timnufc22

Yes, the Academy seems to be going well, and there does need to be perspective in amongst the critisism - it is good to see a lot of potentially promising youngsters coming to the club, its refreshing, and because people aren’t happy with the other aspects it doesn’t mean they cant appreciate more promising aspects. The flip side is the sheer lack of ambition wanting Kinnear long term, and the lack of clarity regarding Wise's role (no-one knows EXACTLY what he does/how much influence he has), which in turn discredits the image of the manager position. The vibe coming out of NUSC imo should be "we do appreciate this and that, and do think this is good to see... on the other hand we still do not know exactly what Dennis Wise' job is, and it is suspicious that is still the case"

No Imo, you know that statement Ashley released when annoucing his vision for the club, but now putting it on the market? It would have helped a lot if he released that, without the putting it on the market bit, a day or two after Keegan went. He could have quite easily done that, and it would have made a difference, but he didnt.

Terrible tacke like. His performance before the sending off was good - he was making some great runs in behind but wasnt picked out, and it was quality awareness to play Lovenkrands in.

Your first statement Coco. This was my first statement: "Who says there'll be losses? If this move gets attendances up to around 50,000 there would be no loss from this season." What's so bad about it? I meant this one "Newcastle drop season ticket prices, Newcastle fans complain, couldn't f***ing make it up, some of you are clowns." Aye, well done then they also announce that Kinnear will be staying on if his health is ok which they except it will be. Give with one hand take with the other. And tbh i would pay more for a season ticket if i knew we would get some progress. And by progress i dont mean finishing 3rd or summik daft like that. So if we buy a few £20m players in summer, then have to put the price up to cover the cost, you wouldn't start a thread on here stating that they're not managing the club correctly? You'd be one of the first to complain tbh. Progress is not confirming Kinnear is there man for the long-term. This more than anything shows the lack of ambition, theres no excuse for it. And if anyone says 'what do you expect them to say', say nothing on the subject other than 'we will all sit down together & it will be sorted out in the summer at a more appropriate time'.

He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. Well, just because we haven't seen his job description doesn't mean a potential manager won't get to discuss it. They'll get to discuss it but I doubt it will change, I honestly when Redknapp came for the interview that was the only reason he didn't take it and, if it wasn't for that we'd have wobbly face as manager now. Even though Redknapp was never actually offered the job? Well he definately had an interview, Keegan knew of the DOF plan when he took over, I'm sure they would have said this to redknapp and he basically would have said he wanted to work of his own accord, like he is at Spurs now. The reason Redknapp never took the job is because he was never actually offered it. That isn't what he says. Problem is, with two prolific self publicists (read: liars) contradicting one another, it's hard to tell where the actual truth is. You know you're getting desperate when you're prepared to believe anything Redknapp says. Retrievable ? The comments were talking about what difference does someone who is "odious" mean, so its a relevant question, as Ozzie Mandias has held a different view of someone else who was supposed to be "odious". Whats different about it ? And why do you insist I answer questions and not others ? FWIW, I don't give a toss if someone is "odious", and that has been my view right down the line, if they perform for the club. I am not anti Denis Wise because he is "odious", I'm anti Denis Wise because he is filling a role I don't think is necessary and also in this role I think he is a hindrance to the chance of recruiting a good manager. I also don't think he's doing as well as some people are making him out to be. What exactly is Wise's role? I believe Kevin Keegan when he says he wasn't allowed to manage the club properly. And I've stated my objection to a DOF at any club, where I think no manager worth their salt would allow anybody else to dictate transfer targets to them. Hope that answers your question To be honest though that's just what you think Keegan wasn't allowed to do and your thoughts on the DoF role in general. It doesn't really tell us exactly what Wise does with regards to recruitment at various levels within the club and what influence he has elsewhere. FWIW I wasn't trying to catch you out. While I'm happy with certain aspects of recruitment, I'm not entirely sure what Wise does or is supposed to do with regards to that and this IMO is half the problem. If his role was finally clarified maybe some people wouldn't have the objections they currently have. Although I know some idiots would still want him out regardless of what the actual facts are. Exactly. Out of anything else, the thing I most wanted to hear in the Llambias Q & A was what SPECIFICALLY does Wise do, and the answer was yet again just a vague description of 'he looks around the world for players'... again, that would mean he's just a scout then? So Why not have the title scout? So its back to square bloody one. A different question of 'Is his role the best thing for NUFC?' seems to have been answered with 'no' - after Llambias confirming they want Kinnear long term. The answer could have been 'yes' if they went out for a better manager, because a better manager coming in in the summer would have backed up Wise's role as a good thing.

