Newcastle United 2-2 Wigan Athletic 15/11/08 - post-match reaction from page 14

[ShearMagic]

Aye, Duff's main problem is that he actually gives 110% every game. It's why he's in the team every Godforsaken week.

 

Same as Smith really.

 

At the end of the day, managers see things at the training ground that we don't, so whilst it's all well and good having a go for playing Duff and not N'Zogbia, I get the impression that N'Zogbia is disinterested and would be the sort to not really try in training, whereas Duff would put lots of effort in.

 

Hard for a manager to play the disinterested party over the really enthusiastic one.

 

Surely it's time to revert to a 4-3-3 now anyway, Ameobi won't be dropped (rightly or wrongly), but with both Owen and Martins scoring last night both have to play. Although probably not against Chelsea unless we're planning on taking the game to them, which is very dangerous to say the least.

 

How did Coloccini play?

[JH]

Typical Geordie way eh?

 

Blame the manager every time we don't get a result. And we wonder why we're bottom of the pile.

 

The only mistake JK made was starting Ameobi ahead of Owen, but some of the criticism he gets is ridiculous.

 

He's lost 2 games in 7, considering the sort of form we were in that's a fair effort. Keegan would have done no better. Want me to point out the record he had as manager the second time around?

 

You don't think Keegan would have amassed more than 1 point against Sunderland, Fulham and a ten-man Wigan? Gerraway man.

 

No, I don't.

 

That's the plain truth.

 

Keegan was also guilty of losing winnable games and playing players that shouldn't have played etc.

 

But since he's the messiah we're not allowed to criticise him, right?

 

Get to f*** with that f***ing attitude man. Sick of reading that sort of s****. Are we not allowed to have a debate about Keegan with that same old line being shovelled?

 

For what it's worth, i blame Keegan as much as i blame Ashley for the state we're in at the moment. Not that that's of any relevance to this particular discussion; i just feel more comfortable assuring you of that - so we can kick off the argument on an even keel.

 

Anyhow, Keegan's tenure started absolutely s****... but such is the tenacity and ambition of the man was that he did something risky to change our fortunes. It was risky yet executed with absolute precision. I'm on about the formation change, obviously.

 

In the space of two games, we went from being 4-4-2, slogging it out, no shape, no determination, no confidence, no nowt. No specific player roles, no corner routines, no set piece routines. No identification in terms of where to cross, when to cross, when wing-backs should push up, when wingers should drop deep, where strikers should be, etc etc.

 

There was the Liverpool 0-3 at Anfield, then the transition at Birmingham, then the explosion of quality at Spurs. all of a sudden, we've got a dynamic strike-force, a combative and versatile midfield, and wing-backs that could attack and assist.

 

Keegan started slowly but he had what it took to make a big decision and do it right. He had the motivation aswell, from kick-off n'all - not a half-time "you're all s***, get better".

 

Keegan knew exactly what he was doing and we would not be down here if he was still manager.

Well presumably if he was still manager, the fans wouldn't have protested, the owner wouldn't be selling, and we'd be excited at the best squad we've had for a few good years.

 

Absolutely, mate.

 

At the end of the day, there are just some things you can't explain. And the KK-Toon connection is one of those.

 

It just clicks. There is something about putting Keegan in the hotseat that works at Newcastle, and you could see it at the back end of last season when we really shone. He gave them belief and instilled passion back into the side (Not like Kinnear at all, who instils a fear passion, forces the team to pull their finger out rather than them actually wanting to).

 

Keegan loved the club, the players loved Keegan, therefore they would play for the club. You could see they were starting to enjoy football again, as were the fans.

 

I can say with absolute certainty that with KK in charge, we wouldn't be where we are now. Then again, I can also say with absolute certainty that with another good manager in charge, we wouldn't be where we are now too.

[TRon]

Zoggy will start against Chelsea at LB I reckon.

 

Aye i reckon so.

 

He should start at left wing, with Enrique behind him.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Typical Geordie way eh?

 

Blame the manager every time we don't get a result. And we wonder why we're bottom of the pile.

 

The only mistake JK made was starting Ameobi ahead of Owen, but some of the criticism he gets is ridiculous.

 

He's lost 2 games in 7, considering the sort of form we were in that's a fair effort. Keegan would have done no better. Want me to point out the record he had as manager the second time around?

 

You don't think Keegan would have amassed more than 1 point against Sunderland, Fulham and a ten-man Wigan? Gerraway man.

 

No, I don't.

 

That's the plain truth.

 

Keegan was also guilty of losing winnable games and playing players that shouldn't have played etc.

