Mole_Toonfan Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would be genuinely shocked if Sissoko & Wijnaldum could play in CM 2 together. I think they could if we actually pressed as a team, but coaching that into the players would take time and even if the coaches had the nous to pull it off it's something you teach the players during pre season and not after an abysmal start bordering on crisis. Don't really think we've got the players to press high at all. Too weak at the back and susceptible to longer balls. I think they could play together, if they showed any defensive appetite for the game. Sissoko defends selectively and Wijnaldum is adapting. Why i said as a team.... if you press properly then their should be very space in between the lines and thus difficult for teams to look up and play a pass. Sure you might be susceptible to a ball over the top but if you are doing it right there should be very little space between each line ( aka defense, midfield and attack) We can't do it now obviously, but i think it could work but it would take time. If you look at say Dortmund, i wouldn't particularly say Subotic and Hummels are ideal for a pressing game either in a lot of ways but hey it works because they press properly and don't allow for much space in between each section of the team and there is rarely an occasion when there's more than 30 yards between the CB and the CF. I'm talking in hypothetical here though as it's obvious it wouldn't work straight away and for something like this it would have had to been tested in pre season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would be genuinely shocked if Sissoko & Wijnaldum could play in CM 2 together. I think they could if we actually pressed as a team, but coaching that into the players would take time and even if the coaches had the nous to pull it off it's something you teach the players during pre season and not after an abysmal start bordering on crisis. Don't really think we've got the players to press high at all. Too weak at the back and susceptible to longer balls. I think they could play together, if they showed any defensive appetite for the game. Sissoko defends selectively and Wijnaldum is adapting. I'm not far from thinking we should give it a go. But I just can't see it working. Sissoko is too undisciplined defensively. I don't think it'll work either but it's better than having one of Anita/Colback. For all the stick the midgets do get, they actually do put the effort in off the ball. If Sissoko-Wijnaldum displayed that, it'd be a big help, even if they're not positionally any good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 At least he only has a 3 year contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would be genuinely shocked if Sissoko & Wijnaldum could play in CM 2 together. I think they could if we actually pressed as a team, but coaching that into the players would take time and even if the coaches had the nous to pull it off it's something you teach the players during pre season and not after an abysmal start bordering on crisis. Don't really think we've got the players to press high at all. Too weak at the back and susceptible to longer balls. I think they could play together, if they showed any defensive appetite for the game. Sissoko defends selectively and Wijnaldum is adapting. Why i said as a team.... if you press properly then their should be very space in between the lines and thus difficult for teams to look up and play a pass. Sure you might be susceptible to a ball over the top but if you are doing it right there should be very little space between each line ( aka defense, midfield and attack) We can't do it now obviously, but i think it could work but it would take time. If you look at say Dortmund, i wouldn't particularly say Subotic and Hummels are ideal for a pressing game either in a lot of ways but hey it works because they press properly and don't allow for much space in between each section of the team and there is rarely an occasion when there's more than 30 yards between the CB and the CF. The goals we've conceded in the last 3 games have all come from long balls, not play through the lines, which is why I don't think pressing and encouraging players to move higher up the pitch will work for us. It also requires players with a high work ethic off the ball, barely any of our lot show that. Hummels and Subotic are physical players that can win long passes, are excellent readers of the game and generally play against less physical forwards, we're a world away from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 He wants to fuck off being a Pardew-style cunt with this 4-2-3-1 bollocks thinking we're Chelsea or Barcelona and do whatever he can to get the players onside. The blame lies at the top with Mike Ashley for everything and his rotten cost-cutting and uncaring attitude towards our club is what spreads the 'poison' through it, not the likes of Cisse and Tiote. Feel bad for McClaren but he was never the man for us and a totally underwhelming appointment, but could you really see someone like Vieira or Paco Jemez being a yes man? The fat cunt at the top is the problem and the one causing all of the heartache for the fans, he needs to get in the fucking sea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If love to be a fly on the wall at the training ground over the next few days. Sounds like it's absolutely