mickthemagpie Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Until the club makes the decision to start to build a team rather than develop assets the identity of the manager is an irrelevance.There will be some variance in results for better or worse but the net result will be the same from one season to the next. Perpetual struggle for survival. As fans that should be intolerable and eventually enough will pack it in to force change. The sooner that happens the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Until the club makes the decision to start to build a team rather than develop assets the identity of the manager is an irrelevance.There will be some variance in results for better or worse but the net result will be the same from one season to the next. Perpetual struggle for survival. As fans that should be intolerable and eventually enough will pack it in to force change. The sooner that happens the better. The problem being the dampening of expectations, the sheep now firmly believe we reside in our expected/belonged place. The media lambast anyone who expects more and have painted us as having unrealistic expectations leaving a lot of us scared to speak up for fear of fitting into their stereotype. Ashley has done a bang up job of slapping us down and keeping us there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Plus I think the whole "Ashley is our saviour" financial revisionism and fear of becoming the next Leeds along with TV interviews talking of a brighter future and learning from mistakes every 2 - 3 years has got a lot fooled. A statement of intent keeps the sheep happy for another year or two. Sacking McClaren is the short term fix, getting in an established leader of a club is intent, not another has-been coach. He'll keep lying, applying what appears to be fixes with hopes of a new dawn and people will keep lapping it up. I admit I for one had a glimmer of hope after Pardew left and was even willing to give it time under McClaren against my better judgement, but it's clear that it's all about keeping the gravy train a-rolling and the sheep sedated. It'll be a long time until our fans turn en mass and even then I can see he'll still have staunch supporters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's the BS about Ashley investing in us this year. A. The money was from within our club. We shouldn't be thankful for spending the money we've generated. B. He's trusted the money, team and club with people that don't know what their doing. Charnley specifically. C. The signings we've made have not been with the best interests of the team. We needed big, physical, quick players that can come in and upgrade us down that spine. But the policy has been focused more on re-sell value and potential. We needed an Ayew, Payet, Shawcross, Moses or Cabaye. Lads in their mid to late 20's to come in and get results now. Didn't do it. SMC can't even bluff his way into some good results ala Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The purchases were pretty cynical - young players with potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think as well that the club has lost the dressing room in the way popular members of the playing squad have been treated personally. A public apology needs to be given to Jonas and Ryan Taylor and Charnley must be removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemagpie Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He spent 50 million in the expectation he'll get 75 million plus back in 1-3 years as a result of the new money that will come flooding into the PL next season. The only thing that has changed is the initial investment has had to be higher. Several of my mates who refused to follow my lead in packing in have turned and won't renew next season. He can't get away with this forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Its an absolute disaster, we are 2 points worse off than what we should be with the fixtures we've had. McClaren out! It's true that we've had a tough start to the season and I did expect us to be near the bottom, but if our aim is top 8-10 we should have had more points from those opening fixtures than the currrent 3, or even the 5 you mention. Realistically I would have said 3 points minimum from Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and City, 3 from Watford and another 3 minimum from Southampton, Swansea and West Ham. So we're about -6 from where you would expect us to be. No reason for outright panic, but the pressure is definitely on and if we don't pick up sharpish we could be down and out before Christmas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I wouldn't have said minimum 3 points against the 4 elite... I wouldn't expect us to win one. Maybe in a bit when we're more comfortable and not so shite. Even a draw against Chelsea was a bonus really. It was the Watford and West Ham that really shafted us, especially with the unusually awful performance against West Ham. TBH this highlights the difficulty of the league right now, there really aren't any games that we can put down as bankers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 That applies to the top teams too though Ian. If one of them has a upcoming fixture list of four teams aiming for midtable like we supposedly are I'd think they would happily take 8-9 points from those 12.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Its an absolute disaster, we are 2 points worse off than what we should be with the fixtures we've had. McClaren out! It's true that we've had a tough start to the season and I did expect us to be near the bottom, but if our aim is top 8-10 we should have had more points from those opening fixtures than the currrent 3, or even the 5 you mention. Realistically I would have said 3 points minimum from Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and City, 3 from Watford and another 3 minimum from Southampton, Swansea and West Ham. So we're about -6 from where you would expect us to be. No reason for outright panic, but the pressure is definitely on and if we don't pick up sharpish we could be down and out before Christmas. Where did you expect and hope we would finish in the league this season at the start? If you're going to finish top 10 you're going to need more than 9 points from those games. If you're going to be comfortably away from relegation, you're going to need more points than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Liverpool is currently 10th on 12 points. Considering our tougher than average start of the season I would say 9 points from those 8 games would have been about on target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Still Here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I wouldn't have said minimum 3 points against the 4 elite... I wouldn't expect us to win one. Maybe in a bit when we're more