Would you take 17th place right now ?

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Survival will do till we can push on with a new owner. It seems like we may be in a relegation battle now, but if Viduka/Martins get fit and with Barton coming back in things will pick up I feel.

[TRon]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

You're failing to realise (or admit) that when we stopped qualifying for Europe, Shepherd tightened the purse strings as well. When the money's already been spent you can't automatically conjure it from nowhere. The season Bowyer was signed, how much did we spend even though we were in the Champions League? Fuck all is the answer I believe.

 

The season when Souness left and the players miraculously reached Europe, how much was given to Roeder? Was the squad strong enough then to compete for honours because I'd love to see you attempt to argue it was?

 

9m.

 

The rest of the post isn't advocating spending money we don't have or setting up the club so it needs to stay in the Champions League is it, like Leeds did  ?

 

 

I don't know, how much money have we got? To be "punching our weight" as one of the biggest clubs in the country to match our gate will take some serious investment. A lot more than previously, since Abramovich and now City's Arabs have entered the scene. So where is it going to come from? I don't think you gave an answer to that.

 

Who was the £9m spent on btw? I thought we only signed Bowyer that summer?

 

You also failed to answer whether we invested enough money in the squad the season after Roeder was given the job. That was a seriously threadbare pool of players so according to your own standards it was criminal not to have spent a hell of a lot more than we did.

[johnnypd]

 

i disagree, in terms of creating a positive buzz there is no better individual in the world than keegan, and getting him on board is something that will keep fans onside, even if the purse strings are tightened. for instance, and im not wanting to misrepresent his views here as he was skeptical of the board before anyone else, but SSR on deadline day said something like "Sunderland may have spent shitloads of money but we've got KK. i think i'd rather be in our situation". Similarly, even though i was disappointed with our window and an Ashley-skeptic, i was still optimistic for the sole reason that we had a good manager. how many signed up for 3 years due to looking forward to a keegan team? i bet had allardyce been in charge the numbers for that wouldve been a tad lower.

 

that it didnt turn out well is more down to the club (and keegan too) not thinking it through properly.

 

Did the club need to placate the fans though?  I can't remember too much dissent when they sacked Allardyce.

 

but at that point it wasn't evident to all that the club were planning to embark on a period of financial frugality. and it's not just about 'placating' but creating positive PR which drums up business and perhaps masks the lack of ambition off the field, which it certainly did for a few months at least.

[Dave]

 

i disagree, in terms of creating a positive buzz there is no better individual in the world than keegan, and getting him on board is something that will keep fans onside, even if the purse strings are tightened. for instance, and im not wanting to misrepresent his views here as he was skeptical of the board before anyone else, but SSR on deadline day said something like "Sunderland may have spent shitloads of money but we've got KK. i think i'd rather be in our situation". Similarly, even though i was disappointed with our window and an Ashley-skeptic, i was still optimistic for the sole reason that we had a good manager. how many signed up for 3 years due to looking forward to a keegan team? i bet had allardyce been in charge the numbers for that wouldve been a tad lower.

 

that it didnt turn out well is more down to the club (and keegan too) not thinking it through properly.

 

Did the club need to placate the fans though?  I can't remember too much dissent when they sacked Allardyce.

 

but at that point it wasn't evident to all that the club were planning to embark on a period of financial frugality. and it's not just about 'placating' but creating positive PR which drums up business and perhaps masks the lack of ambition off the field, which it certainly did for a few months at least.

 

And it sold a lot of three-year season tickets.

[NE5]

NE5 was insisting we were going to get relegated last year as well,

 

eeer.......not quite. I was saying how the club was slipping towards it, due to lack of investment in quality players and seemed to lack the understanding of how to succeed in football. Several things caused these comments, which as you appear to be so informed on what I've posted, I'm sure you will know what they are. Buying nobody in the January window despite our dangerous position was a situation only saved by the optimism and motivation fuelled by the appointment of Keegan.

 

8 months on, and we are nearer than ever. I'm going to be honest here, while we disagreed before, I didn't think you were so gullible as others. You truly have your head in the sand.

 

it's usual form to be honest. That's not to say I don't realise we are in a bad state right now, but some people are using it to get their boot into their favourite whipping boys, when the truth is no one is innocent in this.

 

We need to get a manager in and we need to get some key players back from injury. That made a big difference last time and it will again this time round. Keegan's leaving has cost us points we can't get back, that's the frustrating part of all this.

