Kinnear Out

[Colos Short and Curlies]

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4339/bobbyrobsonon3.jpg

 

Look at that photo, man. Look at some of the alleged dross in the squad there. Caldwell, Kerr, Bramble, O'Brien, Hughes, Bernard, Lua Lua. Players who we, looking back, consider as ones who really scrape the barrel. And with good reason in a lot of cases. Then look at the bloke in the middle. They're stood in the Nou Camp in the last sixteen of the Champions League ffs.

 

Don't even think about telling me our squad isn't good enough man! Back then, the beauty of that squad was that we had some dodgy players, that were more than compensated for by some absolutely quality ones, (plus the idea that "defense = attack").

 

So i mean, let's pick out the dross we've got now. Enrique, Butt, Geremi, Coloccini? Who'd have Caldwell, Hughes et al over them? No one, i reckon.

 

Compensate our dross with our quality players - just like Boby did back then - and we'd have a fucking quality outfit, imo. And just to dig up old bones - that's what Keegan would have given us.

 

I take exception at Bernard being called dross like, but a good post nontheless. I also liked Lua Lua.

 

Agree entirely mate. Bernard was my favourite player aside from Shearer for a good season or so. A lot of people thought he/they were shit though, similarly with the likes of Enrique today. That's what i was getting at.

 

Thanks btw, guys. Nice hearing stuff like that from people even if it is the internet.

 

That photo has been photoshopped.

 

An image of a fit Carl Cort has been added to it

[Tisd09]

Carl cort is clearly holding on to Jenas for dear life...... The poor bastard is falling asleep on his feet he is so fecked...

[UV]

WSC article on Kinnear's last job at Forest:

 

http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/1714/29/

 

He suffered an injury crisis early in the season, but despite having a transfer budget that was supposedly far better than the one his predecessor Paul Hart was given, nothing happened. He would boast of new signings on a weekly basis, even though some of the clubs involved denied there had been any approaches from Forest.

 

A taste of what's in store for January?

 

Can see why Ashley thought of him in the first place like:

 

Not only did he claim that he alone had reduced Forest’s debt from £40 million to £15m

[Wallace]

WSC article on Kinnear's last job at Forest:

 

http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/1714/29/

 

He suffered an injury crisis early in the season, but despite having a transfer budget that was supposedly far better than the one his predecessor Paul Hart was given, nothing happened. He would boast of new signings on a weekly basis, even though some of the clubs involved denied there had been any approaches from Forest.

 

A taste of what's in store for January?

 

Can see why Ashley thought of him in the first place like:

 

Not only did he claim that he alone had reduced Forests debt from £40 million to £15m

 

Scary that a lot of in that article already sounds familiar.

 

[Guest neesy111]

i see that the lady luck excuse is coming out now, remember the last useless manager to use this as his excuses

[MW]

Talking absolute bollocks in his interview on the BBC. Says we were 12 points behind Citeh, West Ham and Blackburn when he took over. Definitely not true.

[chicago_shearer]

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4339/bobbyrobsonon3.jpg

 

Look at that photo, man. Look at some of the alleged dross in the squad there. Caldwell, Kerr, Bramble, O'Brien, Hughes, Bernard, Lua Lua. Players who we, looking back, consider as ones who really scrape the barrel. And with good reason in a lot of cases. Then look at the bloke in the middle. They're stood in the Nou Camp in the last sixteen of the Champions League ffs.

 

Don't even think about telling me our squad isn't good enough man! Back then, the beauty of that squad was that we had some dodgy players, that were more than compensated for by some absolutely quality ones, (plus the idea that "defense = attack").

 

So i mean, let's pick out the dross we've got now. Enrique, Butt, Geremi, Coloccini? Who'd have Caldwell, Hughes et al over them? No one, i reckon.

 

Compensate our dross with our quality players - just like Boby did back then - and we'd have a f***ing quality outfit, imo. And just to dig up old bones - that's what Keegan would have given us.

 

I take exception at Bernard being called dross like, but a good post nontheless. I also liked Lua Lua.

 

Agree entirely mate. Bernard was my favourite player aside from Shearer for a good season or so. A lot of people thought he/they were s*** though, similarly with the likes of Enrique today. That's what i was getting at.

 

Thanks btw, guys. Nice hearing stuff like that from people even if it is the internet.

 

That photo has been photoshopped.

 

An image of a fit Carl Cort has been added to it

 

I think Yorkie's post makes a fair point, but I think that it relieves the players of any sort of responsibility for their performances.  Kinnear isn't the ideal man, we know that, and in truth he probably knows that too.  But there are employees in companies all over the world getting decent results in spite of a poor manager. 

