West Ham agree fee in region of £15m with Liverpool for Andy Carroll

[Ameritoon]

Allardyce

[STM]

Did Milan rule themselves out of a move for Carroll? Or indeed rule themselves in?

 

If not, I can't see any other solution than a return here. Like it or not.

[toontownman]

Obese Troglodyte 

This.. perfect!

[johnnypd]

so for the people who want us to shell out a huge fee on Carroll - where exactly does he fit into this side?

 

or are they comfortable paying £12-13m on a back up 'option' from the bench?

 

and are they really that confident that his arrival won't destabilise a team set-up that gets the best out of cabaye, cisse and ben arfa, amongst others?

[CaliMag]

WHam makes sense. I am surprised Kevin Nolan didn't make a perosnal plea... or perhapse the idea of being forced to live with his old minder is the primary reason why he doesn't want to switch to WHam. Also I think WHam under Fat Sam would suit Carroll well.

[Unbelievable]

so for the people who want us to shell out a huge fee on Carroll - where exactly does he fit into this side?

 

or are they comfortable paying £12-13m on a back up 'option' from the bench?

 

and are they really that confident that his arrival won't destabilise a team set-up that gets the best out of cabaye, cisse and ben arfa, amongst others?

 

Maybe they are realistic enough to realise that 2,5 strikers for a potential 55+ matches campaign will not cut the mustard? You may have a different opinion about Carroll being the most suitable option, but don't tell me you disagree with bringing another quality striker in? Then, if not Carroll, please tell me who we could realistically go for within our budget who would be willing to come here? If you don't know, but are of the opinion that the club are in the business of scouting and finding these options and seeing as we've found Cisse for 8 million, we should easily be able to do it again, then what do you think it means that we've turned our attention to Andy Carroll?

[STM]

I think there is a lot of ego involved in our interest.

[KaKa]

This s*** about not wanting to leave permanently is surely him just trying to avoid burning his bridges with their fans should a move fall through and/or he has to go back later. Barring a spectacular failure Rodgers will be there next season as well, so what's the point in him going out on loan and coming back? Perhaps it's Liverpool orchestrating it to try and solidify their position trying to get a permanent transfer.

 

Or maybe he just doesn't want to give up his current wage packet.

 

Perhaps he knows Newcastle are only interested in an initial loan, and so he has said he wants to go on loan first.

[Benwell Lad]

so for the people who want us to shell out a huge fee on Carroll - where exactly does he fit into this side?

Up front.

or are they comfortable paying £12-13m on a back up 'option' from the bench?

Yes.

and are they really that confident that his arrival won't destabilise a team set-up that gets the best out of cabaye, cisse and ben arfa, amongst others?

Yes.

 

 

Main reason for above answers is that if he were to arrive, I would have faith in our excellent staff thinking the above through very carefully, thereby saving us from having to fret too much about it.

That said, I don't think he'll come, but there again a set of circumstances seem to be coming together which make it look increasingly feasible.

[Benwell Lad]

This s*** about not wanting to leave permanently is surely him just trying to avoid burning his bridges with their fans should a move fall through and/or he has to go back later. Barring a spectacular failure Rodgers will be there next season as well, so what's the point in him going out on loan and coming back? Perhaps it's Liverpool orchestrating it to try and solidify their position trying to get a permanent transfer.

 

Or maybe he just doesn't want to give up his current wage packet.

 

Perhaps he knows Newcastle are only interested in an initial loan, and so he has said he wants to go on loan first.

 

Agree.

The comments attributed to Carroll seem to be very much in tune with what Newcastle themselves want.

[Anderson]

Is it overly cynical of me to suggest that we have some part to play in him saying he only wants to leave on loan?

[Dokko]

Is it overly cynical of me to suggest that we have some part to play in him saying he only wants to leave on loan?

 

They are in this together and why Liverpool won't win.

[Minhosa]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9994/halfpricegypo.jpg

 

Spot the irony.