toxic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 He doesn't seem to be getting that much support in the national media. Guess a failed England manager is never forgiven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Sissoko created our only 2 real chances against Watford. The Cisse miss and the goal. Let's bench him then. LOL. there's such a thing as the greater good, because he sporadically creates the odd chance in a sea of shit it doesn't mean he's the best thing for the team overall tbh against chelsea and citeh i'd probably not drop him on reflection but they have to be his last chances to put in a game influencing performance imo, if he can't do it then he should get to fuck back 5 thauvin sissoko wijnaldum aarons perez mitrovic we've got to change something man, he's been playing the same players and formation for months and funnily enough changing neither is not working What is the greater good? Leaving everything up to Janmaat to create? Wijnaldum, Colback, Thauvin should all be dropped before Sissoko based on performances The greater good is playing a player might integrate better with the team. At the risk of sounding all TCD Sissoko is little more than an athlete who can transition play quickly, but he doesn't do it consistently enough to warrant his place in the team without the fear of being dropped imo. 3 years he's been right? More or less come January. He's no better than the day we signed him, worse in fact. I'd be interested to know your grand solution because for me picking the same players who do the same shit week in week out in a poor formation that complements nobody is just madness. He's got to send a message at some point or they'll just keep coasting and picking up wages. Why wouldn't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Sissoko created our only 2 real chances against Watford. The Cisse miss and the goal. Let's bench him then. LOL. there's such a thing as the greater good, because he sporadically creates the odd chance in a sea of shit it doesn't mean he's the best thing for the team overall tbh against chelsea and citeh i'd probably not drop him on reflection but they have to be his last chances to put in a game influencing performance imo, if he can't do it then he should get to fuck back 5 thauvin sissoko wijnaldum aarons perez mitrovic we've got to change something man, he's been playing the same players and formation for months and funnily enough changing neither is not working What is the greater good? Leaving everything up to Janmaat to create? Wijnaldum, Colback, Thauvin should all be dropped before Sissoko based on performances The greater good is playing a player might integrate better with the team. At the risk of sounding all TCD Sissoko is little more than an athlete who can transition play quickly, but he doesn't do it consistently enough to warrant his place in the team without the fear of being dropped imo. 3 years he's been right? More or less come January. He's no better than the day we signed him, worse in fact. I'd be interested to know your grand solution because for me picking the same players who do the same shit week in week out in a poor formation that complements nobody is just madness. He's got to send a message at some point or they'll just keep coasting and picking up wages. Why wouldn't they? Honestly what I think we should do is focus all our attacks down the right flank with Sissoko and Janmaat and then let the rest of our attacking players get into the box or just on the edge of the area for a cross/cut back. Once we started doing this against Watford we started actually looking like we might score Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Sissoko created our only 2 real chances against Watford. The Cisse miss and the goal. Let's bench him then. LOL. there's such a thing as the greater good, because he sporadically creates the odd chance in a sea of shit it doesn't mean he's the best thing for the team overall tbh against chelsea and citeh i'd probably not drop him on reflection but they have to be his last chances to put in a game influencing performance imo, if he can't do it then he should get to fuck back 5 thauvin sissoko wijnaldum aarons perez mitrovic we've got to change something man, he's been playing the same players and formation for months and funnily enough changing neither is not working What is the greater good? Leaving everything up to Janmaat to create? Wijnaldum, Colback, Thauvin should all be dropped before Sissoko based on performances The greater good is playing a player might integrate better with the team. At the risk of sounding all TCD Sissoko is little more than an athlete who can transition play quickly, but he doesn't do it consistently enough to warrant his place in the team without the fear of being dropped imo. 3 years he's been right? More or less come January. He's no better than the day we signed him, worse in fact. I'd be interested to know your grand solution because for me picking the same players who do the same shit week in week out in a poor formation that complements nobody is just madness. He's got to send a message at some point or they'll just keep coasting and picking up wages. Why wouldn't they? Honestly what I think we should do is focus all our attacks down the right flank with Sissoko and Janmaat and then let the rest of our attacking players get into the box or just on the edge of the area for