 

We need to get a manager in, yes. But who do you think is going to come in and how many years do you think the club can go on like this ie setting their sights so low, with no investment in the team, and hope to get back up the top end of the table. This is a serious question, I'm wondering if you can really understand this or not ? If you believe that Ashleys youth policy will pay ultimate dividends, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Even our top players we have will not want to stay at a club like this, and from there you set the ball rolling, in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

The truth of the matter is, I never tell anybody how to spend their money. We have invested big money in players before Ashley came and a lot of it was wasted on sub-standard players. We need major investment in the team I agree, and would love to see it happen. I would say around £100million needs to be spent in fees and wages just to get us in a position to challenge for Europe. The question is where does this come from? Where would you suggest?

 

As for Ashley's youth policy I'm quite sceptical of it as it happens. This latest signing Gonzalez looks a bit slow to me, but I need to see him over 90 mins. It could be Keegan was right when he said he wasn't good enough, and if that's the case it puts a big question mark over the scouting system I've generally been in favour of.

 

FWIW, I will remind you again that for the money we have spent, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams over 15 years, we qualified for the Champions League, reached 2 FA Cup Finals, signed many top class international footballers including a world record signing, doubled the gates, transformed the ground from a rubbish tip into one of the best and biggest grounds in the country and filled it every game, and built a new training complex that had been needed for decades.

 

So, don't make out that the club has taken in pots of money and wasted it all, because it certainly hasn't. If you do, then there lies your own particular problem. You just lack sound judgement and perception, sadly.

 

I only ask that the club punches its weight, in the long run. Which is one of the biggest in the country, and the 3rd biggest gate , courtesy of being built up by the previous board that you slate. Nobody asked Ashley do come in and do an Abramovic, however anybody buying a football club should be aware that it needs to succeed on the pitch in order to generate more money, or keep generating money. Its not good enough to see a club like us needing players and adopting a penny pinching attitude that only the smaller clubs adopt. We have to act bigger than them if we want to be better than them.

 

 

 

You're failing to realise (or admit) that when we stopped qualifying for Europe, Shepherd tightened the purse strings as well. When the money's already been spent you can't automatically conjure it from nowhere. The season Bowyer was signed, how much did we spend even though we were in the Champions League? Fuck all is the answer I believe.

 

The season when Souness left and the players miraculously reached Europe, how much was given to Roeder? Was the squad strong enough then to compete for honours because I'd love to see you attempt to argue it was?

 

9m.

 

The rest of the post isn't advocating spending money we don't have or setting up the club so it needs to stay in the Champions League is it, like Leeds did  ?

 

 

I don't know, how much money have we got? To be "punching our weight" as one of the biggest clubs in the country to match our gate will take some serious investment. A lot more than previously, since Abramovich and now City's Arabs have entered the scene. So where is it going to come from? I don't think you gave an answer to that.

 

Who was the £9m spent on btw? I thought we only signed Bowyer that summer?

 

You also failed to answer whether we invested enough money in the squad the season after Roeder was given the job. That was a seriously threadbare pool of players so according to your own standards it was criminal not to have spent a hell of a lot more than we did.

 

Woodgate in the January, was brought into the club, in advance of the summer ie forward planning etc etc

 

The club had backed its managers for years, they had nothing to prove in that respect. Rightly or wrongly [wrongly in respect that Souness was shit but he was their appointment and they backed him] Roeder paid the price for Souness being handed too much that was spunked away. You can't slate the club for overspending then slate them for reigning the spending in.

 

It was pretty obvious that they realised they had to do that, don't you know this ? In spite of this, they still found the money for Martins, a badly needed striker who's goals saved us from being relegated. Would you - and anyone else like macbeth - say that they should have balanced the books rather than buy Martins.

 

At least he was the managers choice and they backed him when we needed the player badly.

 

And Duff. While people say we had zoggy and Milner, we also had Solano who was getting older, and so at 5m the Duff who had played for Blackburn and signed for Chelsea looked well worth 5m quid.

 

Isn't this more than the club has just spent in the summer just gone ? Shame Keegan felt let down, I'm sure if he hadn't then he'd still be here.

 

 

[johnnypd]

 

i disagree, in terms of creating a positive buzz there is no better individual in the world than keegan, and getting him on board is something that will keep fans onside, even if the purse strings are tightened. for instance, and im not wanting to misrepresent his views here as he was skeptical of the board before anyone else, but SSR on deadline day said something like "Sunderland may have spent shitloads of money but we've got KK. i think i'd rather be in our situation". Similarly, even though i was disappointed with our window and an Ashley-skeptic, i was still optimistic for the sole reason that we had a good manager. how many signed up for 3 years due to looking forward to a keegan team? i bet had allardyce been in charge the numbers for that wouldve been a tad lower.