 

A good manager or a legendary manager like Sir Bobby can be sufficient in producing a good, successful team.  But I look around the Premiership and I see the likes of Pulis, Megson, Southgate, Bruce....none of whom strike me as particularly great managers, most of whom I would hate to see at the club, but all getting favourable results with average players.  I could probably search Getty and find a picture of Steve McClaren at the UEFA Cup final.  How did he get there?  Managerial prowess or on the back of a competent group of players who took responsibility for their own performances (and a bit of luck)?

 

I'm not really trying to defend Kinnear, but I don't think this league position is down to him.  Sack him, and you are still left with a group of players whose attitude and basic ability are not as unquestionable as some people around here like to think.  Managerial incompetence can only drag you down so far.  You can't design the sort of bad performances that put you at 17th in the table.  You might argue that he is failing to motivate, it may be the case, but I expect better from a group of players with the sort of CVs and wages they have.  Kinnear's puzzling tactical decisions and substitutions shouldn't excuse players that aren't pulling their weight, or lack the bottle to defend a lead in the dying minutes of a match. 

[TRon]

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4339/bobbyrobsonon3.jpg

 

Look at that photo, man. Look at some of the alleged dross in the squad there. Caldwell, Kerr, Bramble, O'Brien, Hughes, Bernard, Lua Lua. Players who we, looking back, consider as ones who really scrape the barrel. And with good reason in a lot of cases. Then look at the bloke in the middle. They're stood in the Nou Camp in the last sixteen of the Champions League ffs.

 

Don't even think about telling me our squad isn't good enough man! Back then, the beauty of that squad was that we had some dodgy players, that were more than compensated for by some absolutely quality ones, (plus the idea that "defense = attack").

 

So i mean, let's pick out the dross we've got now. Enrique, Butt, Geremi, Coloccini? Who'd have Caldwell, Hughes et al over them? No one, i reckon.

 

Compensate our dross with our quality players - just like Boby did back then - and we'd have a f***ing quality outfit, imo. And just to dig up old bones - that's what Keegan would have given us.

 

I take exception at Bernard being called dross like, but a good post nontheless. I also liked Lua Lua.

 

Agree entirely mate. Bernard was my favourite player aside from Shearer for a good season or so. A lot of people thought he/they were s*** though, similarly with the likes of Enrique today. That's what i was getting at.

 

Thanks btw, guys. Nice hearing stuff like that from people even if it is the internet.

 

That photo has been photoshopped.

 

An image of a fit Carl Cort has been added to it

 

I think Yorkie's post makes a fair point, but I think that it relieves the players of any sort of responsibility for their performances.  Kinnear isn't the ideal man, we know that, and in truth he probably knows that too.  But there are employees in companies all over the world getting decent results in spite of a poor manager. 

 

A good manager or a legendary manager like Sir Bobby can be sufficient in producing a good, successful team.  But I look around the Premiership and I see the likes of Pulis, Megson, Southgate, Bruce....none of whom strike me as particularly great managers, most of whom I would hate to see at the club, but all getting favourable results with average players.  I could probably search Getty and find a picture of Steve McClaren at the UEFA Cup final.  How did he get there?  Managerial prowess or on the back of a competent group of players who took responsibility for their own performances (and a bit of luck)?

 

I'm not really trying to defend Kinnear, but I don't think this league position is down to him.  Sack him, and you are still left with a group of players whose attitude and basic ability are not as unquestionable as some people around here like to think.  Managerial incompetence can only drag you down so far.  You can't design the sort of bad performances that put you at 17th in the table.  You might argue that he is failing to motivate, it may be the case, but I expect better from a group of players with the sort of CVs and wages they have.  Kinnear's puzzling tactical decisions and substitutions shouldn't excuse players that aren't pulling their weight, or lack the bottle to defend a lead in the dying minutes of a match. 

 

While I would agree with you on most days, that game against Stoke was lost from the touchline. The bench was unbalanced, the substitutions made it worse, and the decision to allow Stoke to dominate us in the second half when we were 2-0 up was a disaster.

 

He can't afford many more fuck ups like that, and I appreciate he was only hired initially as an interim manager.

[Ronaldo]

stupid calling Bramble, Bernard and Lua Lua dross tbh. All more than had their moments under SBR

[Yorkie]

stupid calling Bramble, Bernard and Lua Lua dross tbh. All more than had their moments under SBR

 

Grr, missing the point man. They were 'generally perceived' as the dross we had back then. When infact, they were simply average players making up a brilliant team, thanks 90% to the manager. We've got some averageish players at the moment n'all.