 

But since he's the messiah we're not allowed to criticise him, right?

 

Get to f*** with that f***ing attitude man. Sick of reading that sort of s****. Are we not allowed to have a debate about Keegan with that same old line being shovelled?

 

For what it's worth, i blame Keegan as much as i blame Ashley for the state we're in at the moment. Not that that's of any relevance to this particular discussion; i just feel more comfortable assuring you of that - so we can kick off the argument on an even keel.

 

Anyhow, Keegan's tenure started absolutely s****... but such is the tenacity and ambition of the man was that he did something risky to change our fortunes. It was risky yet executed with absolute precision. I'm on about the formation change, obviously.

 

In the space of two games, we went from being 4-4-2, slogging it out, no shape, no determination, no confidence, no nowt. No specific player roles, no corner routines, no set piece routines. No identification in terms of where to cross, when to cross, when wing-backs should push up, when wingers should drop deep, where strikers should be, etc etc.

 

There was the Liverpool 0-3 at Anfield, then the transition at Birmingham, then the explosion of quality at Spurs. all of a sudden, we've got a dynamic strike-force, a combative and versatile midfield, and wing-backs that could attack and assist.

 

Keegan started slowly but he had what it took to make a big decision and do it right. He had the motivation aswell, from kick-off n'all - not a half-time "you're all s***, get better".

 

Keegan knew exactly what he was doing and we would not be down here if he was still manager.

Well presumably if he was still manager, the fans wouldn't have protested, the owner wouldn't be selling, and we'd be excited at the best squad we've had for a few good years.

 

Absolutely, mate.

 

At the end of the day, there are just some things you can't explain. And the KK-Toon connection is one of those.

 

It just clicks. There is something about putting Keegan in the hotseat that works at Newcastle, and you could see it at the back end of last season when we really shone. He gave them belief and instilled passion back into the side (Not like Kinnear at all, who instils a fear passion, forces the team to pull their finger out rather than them actually wanting to).

 

Keegan loved the club, the players loved Keegan, therefore they would play for the club. You could see they were starting to enjoy football again, as were the fans.

 

I can say with absolute certainty that with KK in charge, we wouldn't be where we are now. Then again, I can also say with absolute certainty that with another good manager in charge, we wouldn't be where we are now too.

Yeah, Keegan's done a good job at Newcastle and all, but with any stability and a top level manager we'd be battling for position in the top half. If we were to go down, we would be challenging Zaragoza last year as one of the most talented teams to go down in Europen leagues.

Zoggy will start against Chelsea at LB I reckon.

 

Aye i reckon so.

Honestly I hope to my lord God that Zoggy is not played left back against Chelsea. I actaully like Zoggy as a player, and I think it might scar him for the rest of his career to be repeatedly raped by Joe Cole and Boswinga for the duration of 90 minutes.

[Cronky]

Just going by the 60 minute highlights on Sky -

 

I thought Bassong looked at home as a Premiership CB, and deserves another chance.

 

Another good performance by Shola.

 

Our ball retention is bad, and it makes it difficult for the players to build an attack with confidence. Chief culprit is Martins. He produces some great moments, but bloody hell is he frustrating.

 

Duff had one of those games when he tries to do too much. He was poor today, but Zoggy ain't the answer.

 

4-3-3 or Geremi coming back in on the right and Jonas moving left, then?

 

I wouldn't change the formation. The team needs to settle and find more rhythm and confidence. In any case, although I like 4-3-3, with the players we've got, I'm not sure that it would suit them better.

 

I quite like Duff and Jonas together. They interchange and link together well. What we could do with is a busy striker in the Bellamy mould who can link the attack together with the midfield and pull defenders about. Martins does his best but can't keep the ball.

 

Zoggy looks good when he has plenty of space to move forward into, and coming on as an attacking full back against 10 men gave him those opportunities. When he's closed down, he sinks without trace.

[black_n_white]

I can't really see why Duff is getting so much critisism on here, surely our defence should be getting most of the flack?! They are utter w***!! One of the worst in the prem FACT! Its almost as though we have to score 3 goals to win a f***ing match because these assholes cannot do their jobs properly, and if its not down to their potential as footballers then its our coaching staff should be sacked! This however all points to the laughable organisation of the club as a whole and the only way forward from all this mess is to sort out the off the field stuff before its too late...

[Mick]

I can't really see why Duff is getting so much critisism on here, surely our defence should be getting most of the flack?! They are utter w***!! One of the worst in the prem FACT! Its almost as though we have to score 3 goals to win a f***ing match because these assholes cannot do their jobs properly, and if its not down to their potential as footballers then its our coaching staff should be sacked! This however all points to the laughable organisation of the club as a whole and the only way forward from all this mess is to sort out the off the field stuff before its too late...