a cross/cut back. Once we started doing this against Watford we started actually looking like we might score Well, that's a tactical masterstroke right there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 We could have had loads of quality managers over the summer if they'd been told we'd be spending 50 million. Can't believe it. We need to act soon or those players value will be fuck all come the end of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If love to be a fly on the wall at the training ground over the next few days. Sounds like it's absolutely toxic. I think it would be pretty boring, with players just ignoring McClaren and having a kick about among themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would be genuinely shocked if Sissoko & Wijnaldum could play in CM 2 together. I think they could if we actually pressed as a team, but coaching that into the players would take time and even if the coaches had the nous to pull it off it's something you teach the players during pre season and not after an abysmal start bordering on crisis. Don't really think we've got the players to press high at all. Too weak at the back and susceptible to longer balls. I think they could play together, if they showed any defensive appetite for the game. Sissoko defends selectively and Wijnaldum is adapting. We don't press at all though. The only player pressing and tackling back last night was frigging Obertan!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Vieira (who I didn't want like but obviously would have took over McClaren for the craic) and Garde just show that they're openly taking the piss tbh. They had no interest in signing either yet they obviously knew they were names which would excite the fans. It's the same with putting bids in at the final hour which are obviously going to get turned down. They're about as smart as Young Kenny was in Phoenix Nights when he wrote the pub quiz answers on his arm, despite not knowing the questions. :lol: I can imagine the conversation come May time: "You forgot to read our team out!" "Were you Stevie Mc, Lee and Mike?" "Yeah" "You came twentieth." "Out of how many?" "Twenty." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Vieira (who I didn't want like but obviously would have took over McClaren for the craic) and Garde just show that they're openly taking the p*ss tbh. They had no interest in signing either yet they obviously knew they were names which would excite the fans. It's the same with putting bids in at the final hour which are obviously going to get turned down. They're about as smart as Young Kenny was in Phoenix Nights when he wrote the pub quiz answers on his arm, despite not knowing the questions. :lol: I can imagine the conversation come May time: "You forgot to read our team out!" "Were you Stevie Mc, Lee and Mike?" "Yeah" "You came twentieth." "Out of how many?" "Twenty." That episode, man. Brilliant. "The answer was The Shroud of Turin" "What did we have?" "Lisa Stansfield" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Our current pressing is disgusting like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgeousgeorge Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Everything last night was just so slow. Anita dropping between the CB and passing sideways from left to right and then back again. No one making any runs, other than Perez when he came on. At one point we were attacking in the first half and De Jong was walking towards their goal with his back to play not even looking or making any effort. Thauvin has no confidence at all and could pass at all last night. I don't get where this 'toxic' dressing room has come from and how we are again a club in crisis after a decent point against Southampton and Man U. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Everything last night was just so slow. Anita dropping between the CB and passing sideways from left to right and then back again. No one making any runs, other than Perez when he came on. At one point we were attacking in the first half and De Jong was walking towards their goal with his back to play not even looking or making any effort. Thauvin has no confidence at all and could pass at all last night. I don't get where this 'toxic' dressing room has come from and how we are again a club in crisis after a decent point against Southampton and Man U. Aye, the ball hit De Jong on the back didn't it? That's when my young un called him rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Everything last night was just so slow. Anita dropping between the CB and passing sideways from left to right and then back again. No one making any runs, other than Perez when he came on. At one point we were attacking in the first half and De Jong was walking towards their goal with his back to play not even looking or making any effort. Thauvin has no confidence at all and could pass at all last night. I don't get where this 'toxic' dressing room has come from and how we are again a club in crisis after a decent point against Southampton and Man U. its toxic in the sense that the majority of them don't give a shit if we win or lose it seems Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickMack Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I was there last night. I travelled a couple of hundred miles before and after the game, maybe not as far as the wednesday fans, but i came alone. I