 

[Benwell Lad]

Is it overly cynical of me to suggest that we have some part to play in him saying he only wants to leave on loan?

 

They are in this together and why Liverpool won't win.

 

If Liverpool were rich and ran by Scousers rather than ruthless bottom line Americans, their pride may have got in the way of a deal with Newcastle.

They are neither, so practically will overcome pride.

[johnnypd]

so for the people who want us to shell out a huge fee on Carroll - where exactly does he fit into this side?

 

or are they comfortable paying £12-13m on a back up 'option' from the bench?

 

and are they really that confident that his arrival won't destabilise a team set-up that gets the best out of cabaye, cisse and ben arfa, amongst others?

 

Maybe they are realistic enough to realise that 2,5 strikers for a potential 55+ matches campaign will not cut the mustard? You may have a different opinion about Carroll being the most suitable option, but don't tell me you disagree with bringing another quality striker in?

 

who said anything about NOT signing another forward?

 

Then, if not Carroll, please tell me who we could realistically go for within our budget who would be willing to come here?

 

i've always been of the opinion that a versatile forward who can do a job in any of the front 3 roles would be preferable to a Carroll or De Jong type striker.

 

I wouldn't say no to either as they would clearly improve our squad (though NOT, it must be said, our first XI) but i'd prefer we didn't spend that much on the position as it is essentially a back-up or rotation role, a better shola ultimately. the money could be spent more effectively elsewhere, particularly on players who are more able to slip into, and can challenge for starting places, in a system that gets the best out of what we already have.

 

If you don't know, but are of the opinion that the club are in the business of scouting and finding these options and seeing as we've found Cisse for 8 million, we should easily be able to do it again, then what do you think it means that we've turned our attention to Andy Carroll?

 

so we've scoured the globe looking for players but Carroll just happens to be the best? well first of all carr doesnt scout british players and secondly rodgers wants rid and just highlighted an opportunity signing for us, a kind of signing we've been very keen to make in the past.

 

i do however notice that none of the questions in my post were actually answered.

[johnnypd]

so for the people who want us to shell out a huge fee on Carroll - where exactly does he fit into this side?

Up front.

 

in a 4-3-3?. If we must rest Cisse i'd rather Ba fills in through the middle. big outlay for a third choice player for one position.

 

in a 4-4-2? Sure, for 5 or 6 games a season, but i wouldn't want it to become out default approach to games.

 

or are they comfortable paying £12-13m on a back up 'option' from the bench?

Yes.

 

fair enough, you must have great confidence in our ability to keep up spending on other areas of the side.

 

and are they really that confident that his arrival won't destabilise a team set-up that gets the best out of cabaye, cisse and ben arfa, amongst others?

Yes.

 

Carroll's a big reputation player with a history here, so i wouldn't be so confident that he's going to be a mere squad player, unfortunately. he's the local hero in the spotlight and i can see it being a problem when he realises he has to fit into a system that he isnt suited to and that he isn't going to start the lion's share of matches. we've seen at liverpool that when he isnt allowed to get into his stride he's a lesser player. and we've already seen issues with Ba removed from his favoured spot, so yes, let's go and make it worse by trying to fit 3 very good players into one single position while not having adequate competition in the other 2 forward spots.

 

FWIW i'd take him on loan with the proviso that he would not be considered a first XI player. The fact that Pardew has already targeted De Jong, though, suggests he has his eyes firmly fixed on 4-4-2. not saying it's the end of the world as we did well with Best in the Carroll role last season but it seems like a step back after seeing that another way got the best out of Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Jonas and probably even Tiote who simply doesn't seem well paired with Cabaye in a 4-4-2.

 

to further re-iterate - i would take carroll - it's a squad game and he'd improve our squad. i am just primarily uneasy about what such a transfer means for the future direction of the side.

[Unbelievable]

Long post

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Please allow me to return the favour as you asked:

 

so for the people who want us to shell out a huge fee on Carroll - where exactly does he fit into this side?