 

Duff is a part of a shit midfield, if the midfield held onto the ball instead of giving it away so cheaply then the defence would have more time to settle.

[johnnypd]

Just going by the 60 minute highlights on Sky -

 

I thought Bassong looked at home as a Premiership CB, and deserves another chance.

 

Another good performance by Shola.

 

Our ball retention is bad, and it makes it difficult for the players to build an attack with confidence. Chief culprit is Martins. He produces some great moments, but bloody hell is he frustrating.

 

Duff had one of those games when he tries to do too much. He was poor today, but Zoggy ain't the answer.

 

4-3-3 or Geremi coming back in on the right and Jonas moving left, then?

 

I wouldn't change the formation. The team needs to settle and find more rhythm and confidence. In any case, although I like 4-3-3, with the players we've got, I'm not sure that it would suit them better.

 

it wasnt until owen came on and we had martins, shola and him up front together that we looked any good going forward. we looked dogshit with 'the formation' and didnt make headway until it was changed.

[Baggio]

It was a shame Barton went off injured because I would have used the extra substitution to bring Geremi on for Beye, both fullbacks were complete fucking shite today and neither took advantage of the space they were getting.

 

Enrique feels dizzy if he goes over the half way line and I'm starting to wonder if Beye's got a prosthetic foot the way he crosses the ball, pair of donkeys.

[Ronaldo]

Zoggy will start against Chelsea at LB I reckon.

 

Aye i reckon so.

 

He should start at left wing, with Enrique behind him.

[Skirge]

After a good old kip things do not look to nad I suppose, we can say that old saying "10 men can be harder to play aghianst than 11" I think we proved that against Man City. Credit Wigan they battled for that pint, a very poor 1st half cost us the game.

Be more worried about the next 2 games than you are about how we played in this one.

[merlin]

Getting f***ing sick of me dad, like. Every single game it's "the team isn't good enough..." and every single time i reply with "oh, right, so if Keegan was still in charge it would have been the same result, would it?". Stumps him every time that one.

 

Nowt wrong with the team at all. That eleven out there today is a very, very good team - with Michael Owen on the bench n'all! If Joe Kinnear can't motivate the likes of Owen, Martins, Jonas, Guthrie, Beye, Enrique, Coloccini, Given - a collection of quality players - to victory against a ten-man Wigan with no strikers AT HOME, then he's not worth his f***ing salt.

 

Bollocks. Total bollocks. Ashley, et al, i've never really been against your policies but please - God. Please f***ing sell. ASAP.

 

Sorry, but your Dad is right - with or without KK, the team ISN'T good enough.

We might have got one or two points extra if KK had still been manager, but not many or enough to keep the club from relegation..the table tells the tale and if they can't beat a weakened Wigan side after coming back from a goal down, tnere isn't enough fight in the team, let alone class.

 

Time to get Prayer Mats out because the club could be entrenched in the Bottom 4 by Christmas, and there will be no fairy story escape this time...

[Guest BooBoo]

Aye, Duff's main problem is that he actually gives 110% every game. It's why he's in the team every Godforsaken week.

 

Same as Smith really.

 

At the end of the day, managers see things at the training ground that we don't, so whilst it's all well and good having a go for playing Duff and not N'Zogbia, I get the impression that N'Zogbia is disinterested and would be the sort to not really try in training, whereas Duff would put lots of effort in.

 

Hard for a manager to play the disinterested party over the really enthusiastic one.

 

Surely it's time to revert to a 4-3-3 now anyway, Ameobi won't be dropped (rightly or wrongly), but with both Owen and Martins scoring last night both have to play. Although probably not against Chelsea unless we're planning on taking the game to them, which is very dangerous to say the least.

 

How did Coloccini play?

 

Coloccini to me is looking less confident with each game.

[Ronaldo]

Getting f***ing sick of me dad, like. Every single game it's "the team isn't good enough..." and every single time i reply with "oh, right, so if Keegan was still in charge it would have been the same result, would it?". Stumps him every time that one.

 

Nowt wrong with the team at all. That eleven out there today is a very, very good team - with Michael Owen on the bench n'all! If Joe Kinnear can't motivate the likes of Owen, Martins, Jonas, Guthrie, Beye, Enrique, Coloccini, Given - a collection of quality players - to victory against a ten-man Wigan with no strikers AT HOME, then he's not worth his f***ing salt.

