Anderson Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Him and his brother are clearly shrewd businessmen a class apart from Ashley and his cronies, his brother is the 9th richest in the world while Anil lingers around the 100 mark. Their Reliance company seems to be massive in Asia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I think the club has always been for sale, it's simply a case of someone offering the right price. The biggest issue is what happens to the much discussed Ashley debt. That's really a very small issue. It ceases to exist. Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 since when was ambani a fan? If he really was a fan and his interest is real then I would have to think about it. Had it have been anyone with millions/billions then I would be against it, but does he have the clubs best interest at heart? Can he build the club in order for it to challenge/succeed the right way?, can it at the same time work well with his other business's and be profitable? Will our profile in Asia soar? Will he back the manager and let him get on the job an not take the limelight? If the answer is yes to all of these then I see no reason for concern, but we don't know these things for sure, and also their is also the small question regarding reports of his interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I think the club has always been for sale, it's simply a case of someone offering the right price. The biggest issue is what happens to the much discussed Ashley debt. That's really a very small issue. It ceases to exist. Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? That depends on what he sells the club for, the numbers being talked about are £200m+ Of course they're just rumours, but that's all we've got to go on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? It doesn't really matter about the intercompany debt. A price for the club will ignore this 'debt'. For various reasons a buyer may actually repay this debt, or it may be cancelled and more paid for the equity of the club, usually depending on the tax situation of the companies (I am no tax expert!). It's like me offering you £10 for your empty wallet or £70 if you leave £60 in it. The net consideration is the same. To assess if something is debt or equity you need to look at the risks and rewards- all of which in this case reside with Ashley. This is tax-efficient equity, nothing more. Forget about 'loans to Ashley'- that's like saying I owe myself a fiver. What should be in no doubt is that following any serious takeover, the club will not owe a penny to any Ashley vehicle. Equally it might owe £200-250m to a new holdco, but the same rationale applies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I think the club has always been for sale, it's simply a case of someone offering the right price. The biggest issue is what happens to the much discussed Ashley debt. That's really a very small issue. It ceases to exist. Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? That depends on what he sells the club for, the numbers being talked about are £200m+ Of course they're just rumours, but that's all we've got to go on. Agree we are discussing nothing other than rumour here. But if the price of £200 million is to buy the club and the debt remains repayable then Ashley makes a profit of £62 million. If the total price is £200 million and the debt is written off then, based on the last reported figures, Ashley makes a loss off at least £76 million. So I was just making the point that the treatment of the debt is fundamental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? It doesn't really matter about the intercompany debt. A price for the club will ignore this 'debt'. For various reasons a buyer may actually repay this debt, or it may be cancelled and more paid for the equity of the club, usually depending on the tax situation of the companies (I am no tax expert!). It's like me offering you £10 for your empty wallet or £70 if you leave £60 in it. The net consideration is the same. To assess if something is debt or equity you need to look at the risks and rewards- all of which in this case reside with Ashley. This is tax-efficient equity, nothing more. Forget about 'loans to Ashley'- that's like saying I owe myself a fiver. What should be in no doubt is that following any serious takeover, the club will not owe a penny to any Ashley vehicle. Equally it might owe £200-250m to a new holdco, but the same rationale applies. However you dress it up, based on the most recent information, Ashley has invested about £276 million in the club. This consists of £138m he paid for it and £138m he loaned to it. Regardless of corporate structures, new holdcos, tax efficiency etc the fact is that unless he gets £276 million out of a sale, however that sale is structured, he will have lost money out of owning the club. As I said above £200 million for the club with the debt remaining repayable = a profit for Ashley. £200 million for the club with the debt written off = a loss for Ashley. When you buy or sell a business you do so with all the assets and liabilities included, and debt (to whoever it is owed) is prima facie a liability of any business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Surely he's not expecting a profit? I'd say getting £200m, loss or not, would be a very decent result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ambani was a lot richer the first time this story did the rounds. http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/610/capturemm.png Ouch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Surely he's not expecting a profit? I'd say getting £200m, loss or not, would be a very decent result. You might think so given where we've been in recent times. But the reality is that none of us can really have a clue what Ashley expects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ambani was a lot richer the first time this story did the rounds. http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/610/capturemm.png Ouch. How on earth did it jump up and down so much one year? He win the Lottery every week in 2008? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 That graph is all over the place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ambani was a lot richer the first time this story did the rounds. http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/610/capturemm.png Ouch. love to read his 2008-09 diary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? It doesn't really matter about the intercompany debt. A price for the club will ignore this 'debt'. For various reasons a buyer may actually repay this debt, or it may be cancelled and more paid for the equity of the club, usually depending on the tax situation of the companies (I am no tax expert!). It's like me offering you £10 for your empty wallet or £70 if you leave £60 in it. The net consideration is the same. To assess if something is debt or equity you need to look at the risks and rewards- all of which in this case reside with Ashley. This is tax-efficient equity, nothing more. Forget about 'loans to Ashley'- that's like saying I owe myself a fiver. What should be in no doubt is that following any serious takeover, the club will not owe a penny to any Ashley vehicle. Equally it might owe £200-250m to a new holdco, but the same rationale applies. However you dress it up, based on the most recent information, Ashley has invested about £276 million in the club. This consists of £138m he paid for it and £138m he loaned to it. Regardless of corporate structures, new holdcos, tax efficiency etc the fact is that unless he gets £276 million out of a sale, however that sale is structured, he will have lost money out of owning the club. As I said above £200 million for the club with the debt remaining repayable = a profit for Ashley. £200 million for the club with the debt written off = a loss for Ashley. When you buy or sell a business you do so with all the assets and liabilities included, and debt (to whoever it is owed) is prima facie a liability of any business. do you think it would be put that way, not more of 'this price for the lot' type scenario ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I think the club has always been for sale, it's simply a case of someone offering the right price. The biggest issue is what happens to the much discussed Ashley debt. That's really a very small issue. It ceases to exist. Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? That depends on what he sells the club for, the numbers being talked about are £200m+ Of course they're just rumours, but that's all we've got to go on. Agree we are discussing nothing other than rumour here. But if the price of £200 million is to buy the club and the debt remains repayable then Ashley makes a profit of £62 million. If the total price is £200 million and the debt is written off then, based on the last reported figures, Ashley makes a loss off at least £76 million. So I was just making the point that the treatment of the debt is fundamental. Or £200m with £76m staying as debt. Not that I believe the likes of Ambani would want or need to leave a debt to Ashley in the clubs accounts. AFAIK the rumour is £200-£250m, but again its just journalists suggesting a price out of thin air IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Him and his brother are clearly shrewd businessmen a class apart from Ashley and his cronies, his brother is the 9th richest in the world while Anil lingers around the 100 mark. Their Reliance company seems to be massive in Asia. If he was a shrewd businessman and a fan he would probably have bought Newcastle for a relative pittance when we got relegated and useless wankers like Barry Moat were being touted. But then it's all relative. Maybe at even double the price it's still a pittance for the likes of him and now as a premier league club he sees something he can work with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Him and his brother are clearly shrewd businessmen a class apart from Ashley and his cronies, his brother is the 9th richest in the world while Anil lingers around the 100 mark. Their Reliance company seems to be massive in Asia. If he was a shrewd businessman and a fan he would probably have bought Newcastle for a relative pittance when we got relegated and useless wankers like Barry Moat were being touted. But then it's all relative. Maybe at even double the price it's still a pittance for the likes of him and now as a premier league club he sees something he can work with. "Shrewd" businessmen don't buy football clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Him and his brother are clearly shrewd businessmen a class apart from Ashley and his cronies, his brother is the 9th richest in the world while Anil lingers around the 100 mark. Their Reliance company seems to be massive in Asia. If he was a shrewd businessman and a fan he would probably have bought Newcastle for a relative pittance when we got relegated and useless wankers like Barry Moat were being touted. But then it's all relative. Maybe at even double the price it's still a pittance for the likes of him and now as a premier league club he sees something he can work with. "Shrewd" businessmen don't buy football clubs. they do, but not if they want to run them as a business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Where does it come from that he's a "fan"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Him and his brother are clearly shrewd businessmen a class apart from Ashley and his cronies, his brother is the 9th richest in the world while Anil lingers around the 100 mark. Their Reliance company seems to be massive in Asia. If he was a shrewd businessman and a fan he would probably have bought Newcastle for a relative pittance when we got relegated and useless wankers like Barry Moat were being touted. But then it's all relative. Maybe at even double the price it's still a pittance for the likes of him and now as a premier league club he sees something he can work with. "Shrewd" businessmen don't buy football clubs. they do, but not if they want to run them as a business. Well yes, they do if they already have near-infinite money and just want to find away to piss it all away before the die. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 the only way i see this having resurfaced is due to the indians buying Blackburn it's either (a) got some journalist excited or (b) got the guy ambani interested enough to start looking for a club to buy himself or © the whole thing is total horseshit i'm going for © personally i reckon we should all just accept MA here for say the next 10 years and start chanting his name at the matches and shit, write nice things about him on the internets etc...that way he'll be forced to follow his own rules and do the absolute opposite of common sense and fuck off into the sunset Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Does it? There were rumours that he was prepared to write the debt off when the Moat deal was in the air. But even if that were true then, the situation is different now - so you are saying that Mike is prepared to write off £138 million of debt (at the last count) in order to get the club sold? And is approximately half of what he has invested really just a small issue? It doesn't really matter about the intercompany debt. A price for the club will ignore this 'debt'. For various reasons a buyer may actually repay this debt, or it may be cancelled and more paid for the equity of the club, usually depending on the tax situation of the companies (I am no tax expert!). It's like me offering you £10 for your empty wallet or £70 if you leave £60 in it. The net consideration is the same. To assess if something is debt or equity you need to look at the risks and rewards- all of which in this case reside with Ashley. This is tax-efficient equity, nothing more. Forget about 'loans to Ashley'- that's like saying I owe myself a fiver. What should be in no doubt is that following any serious takeover, the club will not owe a penny to any Ashley vehicle. Equally it might owe £200-250m to a new holdco, but the same rationale applies. However you dress it up, based on the most recent information, Ashley has invested about £276 million in the club. This consists of £138m he paid for it and £138m he loaned to it. Regardless of corporate structures, new holdcos, tax efficiency etc the fact is that unless he gets £276 million out of a sale, however that sale is structured, he will have lost money out of owning the club. As I said above £200 million for the club with the debt remaining repayable = a profit for Ashley. £200 million for the club with the debt written off = a loss for Ashley. When you buy or sell a business you do so with all the assets and liabilities included, and debt (to whoever it is owed) is prima facie a liability of any business. do you think it would be put that way, not more of 'this price for the lot' type scenario ? No idea on that, it would all depend on the preference of the parties to the deal and that would probably be dictated by their respective tax positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Would welcome Ambani as our new owner. Hopefully the popular belief that "Ashley will only sell us when he gets his money back" will be tested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Anil Ambani's bid to buy Newcastle United from Mike Ashley ... 3 Aug 2008 ... A possible £260 million takeover of Newcastle United by the sixth richest man in the world is set to gather momentum. www.telegraph.co.uk/.../football/.../Anil-Ambanis-bid-to-buy-Newcastle-United-from-Mike-Ashley-football.html Everton in takeover talks with Anil Ambani: Football - Telegraph 30 Sep 2008 ... Indian billionaire Anil Ambani has been linked with a ... www.telegraph.co.uk/.../football/.../Everton-in-takeover-talks-with-Anil-Ambani-Football.html Show more results from telegraph.co.uk Anil Ambani 'deadly serious' about buying Newcastle United - Money ... 4 Aug 2008 ... Anil Ambani is expected to make a series of proposals to the owners of English Premier League football club Newscastle United in a possible ... www.dnaindia.com › MONEY - Cached - Similar Anil Ambani - CleanSheetsAllRound.co.uk 12 Mar 2011 ... Football Rumours, Football Gossip and Football Features ... Indian billionaire Anil Ambani has targeted a possible takeover of Newcastle ... www.cleansheetsallround.co.uk/tag/anil-ambani - Cached Indian Tycoon Anil Ambani sets his sights on buying Everton ... 13 Sep 2008 ... He said he had asked Keith Harris, a "Mr Fix it" of the football ... According to Forbes, Anil Ambani is the sixth wealthiest man in the ... www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/.../indian-tycoon-anil-ambani-sets-his-sights-on-buying-everton-64375-21809389/ - Cached - Similar Newcastle deny link to Ambani but takeover talk continues ... 4 Aug 2008... with the Indian billionaire Anil Ambani reported to have been in ... SOUTH AMERICAN FOOTBALL Listen to our exclusive free podcast | ... www.independent.co.uk › Sport › Football › Transfers - Cached - Similar Anil Ambani - Football Forums Everton 6 posts - 4 authors - Last post: 10 Feb How the hell has this gone under the radar. Apparently, the negotiations have gone on months, but have only just been leaked, and now Billy ... www.footballforums.net/forums/showthread.../271104-Anil-Ambani - Cached Get more discussion results Anil Ambani - Page 24 22 posts - 12 authors - Last post: 31 Jan Anil Ambani - Page 24. ... It may be Ambani, it may be somebody else. ... Football fans support what's going on on the pitch, ... www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php?topic=55778.690 Pile of shite if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Ashley does want out IMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now