Baggio Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 If it was Obertan who backeheeled it then the reaction of some on here would be far different. Obertan was getting criticised at the game for Ba over hitting a pass to Jonas, simply because he was the one that passed it to Ba in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Spot on Nath, I was sitting down at the front of the Gallowgate and every time he got the ball we were up off our seats. Been so long since we had a player as exciting as this. There were also some fans behind me criticising him for losing the ball and not tackling hard enough, but I dismissed them as idiots. Does Baggio sit behind you? You have to bear in mind that at every football ground there are going to be supporters who fail to see the bigger picture. We were going nowhere with best and Ba up front, and Best in particular was having a fairly poor game. Ben Arfa when he came on immediately started dropping into spaces between the midfield and the front man and started pulling the midfield defenders out of position. Yes he over dribbled it a couple of times but if we'd kept passing it sideways, backwards, then launch 50 yards long like in the first half we would never have won. Not every fan has the ability to see past his nose so seeing a few dickheads getting frustrated should be expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 If it was Obertan who backheeled it then the reaction of some on here would be far different. It would yeah & so it should be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Spot on Nath, I was sitting down at the front of the Gallowgate and every time he got the ball we were up off our seats. Been so long since we had a player as exciting as this. There were also some fans behind me criticising him for losing the ball and not tackling hard enough, but I dismissed them as idiots. Does Baggio sit behind you? You have to bear in mind that at every football ground there are going to be supporters who fail to see the bigger picture. We were going nowhere with best and Ba up front, and Best in particular was having a fairly poor game. Ben Arfa when he came on immediately started dropping into spaces between the midfield and the front man and started pulling the midfield defenders out of position. Yes he over dribbled it a couple of times but if we'd kept passing it sideways, backwards, then launch 50 yards long like in the first half we would never have won. Not every fan has the ability to see past his nose so seeing a few dickheads getting frustrated should be expected. I take it you were not at the game then as Best was quite a bit better than Ba the first half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Spot on Nath, I was sitting down at the front of the Gallowgate and every time he got the ball we were up off our seats. Been so long since we had a player as exciting as this. There were also some fans behind me criticising him for losing the ball and not tackling hard enough, but I dismissed them as idiots. Does Baggio sit behind you? You have to bear in mind that at every football ground there are going to be supporters who fail to see the bigger picture. We were going nowhere with best and Ba up front, and Best in particular was having a fairly poor game. Ben Arfa when he came on immediately started dropping into spaces between the midfield and the front man and started pulling the midfield defenders out of position. Yes he over dribbled it a couple of times but if we'd kept passing it sideways, backwards, then launch 50 yards long like in the first half we would never have won. Not every fan has the ability to see past his nose so seeing a few dickheads getting frustrated should be expected. I take it you were not at the game then as Best was quite a bit better than Ba the first half. Actually agree on this one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In fairness, I am all for giving Ben Arfa time etc etc - but that backheel was bloody awful and completely brainless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In fairness, I am all for giving Ben Arfa time etc etc - but that backheel was bloody awful and completely brainless. Obviously, I don't blame anyone for criticising that. That said, if you have a flair player he will try to do things with flair, and those will sometimes be low-percentage things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In fairness, I am all for giving Ben Arfa time etc etc - but that backheel was bloody awful and completely brainless. Brainless? And what if it came off, genius? The lads rusty, off the pace is all. A few matches from now and I expect he'll be firing on a few more cylinders than currently. Only one way to get that competitive edge is playing games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Didn't come off though and left us completely open to their attack. I don't see why people are arguing here, he came on, showed some glimpses of what he will be like once up to speed and also did a few things which reminded you how long he's been out for. When he clicks back into the flow of things some team is going to get an absolute pounding. Would be perfect if that happened to be Man City. We can dream. Why did it not come off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In fairness, I am all for giving Ben Arfa time etc etc - but that backheel was bloody awful and completely brainless. Rubbish, Ben Arfa was running away from the Wigan goal and he looked up and saw Cabaye making a run, he waited a couple of seconds and played the ball not knowing that Cabaye had stopped his run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Curls Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Id imagine not all the players are on the same wave length as Ben arfa and can't anticipate certain things he's doing, he should really just tone it down for the time being and play a simple game and he will be instantly effective. Like many have said his ability to pull players out of position is fantastic(he normally has three or four players fumbling over themselves) and this in turn allowed others more time on the ball. It's early days for hatem but no one here can deny he's a