 

Bollocks. Total bollocks. Ashley, et al, i've never really been against your policies but please - God. Please f***ing sell. ASAP.

 

Sorry, but your Dad is right - with or without KK, the team ISN'T good enough.

We might have got one or two points extra if KK had still been manager, but not many or enough to keep the club from relegation..the table tells the tale and if they can't beat a weakened Wigan side after coming back from a goal down, tnere isn't enough fight in the team, let alone class.

 

Time to get Prayer Mats out because the club could be entrenched in the Bottom 4 by Christmas, and there will be no fairy story escape this time...

 

even with Keegan we were average at very best to be honest. With the exception of a draw away to Man U and a win away to Spurs tbh

[Guest BooBoo]

Getting f***ing sick of me dad, like. Every single game it's "the team isn't good enough..." and every single time i reply with "oh, right, so if Keegan was still in charge it would have been the same result, would it?". Stumps him every time that one.

 

Nowt wrong with the team at all. That eleven out there today is a very, very good team - with Michael Owen on the bench n'all! If Joe Kinnear can't motivate the likes of Owen, Martins, Jonas, Guthrie, Beye, Enrique, Coloccini, Given - a collection of quality players - to victory against a ten-man Wigan with no strikers AT HOME, then he's not worth his f***ing salt.

 

Bollocks. Total bollocks. Ashley, et al, i've never really been against your policies but please - God. Please f***ing sell. ASAP.

 

Sorry, but your Dad is right - with or without KK, the team ISN'T good enough.

We might have got one or two points extra if KK had still been manager, but not many or enough to keep the club from relegation..the table tells the tale and if they can't beat a weakened Wigan side after coming back from a goal down, tnere isn't enough fight in the team, let alone class.

 

Time to get Prayer Mats out because the club could be entrenched in the Bottom 4 by Christmas, and there will be no fairy story escape this time...

 

even with Keegan we were average at very best to be honest. With the exception of a draw away to Man U and a win away to Spurs tbh

 

Agreed. They were the only two impressive results of his second spell.

 

The team/ squad is fairly mediocre, even with a clean bill of health.

[Thespence]

Just going by the 60 minute highlights on Sky -

 

I thought Bassong looked at home as a Premiership CB, and deserves another chance.

 

He was okayish but no more than that, remember  that was Wigan 2nd choice pairing (Zaki & Heskey would of killed us) & for most of the 2nd half him & Colo played against 1 striker & they found it hard going.  I have seen him play a better at LB than he did CB yesterday, he is an improvement on Cacapa & Edgar.

 

Is this him challenging Shambles?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45209000/jpg/_45209970_bramble_b282.jpg

[La Parka]

Just going by the 60 minute highlights on Sky -

 

I thought Bassong looked at home as a Premiership CB, and deserves another chance.

 

He was okayish but no more than that, remember  that was Wigan 2nd choice pairing (Zaki & Heskey would of killed us) & for most of the 2nd half him & Colo played against 1 striker & they found it hard going.  I have seen him play a better at LB than he did CB yesterday, he is an improvement on Cacapa & Edgar.

 

Is this him challenging Shambles?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45209000/jpg/_45209970_bramble_b282.jpg

 

Looks like Zog to me :| Can't really tell..

[Golfmag]

Agree 100%. And Duff played well

Typical Geordie way eh?

 

Blame the manager every time we don't get a result. And we wonder why we're bottom of the pile.

 

The only mistake JK made was starting Ameobi ahead of Owen, but some of the criticism he gets is ridiculous.

 

He's lost 2 games in 7, considering the sort of form we were in that's a fair effort. Keegan would have done no better. Want me to point out the record he had as manager the second time around?

 

Hear hear. And Duff played well yesterday FFS

[Thespence]

Just going by the 60 minute highlights on Sky -

 

I thought Bassong looked at home as a Premiership CB, and deserves another chance.

 

He was okayish but no more than that, remember  that was Wigan 2nd choice pairing (Zaki & Heskey would of killed us) & for most of the 2nd half him & Colo played against 1 striker & they found it hard going.  I have seen him play a better at LB than he did CB yesterday, he is an improvement on Cacapa & Edgar.

 

Is this him challenging Shambles?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45209000/jpg/_45209970_bramble_b282.jpg

 

Looks like Zog to me :| Can't really tell..

 

 

[Parsley]

I think its Shola.

[Guest BooBoo]

Agree 100%. And Duff played well

Typical Geordie way eh?

 

Blame the manager every time we don't get a result. And we wonder why we're bottom of the pile.