 

What we are seemingly trying to do is bring Carroll back on a season long loan, with an option to buy at our discretion if reports are to be believed. It's hardly shelling out a huge fee in that context; it could be construed as the exact opposite: we get a quality striker for a nominal loan fee and if he turns out to be a success we have an option to bring him in on a pre-agreed fee just when the new TV money kicks in, allowing us to use this year's budget in other positions that need strengthening.

 

As to where he fits in the side? I think he would be one of our 3 main strikers who would be played in a 442 or 433 depending on the opposition or the situation in a game. As such he would get plenty of game time, but wouldn't necessarily be an automatic starter.

 

or are they comfortable paying £12-13m on a back up 'option' from the bench?

 

Again, we're talking about a loan fee in the first instance. I'm perfectly comfortable with us seeing how it pans out and paying £12-13m if he manager to recapture his previous form with us and proves a good fit in the squad. I don't see why anybody wouldn't, as we can't really lose. If he doesn't hit those heights or kicks up a fuss we send him packing.

 

Secondly, as explained above, he would hardly be a back up option from the bench in my opinion, especially considering we're looking at potentially 55+ matches and he brings something very different to the table that may come in handy in specific situations where our plan A doesn't work (either based on Pardew's pre-match analysis or how it pans out on the pitch).

 

and are they really that confident that his arrival won't destabilise a team set-up that gets the best out of cabaye, cisse and ben arfa, amongst others?

 

I'm not overly concerned about this to be honest. Firstly because he's a much better footballer than some on here give him credit for, secondly because this team set up and how it contrasts with how we've played earlier in the season or even when Carroll was here is massively overplayed. I seriously can't see how Cabaye, Cisse and Ben Arfa suddenly could no longer play to the best of their ability with Carroll in the squad. Maybe you could explain to me how this would work?

 

As for your responses to my questions:

 

who said anything about NOT signing another forward?

 

You implied it at the very least by suggesting Carroll would be a "back up option from the bench"

 

i've always been of the opinion that a versatile forward who can do a job in any of the front 3 roles would be preferable to a Carroll or De Jong type striker.

 

I wouldn't say no to either as they would clearly improve our squad (though NOT, it must be said, our first XI) but i'd prefer we didn't spend that much on the position as it is essentially a back-up or rotation role, a better shola ultimately. the money could be spent more effectively elsewhere, particularly on players who are more able to slip into, and can challenge for starting places, in a system that gets the best out of what we already have.

 

If you don't think players such as De Jong or Carroll would improve our first team, I would like you to really answer my question rather than talk around the issue: who could we realistically go for within our budget who would be willing to come here?

 

so we've scoured the globe looking for players but Carroll just happens to be the best? well first of all carr doesnt scout british players and secondly rodgers wants rid and just highlighted an opportunity signing for us, a kind of signing we've been very keen to make in the past.

 

i do however notice that none of the questions in my post were actually answered.

 

We've evidently gone in for Luuk de Jong who we thought we'd get for 8-10 million, but were turned down by both the selling club in terms of the fee we had in mind and the player because he was more attracted to Borussia Monchengladbach. Personally I think this underlines how brilliant and unique it was to get a player of Cisse's quality for 8 million. Maybe they don't have any better alternative options that they consider more worthwhile than trying to get Carroll back. Even though I agree there is some Ashley brinkmanship and ego involved in this offer, I can't seriously contemplate he's doing it on his own going against the advise of his chief scout and manager this time, especially considering how he was burnt before by similar actions (KK) and how brilliantly Carr and Pardew have done for him recently. All this leads me to believe we are seeing Carroll on the (relative) cheap as a better deal than any other we'd planned before the summer transfer window.

[Wullie]

Of course he'd be a bench player, he's nowhere near as good as the two players ahead of him.

[Unbelievable]

Of course he'd be a bench player, he's nowhere near as good as the two players ahead of him.