thought i would be more mad than i am. What i saw was a team in transition. I thought the best players on the pitch were Anita, Williamson and Lascelles. I know these are players usually associated with being blamed/hated, but you could clearly see these were the players following their instructions. Anita dropping back between the centerbacks, with them two clearly instructed to give wee Vurn the ball and not just launch it forward. He had the ball for most the match, everything went through him. The problem lied in that Willo and Lascelles were the only real ones showing for it, getting into space pulling out wide, clearly doing as asked. Gary Neville and co could probably slate Anita for not creating anything of note, but its not his job. i thought he was excellent. The front 5 were static and predictable. Zero movement. You could see him looking for the pass but no-one wanted it. Maybe Obertan looked the only one willing to offer a run, just not often enough. I agree it doesnt look pretty at the moment, but the huge difference between our style of play now compared to the last 3 years is a positive in my eyes. Next step is to get the front 5 moving, its just going to take time. Which will ultimately tell us if McClaren is up to the job or not. But its far far too early to make that call. Poor result against poor opposition, but small signs change. Get the feeling it will get much worse before it gets better, but theres a feeling of hope somewhere deep within, which hasnt been present for quite some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If love to be a fly on the wall at the training ground over the next few days. Sounds like it's absolutely toxic. It's like we've gone back in time 6 months Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would be genuinely shocked if Sissoko & Wijnaldum could play in CM 2 together. I think they could if we actually pressed as a team, but coaching that into the players would take time and even if the coaches had the nous to pull it off it's something you teach the players during pre season and not after an abysmal start bordering on crisis. Don't really think we've got the players to press high at all. Too weak at the back and susceptible to longer balls. I think they could play together, if they showed any defensive appetite for the game. Sissoko defends selectively and Wijnaldum is adapting. We don't press at all though. The only player pressing and tackling back last night was frigging Obertan!! We have pressed at times this season and got absolutely shredded because our centre is so weak and slow - I don't think it's bad coaching either because I know Cathro worked with them on it in preseason. Tracking men is a problem, aye, but that's a commitment issue from players that don't seem to fancy getting stuck in for a whole game. Our defence hampers us a lot, the only 'success' we seem to have with it is deeper unit defending, but that restricts us going forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would be genuinely shocked if Sissoko & Wijnaldum could play in CM 2 together. I think they could if we actually pressed as a team, but coaching that into the players would take time and even if the coaches had the nous to pull it off it's something you teach the players during pre season and not after an abysmal start bordering on crisis. Don't really think we've got the players to press high at all. Too weak at the back and susceptible to longer balls. I think they could play together, if they showed any defensive appetite for the game. Sissoko defends selectively and Wijnaldum is adapting. We don't press at all though. The only player pressing and tackling back last night was frigging Obertan!! We have pressed at times this season and got absolutely shredded because our centre is so weak and slow - I don't think it's bad coaching either because I know Cathro worked with them on it in preseason. Tracking men is a problem, aye, but that's a commitment issue from players that don't seem to fancy getting stuck in for a whole game. Our defence hampers us a lot, the only 'success' we seem to have with it is deeper unit defending, but that restricts us going forward. Colback can't press properly. Doesn't help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicane Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 What on Earth has gone wrong? I was never behind the McClaren appointment but with the new coaching staff, the likes of Cathro seemingly really fresh and positive, as well as the new signings - actually spending some money - I was somewhat optimistic. Not of achieving anything great this season but at least in terms of seeing improvement and new ideas. But as mentioned, it's like we've gone back to Carver's reign of terror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 What on Earth has gone wrong? I was never behind the McClaren appointment but with the new coaching staff, the likes of Cathro seemingly really fresh and positive, as well as the new signings - actually spending some money - I was somewhat optimistic. Not of achieving anything great this season but at least in terms of seeing improvement and new ideas. But as mentioned, it's like we've gone back to Carver's reign of terror. Seems to me that McClaren didn't realize what he was taking on, and as such has dived into the chicane to fast, and it's all gone wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now