 

The only mistake JK made was starting Ameobi ahead of Owen, but some of the criticism he gets is ridiculous.

 

He's lost 2 games in 7, considering the sort of form we were in that's a fair effort. Keegan would have done no better. Want me to point out the record he had as manager the second time around?

 

Hear hear. And Duff played well yesterday FFS

 

Bloke behind me was going beserk when Jonas was taken off ahead of Duff. Ridiculous really as Duff had been involved most of the game whilst Jonas had offered little other than his usual running.

[Robster]

Agree 100%. And Duff played well

Typical Geordie way eh?

 

Blame the manager every time we don't get a result. And we wonder why we're bottom of the pile.

 

The only mistake JK made was starting Ameobi ahead of Owen, but some of the criticism he gets is ridiculous.

 

He's lost 2 games in 7, considering the sort of form we were in that's a fair effort. Keegan would have done no better. Want me to point out the record he had as manager the second time around?

 

Hear hear. And Duff played well yesterday FFS

 

I hold my hands up and say I havent seen the full game but for that effort of clearing Brambles header off the line, he deserves all the criticism he gets. Embarassing

[Wullie]

Duff was the same as he always is. Utter fucking waste of oxygen.

[Golfmag]

Typical Geordie way eh?

 

Blame the manager every time we don't get a result. And we wonder why we're bottom of the pile.

 

The only mistake JK made was starting Ameobi ahead of Owen, but some of the criticism he gets is ridiculous.

 

He's lost 2 games in 7, considering the sort of form we were in that's a fair effort. Keegan would have done no better. Want me to point out the record he had as manager the second time around?

 

You don't think Keegan would have amassed more than 1 point against Sunderland, Fulham and a ten-man Wigan? Gerraway man.

 

No, I don't.

 

That's the plain truth.

 

Keegan was also guilty of losing winnable games and playing players that shouldn't have played etc.

 

But since he's the messiah we're not allowed to criticise him, right?

 

Get to f*** with that f***ing attitude man. Sick of reading that sort of s****. Are we not allowed to have a debate about Keegan with that same old line being shovelled?

 

For what it's worth, i blame Keegan as much as i blame Ashley for the state we're in at the moment. Not that that's of any relevance to this particular discussion; i just feel more comfortable assuring you of that - so we can kick off the argument on an even keel.

 

Anyhow, Keegan's tenure started absolutely s****... but such is the tenacity and ambition of the man was that he did something risky to change our fortunes. It was risky yet executed with absolute precision. I'm on about the formation change, obviously.

 

In the space of two games, we went from being 4-4-2, slogging it out, no shape, no determination, no confidence, no nowt. No specific player roles, no corner routines, no set piece routines. No identification in terms of where to cross, when to cross, when wing-backs should push up, when wingers should drop deep, where strikers should be, etc etc.

 

There was the Liverpool 0-3 at Anfield, then the transition at Birmingham, then the explosion of quality at Spurs. all of a sudden, we've got a dynamic strike-force, a combative and versatile midfield, and wing-backs that could attack and assist.

 

Keegan started slowly but he had what it took to make a big decision and do it right. He had the motivation aswell, from kick-off n'all - not a half-time "you're all s***, get better".

 

Keegan knew exactly what he was doing and we would not be down here if he was still manager.

Well presumably if he was still manager, the fans wouldn't have protested, the owner wouldn't be selling, and we'd be excited at the best squad we've had for a few good years.

 

Absolutely, mate.

 

At the end of the day, there are just some things you can't explain. And the KK-Toon connection is one of those.

 

It just clicks. There is something about putting Keegan in the hotseat that works at Newcastle, and you could see it at the back end of last season when we really shone. He gave them belief and instilled passion back into the side (Not like Kinnear at all, who instils a fear passion, forces the team to pull their finger out rather than them actually wanting to).

 

Keegan loved the club, the players loved Keegan, therefore they would play for the club. You could see they were starting to enjoy football again, as were the fans.

 

I can say with absolute certainty that with KK in charge, we wouldn't be where we are now. Then again, I can also say with absolute certainty that with another good manager in charge, we wouldn't be where we are now too.

 

I'm sorry, but the one thing you can say with certainty is that you absolutely cannot say those two things with certainty.....

 

I guess however that with a good manager, Wimbledon would have won the title every year, rather than just staying in the top flight season after season on crowds of 3,000....

 

Every manager makes descisions that can be questioned - I don't understand why JK took off Jonas yesterday - but I take my hat off to the man. I think that he has done an excellent job in very trying circumstances.

[SteveMc]

It was Shola who was 'marking' Bramble btw