 

If we were to line up in a 442 due to tactical considerations (like we did vs Man U at home for example), would you prefer Ba and Cisse to Carroll and Cisse or even Carroll and Ba? I don't think I would, and even then it's assuming Ba and Cisse will be fit and available to play for every single match this upcoming season unless we get in another striker of similar quality (why else sell Best?).

 

Also, he's proved to be able to be a 1 in 2 striker for us over a full calender year (albeit partly in the Championship) and a half season in the Premiership. Over the course of their careers and even time with us in Ba's case, is that so much worse than Ba and Cisse's records? And that's before we even mention what else Carroll brought to the table in his time here, such as an actual threat from set pieces (Williamson flick on at the edge of the box anyone?) and the best defensive header for corners and opposition set pieces I've ever seen in my time supporting NUFC.

[Guest bimpy474]

Of course he'd be a bench player, he's nowhere near as good as the two players ahead of him.

 

If we were to line up in a 442 due to tactical considerations (like we did vs Man U at home for example), would you prefer Ba and Cisse to Carroll and Cisse or even Carroll and Ba? I don't think I would, and even then it's assuming Ba and Cisse will be fit and available to play for every single match this upcoming season unless we get in another striker of similar quality (why else sell Best?).

 

Also, he's proved to be able to be a 1 in 2 striker for us over a full calender year (albeit partly in the Championship) and a half season in the Premiership. Over the course of their careers and even time with us in Ba's case, is that so much worse than Ba and Cisse's records? And that's before we even mention what else Carroll brought to the table in his time here, such as an actual threat from set pieces (Williamson flick on at the edge of the box anyone?) and the best defensive header for corners and opposition set pieces.

 

Not sure you have noted that Wullie is not a fan of Carroll's.

[Ash]

Is it overly cynical of me to suggest that we have some part to play in him saying he only wants to leave on loan?

 

Thought exactly the same thing myself.

[Wullie]

I'd pick Ba and Cisse. Not even an argument to be made for me. We were catapulted from nowhere by those two, they're exceptional at scoring every type of goal, link up play, everything. Can't believe anyone who watched the Premier League and NUFC last year would want to go back.

[ponsaelius]

[Wullie]

Of course he'd be a bench player, he's nowhere near as good as the two players ahead of him.

 

If we were to line up in a 442 due to tactical considerations (like we did vs Man U at home for example), would you prefer Ba and Cisse to Carroll and Cisse or even Carroll and Ba? I don't think I would, and even then it's assuming Ba and Cisse will be fit and available to play for every single match this upcoming season unless we get in another striker of similar quality (why else sell Best?).

 

Also, he's proved to be able to be a 1 in 2 striker for us over a full calender year (albeit partly in the Championship) and a half season in the Premiership. Over the course of their careers and even time with us in Ba's case, is that so much worse than Ba and Cisse's records? And that's before we even mention what else Carroll brought to the table in his time here, such as an actual threat from set pieces (Williamson flick on at the edge of the box anyone?) and the best defensive header for corners and opposition set pieces.

 

Not sure you have noted that Wullie is not a fan of Carroll's.

 

I was, and didn't want to sell him but quite apart from the fact he totally burned his bridges, we lucked out and found ourselves with two players who ultimately made us better than he ever could.

 

Now people want to go back.

 

Why don't we get Barton and Nolan back too while we're at it and give Cabaye and Ben Arfa some bench time?

[Guest bimpy474]

I'd pick Ba and Cisse. Not even an argument to be made for me. We were catapulted from nowhere by those two, they're exceptional at scoring every type of goal, link up play, everything. Can't believe anyone who watched the Premier League and NUFC last year would want to go back.

 

Back to what though ?. We didn't exactly smash it forward when Carroll was here before.

 

Now if you are talking about the adverse affect in the dressing room and on squad harmony he might have, i'd be inclinded to go along with you. Apart from the Taylor jaw incident has he ever been that bad in the dressing room ?. Not heard about anything else myself.