 

that it didnt turn out well is more down to the club (and keegan too) not thinking it through properly.

 

Did the club need to placate the fans though?  I can't remember too much dissent when they sacked Allardyce.

 

but at that point it wasn't evident to all that the club were planning to embark on a period of financial frugality. and it's not just about 'placating' but creating positive PR which drums up business and perhaps masks the lack of ambition off the field, which it certainly did for a few months at least.

 

And it sold a lot of three-year season tickets.

 

that's not to say it's the only reason he was appointed, but i bet it factored in there somewhere. there was also the reason that ashley felt he wanted a manager who could get the side playing more attractive football (or maybe he was just mimicking what he'd heard on the terraces and thought it was a good commercial move).

[afar]

I've had time to reflect a little on the weekend's results, one thing to take out of the West Ham game is the fact that they are a very average side themselves, there is nothing to be afraid of from them or many other clubs around us.

 

A new manager and a bit of positivity around the club is all we need to ensure that we are playing PL football next season. The team is more than good enough to reach mid table mediocrity, of that despite the injuries, I'm sure.

 

It's not an impossible situation however things have to start happening fast, we can't afford Hughton to be in charge for 3 or 4 more weeks. That's not a dig at the guy, but he's a coach that's all not a manager.

 

The problem is if this state of limbo is allowed to go on for too long, the dynamic changes, those players who just needed direction have become comfortable in a rut, and take more motivation to get them out of it or just remain in their comfort zone and the only option is to sell them.

[Dokko]

i dont think anyone wants to see us relegated but i get what rebelyell means when (s)he says. some people are a bit eager to write us off before a game, and then complain about the situation afterwards

 

no, we are complaining about the situation ahead of it. And thats because we can see it . Blind optimism is what you are talking about, rather than reality.

 

 

 

both. Its a defence mechanism so it doesn't hurt for some, while others can see it, warned of it, and were laughed at by the rest while they were sucking Ashley's & Keegan's bumhole all summer long.

[thedudeabides]

People still turning their noses up at 17th?

[Ronaldo]

it's starting to look as atttactive an option as doing Eliza Dushku

[S.S.R.]

A dignified 18th is looking quite palatable at the moment.

[thomas]

People still turning their noses up at 17th?

Better to cling to the reality that we can do better than 17th than wallow about in self pity and misery like some of the sorry sacks of shit on this board 

[Guest Stephen927]

Believe in better!

[oldtype]

I'm already getting to that point where I'm interested in stoke/hull/brom's results almost as much a ours. And it's fucking September

[Guest thefishman]

Plenty of time, remember we've only played SIX games, theres a long long way to go. If we are bottom with 4 points at xmas then i'll worry.......................................

[NG32]

Plenty time yet.

 

 

[oldtype]

Jesus Christ, with the Hull City result I think I'd now pay money for 17th.

 

Scared shitless.

[Guest gggg]

17th? At the moment it looks like we'll be battling with Stoke for 19th.

[quayside]

I hate saying this when its only late September - but can anyone name the 3 sides they think are going down without even thinking about us?

[La Parka]

I hate saying this when its only late September - but can anyone name the 3 sides they think are going down without even thinking about us?

 

No.

[Guest palnese]

No

[TRon]

Let's wait to see how we look with some of our injured players back before we start panicking eh?

[Guest Heneage]

I think the thing to draw with us, we have a lot missing and Janaury to  go.

[Nobody]

I still wouldn't.

[merlin]

Already, one-sixth of the League programme has been played - NUFC has 4 points..

There is little chance of major improvement before Christmas as Enrique has hamstring problem and that can take up to 6-8 weeks to put right(Beardsley was out for 8 weeks with one back in 86) ; LB is a major problem area, midfield is pedestrian and non-creative and Central defence is shaky because Taylor is NOT proving to have developed any further this season ; up front, only Owen looks like scoring on anything like a regular basis and Martins is out for 6 weeks.....

 

Add it all up, PLUS Hull looking unlikely to blow up soon(bad teams do NOT beat Arsenal at the Emirates - when did NUFC manage it..??), and as has been said, Stoke look to be NUFC's target, NOT Everton, Villa etc.

Even after a takeover, it will take time to sort this lot out and despite everyone waxing lyrical over Jonas, he has never looked like scoring, and, as far as I can remember, only really created one clear-cut scoring chance for forwards by his crossing - he carries the ball well and defends well(for an attacking midfielder),but the side needs goals from midfield as well as up front and NONE of the midfielders look like scoring..

 

Yes, as I have said before, I would take 17th place YESTERDAY,and I reckon most fans will be saying the same by end of October...This side has relegation written all over it.