He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. Well, just because we haven't seen his job description doesn't mean a potential manager won't get to discuss it. They'll get to discuss it but I doubt it will change, I honestly when Redknapp came for the interview that was the only reason he didn't take it and, if it wasn't for that we'd have wobbly face as manager now. Even though Redknapp was never actually offered the job? Well he definately had an interview, Keegan knew of the DOF plan when he took over, I'm sure they would have said this to redknapp and he basically would have said he wanted to work of his own accord, like he is at Spurs now. The reason Redknapp never took the job is because he was never actually offered it. That isn't what he says. Problem is, with two prolific self publicists (read: liars) contradicting one another, it's hard to tell where the actual truth is. From what I remember, Redknapp was spoken to about whether he'd be interested in the job but claimed that he'd never move from the south coast so taking the job would be out of the question. He wasn't offered the job because we already knew that he'd refuse it, but he was sounded out. Harry was approached big time. He confirms here he was approached and the 'system' was put to him: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7596038.stm

Isnt this confirmation they have no ambition, and that the 'manager's' poisition in this system is not a credible one?

So, a 'yes man' position it is then... ? Shambolic.

And if not? A question to you and the open forum. The appointment of the right manager is the biggest thing Ashley can do, and where ambition can be judged on - where the actually position can then be looked upon as a credible one. And where Wise's role would also seem more credible. I want to believe they have good ambitions, but the fact they offered Kinnear 2 years makes that very hard to believe and can only make me think they want a yes man. But again, prove me & everyone else wrong in the summer, I'm willing & want to see him do that.

I am uncomfortable with Wise's role as it seems. Youth players? Brillaint, nothing wrong with that, good stuff & a refreshing change on trying to get the youth side right. Recruiting players for the first team? First of all, if that is what he does do, or has input in that side anyway, why didnt Derek Llambias club confirm this in his Q & A? Talking about players we have signed - a lot have been good yes, but we have also went into the season short on players & threadbare in some positions. This means the 'recruitment' has not exactly been a big success! And finally, I personally do not like the idea of a DOF having input & say about 1st team recruitment with the manager because a) I think there would always inevietable disagreements between DOF & manager and b) The manager lives & die's on results, he should have total control on the tools he chooses to have to gain those results - he gets sacked, the DOF dosent. But questions need to be asked for more details/confirmation on Dennis Wise's influence at the club, rather than straight 'Ashley/Wise Out' banners.

Screams 'no ambition'. I think its good to hear from Llambias finally, and its a start for better communication hopefully, so I think the academy side of things is good, and its refreshing to see young 17/18yr olds bieng snapped up, good for the future Also you can obviously understand the financial position - the wages are a bit of a killer, and the resession compouds things, so that obviously has to be acknowledged. The negatives for me; Dennis' Wise role - its still not clear Fair enough if its legal reasons etc (although would that not have been mentioned?). If his job is to 'look for players around the world', is his position not then a scout? If so, why not have the title 'scout'? "but thats not all he does so it wouldnt reflect his position"... so why didnt Llambias explain what else he does in his position!! Why does it have to be so bloody murky?? Its just really an uneasy position to have at the club for me. Joe Kinnear is who they wanted. Ok, if the manager's position is not one that comes with interference, and not a bit of a 'yes-man' job then why would the club not want to prove that and allay any doubts about that (of which there a many) by having the vision & ambition to search & try to appoint a good good manager? With respect the fact they wanted Kinnear does not give much credibility to the position on offer at all, and it is so so worrying that is their standards, and their mindset. That is the level they are working on, and road they are driving down... what other 'solutions' are they going to come with with down this road?

This. And appointing a good manager would be actions that speak for themselves, so its up to them to do that.

I agree, you never know maybe his attitude will change.

I'm on about more specific midfielders to take over from Butt more or less holding. We need to work Nolan into our play, he makes better runs into the box than Barton, if he can be found he would get more goals than Barton imo.

Not the finished article no way, and needs to add more bite to his game I'd say, but he could be a real quality player imo.

I'd want us to go for him in the summer. He's big, strong, and has an excellent pass on him. He might not get as many games at Spurs especially with Palacious coming in, and if he got his head right with hunger and wanted 1st team football I'd definetely try for him. Wouldnt mind seeing a line up like this next season (if we stay up): __________________________Martins_________Sturridge_____________________ _________________________________Tuncay________________________________ _________________Jonas_________Huddlestone_________Nolan_______________ Enrique_______________Bassong_________________?______________________Beye __________________________________Harper_______________________________ Sturridge again from Man City, chances will probably be limited, whenever I've seen him he looks potentially class, big lad, good skill. Tuncay could play that role just behind perfectly too. I still like Collocini, its just he's not the best in the air. Could still be a good player for us over the years, and him & Bassong could be a good partnership.

Or "Jose EnrIque!" clap clap, clap clap, clap... "Nobby Solano!" style.

Look at the Hull game, after the FACT statement, there was nothing at all the week leading up to the game, nothing. Nothing about plans to moving forward etc, the system etc.