 

[Skirge]

Kinnear: United supporters are best I've ever seen

 

JOE KINNEAR has assured the Toon Army he is working round the clock in order to pull Newcastle United away from Premier League danger. Read

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/12/13/kinnear-united-supporters-are-best-i-ve-ever-seen-72703-22468496/

[Yorkie]

Kinnear: United supporters are best I've ever seen

 

JOE KINNEAR has assured the Toon Army he is working round the clock in order to pull Newcastle United away from Premier League danger. Read

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/12/13/kinnear-united-supporters-are-best-i-ve-ever-seen-72703-22468496/

 

The players can be as dishonest as they want for me, so long as they're playing well. What does that even mean, btw? Like, if Martins asks for a pass - but was only joking - is that when the players are being 'dishonest'. Don't really get it.

 

Don't mind that approach for Pompey btw. I don't mind it for the majority of the away games. We don't seem capable of taking the game to teams away from home so a bit of containment to start off with is OK. We did alright at Chelsea and Boro. It's when it's blatantly obvious that we've got a good chance of winning the game, and we don't even go for it, when it annoys me.

[pedro111]

JFK can fuck off arse licking the fans to try and keep us sweet.

[Kitman]

The reason JFK's with us at all is because no other bugger would touch the job, not even El Tel for a truckload of cash.  I fear if JFK is shown the door that only leaves Dave Bassett that Dennis Wise can personally recommend.  In which case we've had it.

[Optimistic Nut]

The reason JFK's with us at all is because no other bugger would touch the job, not even El Tel for a truckload of cash.  I fear if JFK is shown the door that only leaves Dave Bassett that Dennis Wise can personally recommend.  In which case we've had it.

 

Poyet is available now...

[Kitman]

The reason JFK's with us at all is because no other bugger would touch the job, not even El Tel for a truckload of cash.  I fear if JFK is shown the door that only leaves Dave Bassett that Dennis Wise can personally recommend.  In which case we've had it.

 

Poyet is available now...

 

oh goody, that's all right then. 

 

This whole situation is indicative of the paralysis at the heart of the club.  I'm tempted to think Ashley bought the club as a property development play, maybe with the super casino behind it.  That would explain why Llambias was brought in given his background in casinos (although not sure of the chronology of when the super casino bid was rejected).  When property etc fell through Ashley's lost interest as he's not really interested in the football club as such.  It's easy to be cynical, mind.   

[Mick]

 

oh goody, that's all right then. 

 

This whole situation is indicative of the paralysis at the heart of the club.  I'm tempted to think Ashley bought the club as a property development play, maybe with the super casino behind it.  That would explain why Llambias was brought in given his background in casinos (although not sure of the chronology of when the super casino bid was rejected).  When property etc fell through Ashley's lost interest as he's not really interested in the football club as such.  It's easy to be cynical, mind.   

 

The casino fell through before Ashley arrived.

[Yorkie]

Am i going insane or was this thread at 13 pages when i left the house earlier this evening?

[Dave]

Am i going insane or was this thread at 13 pages when i left the house earlier this evening?

 

I'm guessing Rich has been playing with the posts per page settings.

[Rich]

Am i going insane or was this thread at 13 pages when i left the house earlier this evening?

 

I'm guessing Rich has been playing with the posts per page settings.

 

Thought I'd got away with it. Just bumped it up to 30 to see if it makes any difference tomorrow during the game.

[oldtype]

The Enrique quote is the most abominable thing I've seen any football manager do. Ever.

 

And that's including the South Korean bloke who got sacked for physically assaulting his assistant last year.

[Decky]

JFK can fuck off arse licking the fans to try and keep us sweet.

 

 

This thread is crying out for a poll, just so we can all vote for him to go

[Syrette]

I hope he gets a lump of coal for Christmas.

[Decky]

I hope he gets a lump of coal for Christmas.

 

I hope he gets a P45

 

fucking not gonna happen though unfortunately

[merlin]

All this agonising about Kinnear is pointless, frankly - if people are honest with themselves instead of burying their heads in the sand, they would accept that the ONLY reason he is at NUFC is because NOBODY who is anything like a decent manager will take the job.

 

The whole club is the laughing stock of the Prem and the owner has totally lost credibility in football.

The damage done has been immense, and will be long-lasting, even if the club avoids relegation.

A new owner will be handicapped by the financial constraints to the economy and, probably, to his own wealth, so even assuming that Shearer, or someone of decent reputation can be persuaded to take the job, it will be difficult to make the type of signings that would push the club into contention for Top 8.

 

I guess there will be a few seasons of 'consolidation' at best, and , if the worst happens, we will be out of the Prem for at least 3 years.

When I look back at how all the efforts of the late 80s/early 90s to change the club have been squandered, it makes me very angry indeed, because this need NOT have happened.

 

We are almost back to the same stage as we were then - a new Board wanting to take control, and the club in danger of relegation ; OK, last time it could have been down from Div 2, but bearing in mind how drastically the game has changed financially since, this is potentially just as bad.