comfortable and not so shite. Even a draw against Chelsea was a bonus really. It was the Watford and West Ham that really shafted us, especially with the unusually awful performance against West Ham. TBH this highlights the difficulty of the league right now, there really aren't any games that we can put down as bankers. McClaren hasn't had a kind fixture list so we can give him some leeway for the shocking start, but the lack of willingness from the team to put in a full shift for 90 minutes is not going to be tolerated for much longer. I know for a fact that Abeid would ruin his socks off for the full game and McClaren was willing to let him go for peanuts. Looks a shocking decision now and it did even at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. McClaren is on the board now is he not? I think he has to take some responsibility especially as he was happy enough to endorse giving Colo a new contract. If a manager can't keep a player he thinks is important then he's not really a manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The board is a sham to make him seem less like a puppet. Bobby moncur has about as much power on it as a solar powered fan for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. McClaren is on the board now is he not? I think he has to take some responsibility especially as he was happy enough to endorse giving Colo a new contract. If a manager can't keep a player he thinks is important then he's not really a manager. Yeah I'm sure he does, even if it's only symbolic. I just mean that the club wanted to shift Abeid for ages, and McClaren probably didn't have much time to form an opinion on him. Unless he'd said 'stop all sales until January', which in a normal club might have happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. McClaren is on the board now is he not? I think he has to take some responsibility especially as he was happy enough to endorse giving Colo a new contract. If a manager can't keep a player he thinks is important then he's not really a manager. Yeah I'm sure he does, even if it's only symbolic. I just mean that the club wanted to shift Abeid for ages, and McClaren probably didn't have much time to form an opinion on him. Unless he'd said 'stop all sales until January', which in a normal club might have happened. I wish I could understand why the club were so desperate to shift Abeid then. How much did we get for him, 500k or something wasn't it? Yeah I can see why they were so desperate to rake in the cash there like. It's not even as if he's that good a player, but at least you know he would get stuck in for 90 mins and he had the added bonus of not being a 5ft midget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I don't understand either, also don't understand how Pardew was allowed to force out Ben Arfa and Mbiwa. 'Charnley is clueless' is probably the best answer. And something to do with wages vs playing time or something like that. Who knows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It was the Watford and West Ham that really shafted us, especially with the unusually awful performance against West Ham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. McClaren is on the board now is he not? I think he has to take some responsibility especially as he was happy enough to endorse giving Colo a new contract. If a manager can't keep a player he thinks is important then he's not really a manager. Yeah I'm sure he does, even if it's only symbolic. I just mean that the club wanted to shift Abeid for ages, and McClaren probably didn't have much time to form an opinion on him. Unless he'd said 'stop all sales until January', which in a normal club might have happened. I wish I could understand why the club were so desperate to shift Abeid then. How much did we get for him, 500k or something wasn't it? Yeah I can see why they were so desperate to rake in the cash there like. It's not even as if he's that good a player, but at least you know he would get stuck in for 90 mins and he had the added bonus of not being a 5ft midget. I firmly believe it's part of the current political climate to demonize and get rid of all those of an Arab descent: Ben Arfa, Abeid, Ryan Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I guess we'll never know if Remi Garde said 'No thanks', or it's down to Charnley just being a complete tosser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. McClaren is on the board now is he not? I think he has to take some responsibility especially as he was happy enough to endorse giving Colo a new contract. If a manager can't keep a player he thinks is important then he's not really a manager. Yeah I'm sure he does, even if it's only symbolic. I just mean that the club wanted to shift Abeid for ages, and McClaren probably didn't have much time to form an opinion on him. Unless he'd said 'stop all sales until January', which in a normal club might have happened. I wish I could understand why the club were so desperate to shift Abeid then. How much did we get for him, 500k or something wasn't it? Yeah I can see why they were so desperate to rake in the cash there like. It's not even as if he's that good a player, but at least you know he would get stuck in for 90 mins and he had the added bonus of not being a 5ft midget. I firmly believe it's part of the current political climate to demonize and get rid of all those of an Arab descent: Ben Arfa, Abeid, Ryan Taylor. SyRyan Taylor I believe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh yeah, I always thought it was mad to sell Abeid. Not sure how much McClaren would have had to do with it mind, seemed like the club was set on getting rid of him for months. McClaren is on the board now is he not? I think he has to take some responsibility especially as he was happy enough to endorse giving Colo a new contract. If a manager can't keep a player he thinks is important then he's not really a manager. Yeah I'm sure he does, even if it's only symbolic. I just mean that the club wanted to shift Abeid for ages, and McClaren probably didn't have much time to form an opinion on him. Unless he'd said 'stop all sales until January', which in a normal club might have happened. I wish I could understand why the club were so desperate to shift Abeid then. How much did we get for him, 500k or something wasn't it? Yeah I can see why they were so desperate to rake in the cash there like. It's not even as if he's that good a player, but at least you know he would get stuck in for 90 mins and he had the added bonus of not being a 5ft midget. I firmly believe it's part of the current political climate to demonize and get rid of all those of an Arab descent: Ben Arfa, Abeid, Ryan Taylor. SyRyan Taylor I believe One more refugee over the wall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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