He's a c**t. Just because he bigs us (the fans) up in the press doesn't mean his agenda is anything other than s*** stirring and feeding off scandal. And since when did NUSC become 'an official well run supporters club'?! I agree on some of the stuff he's wrote, especially the lack of communication, but other than anger and frustration he hasn't got any answers, same as most of the NUSC. I'm sick of hearing the same vague things from everyone about how we need to be 'treated with more respect' and all that bollocks. No regime in living memory has ever treated the fans with anything that could be called 'respect', especially not Freddy Shepherd... what we really mean is 'we'd like to be higher up the table please'. I wouldnt say its 'we'd like to be higher in the table', fans just want to see ambition surley. And no that does not mean spending loads & loads, yes the wages are acknowledged. I mean ambition by looking to get a better manager in - hearing Kinnear has been offered a contract worries people and dosent give the manager position much credibility if someone who has won 4 games is appointed. If Dennis Wise's role is nothing but helpful, surley there are good manager's who would want that? And talking about Wise, fans just want to know what specifically he does. Because they kinda have just seen a legend leave because of interference and Wise kinda has the title 'director of football'! Fans have just wanted the Chairman to communicate just thoughts on the football side, and his plans, his thinking.

To simply enforce the message that we do not accept the treatment given to us & the running of the club. Aye, but what do you want to happen as a result of it? That's the point. And how are you going to design a protest that actually achieves those outcomes? Otherwise it's just blowing hot air. For him to know that most have the same feeling towards him and for him know full-well that the fans want the club to be run in a much better way, to put pressure on him to do that, to get him to explain Wise's role, to get better people than bloody Llambias in, and also if he's not willing to change to put pressure on for him to sell if there are interest parties if we make life uncomfortable. Obviously theres for credit crunch (the club potentially having Premiership status in the summer makes it more attractive), so people arnt stupid, we know its a lot tougher to find buyers, but its not impossbile someone *might* come along and show an interest, you just dont know for certain. so, to put pressure on him to make 10's of millions of pounds loss then, in a nutshell? you dont know no-one would come in with an offer which isnt a loss, if he dosent change his ways and the fans are still with total contempt than yes I'd like to see pressure on him to sell at a loss. know what you're saying but there is simply no chance in hell he's getting his money back, none as long as we stay up the strength of feeling toward him from the masses won't reach fever pitch imo, go down different story...just don't see what any protest is going to realistically achieve I think once media get hold of things, and the microscope is put firmly over certain area's, then the chances of a change are better. Like on skysports, its never mentioned; what is Dennis Wise's role, if they covered report of a protest (or constant protests) of people asking that, then it would be discussed in the media a lot more, and there would be a lot more pressure to explain things for example. Nothings for certain, and the chances of change arnt exactly stacked in our favour, but you've gotta at least try imo.

To simply enforce the message that we do not accept the treatment given to us & the running of the club. Aye, but what do you want to happen as a result of it? That's the point. And how are you going to design a protest that actually achieves those outcomes? Otherwise it's just blowing hot air. For him to know that most have the same feeling towards him and for him know full-well that the fans want the club to be run in a much better way, to put pressure on him to do that, to get him to explain Wise's role, to get better people than bloody Llambias in, and also if he's not willing to change to put pressure on for him to sell if there are interest parties if we make life uncomfortable. Obviously theres for credit crunch (the club potentially having Premiership status in the summer makes it more attractive), so people arnt stupid, we know its a lot tougher to find buyers, but its not impossbile someone *might* come along and show an interest, you just dont know for certain. so, to put pressure on him to make 10's of millions of pounds loss then, in a nutshell? you dont know no-one would come in with an offer which isnt a loss, if he dosent change his ways and the fans are still with total contempt than yes I'd like to see pressure on him to sell at a loss.

To simply enforce the message that we do not accept the treatment given to us & the running of the club. Aye, but what do you want to happen as a result of it? That's the point. And how are you going to design a protest that actually achieves those outcomes? Otherwise it's just blowing hot air. For him to know that most have the same feeling towards him and for him know full-well that the fans want the club to be run in a much better way, to put pressure on him to do that, to get him to explain Wise's role, to get better people than bloody Llambias in, and also if he's not willing to change to put pressure on for him to sell if there are interest parties if we make life uncomfortable. Obviously theres for credit crunch (the club potentially having Premiership status in the summer makes it more attractive), so people arnt stupid, we know its a lot tougher to find buyers, but its not impossbile someone *might* come along and show an interest, you just dont know for certain.

Agreed and that should be what is being said, I'm sure more would get involved if that was the case. I think the thinking is that most are against the whole structure, and who put the strucure in there in the first place? Ashley, so its Ashley out... But yes, I agree the sentiment about the structure should be forced home.

So it's not Ashley out, it might be worth getting that message across. It might be easier to get a dialogue going with the club if it didn’t come across as Ashley out. Yes fair point, its about the whole structure.