fantastic individual, he just needs to remember it's a team game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In fairness, I am all for giving Ben Arfa time etc etc - but that backheel was bloody awful and completely brainless. Rubbish, Ben Arfa was running away from the Wigan goal and he looked up and saw Cabaye making a run, he waited a couple of seconds and played the ball not knowing that Cabaye had stopped his run. Why was he running away from the Wigan goal (he was actually running across the pitch more than away from the Wigan goal)? Because he had already delayed passing the ball to Cabaye about 5 seconds earlier in order to hold onto the ball. Cabaye was standing in exactly the same place when Ben Arfa tried the backheel - except that the option for the pass had now been closed off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 In fairness, I am all for giving Ben Arfa time etc etc - but that backheel was bloody awful and completely brainless. Brainless? And what if it came off, genius? The lads rusty, off the pace is all. A few matches from now and I expect he'll be firing on a few more cylinders than currently. Only one way to get that competitive edge is playing games. I've already said he needs more time. I think he is an incredibly talented footballer who hopefully will be an absolute hero for us. But... I still think the backheel was brainless and I stand by that. Yes, flair players will try high risk, low percentage stuff but they also need to have an appreciation for when the simple ball will suffice. In this particular instance, I don't think Ben Arfa made the right choice and could have potentially been a costly error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Rubbish, Ben Arfa was running away from the Wigan goal and he looked up and saw Cabaye making a run, he waited a couple of seconds and played the ball not knowing that Cabaye had stopped his run. Nah. I got the feeling he didn't so much wait for Cabaye but rather hesitated not doing it but then did do the flick out of desperation more than anything. Which meant it didn't have much power on it and had very little chance reaching Cabaye anyway. I'm all for him trying stuff but in that particular instance it was over indulgent and almost plain stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLvOR Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Can't believe people rinsing Ben Arfa man.... chillax he's only just back for goodness sake, so what if a flairly flick didn't come off, it wasn't costly. Let him create, let him do these high risk moves, because when they come off, it's gona be magic for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Good to see the majority in this thread are sensible. Couldn't believe the criticism. Seconded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why was he running away from the Wigan goal (he was actually running across the pitch more than away from the Wigan goal)? Because he had already delayed passing the ball to Cabaye about 5 seconds earlier in order to hold onto the ball. Cabaye was standing in exactly the same place when Ben Arfa tried the backheel - except that the option for the pass had now been closed off. We'd just had a corner and the ball had been cleared and picked up by Ryan Taylor who played it to Simpson who then played the ball to Tiote. Tiote played the ball forward to Ben Arfa who played the ball back to Tiote, Ben Arfa then headed away from goal and into space. The ball was played forward of Tiote and forward of Ben Arfa who was facing away from the Wigan goal. Ben Arfa was running away from goal because Tiote passed the ball to him while he was running into space in that direction and he let it run. He was running across the pitch and away from goal while being tracked by Watson. Ben Arfa looked to his right and saw Cabaye was making a cross field run between two Wigan players and Coloccini and possibly Taylor who were on the edge of the Wigan area. Ben Arfa turned away slightly more towards our end for a couple of seconds as if to feign a run and he played the ball to where Cabaye would have been if he carried on his run. Cabaye was probably two to three yards from the 18 yard box and roughly in line with the D. Cabaye was running towards the centre of the pitch when Ben Arfa looked up. No way could any player have found Cabaye with the ball at that point as the Ref and a Wigan player were both between the two. Cabaye did stop running while Ben Arfa was facing the other way to him and couldn't have known that Cabaye had stopped his run unless he's got eyes in the back of his head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Needs to stop trying to take the entire team on & also trying to dribble past everyone when he's open to the shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It takes a while to recover from leg breaks and ligament injuries. You look at someone like Ramsey and look at how long he's taken to recover to be a semblance of the quick-footed midfielder that he was before. It's been almost 18 months and just now he's starting to look like he's fully recovered. Even when he had a run of games at the end of last season, he looked slow and the agility wasn't completely there, similar to what I see from Ben Arfa. He was fully fit in the sense that he could play a whole match and not look fucked after 60 minutes, but he wasn't fully recovered. I can see the same thing happen with Ben Arfa. He'll recover his fitness much quicker and he'll probably be starting for us every match by mid to late November, but his touch and quickness will probably take until early next year to fully come back. And if you think that Ramsey's an isolated case then Valencia is another excellent example of a player who suffered a ligament injury/leg break, who even though fully fit now, has not recovered his touch and agility yet. He was playing towards the end of last season but didn't look like the player that he was, even though he was fully fit. I hope Ben Arfa recovers fully because I really rate him - he's potentially our 'Suarez' player ie. someone who single-handedly is the difference between winning and losing - but there are cases like Eduardo and Smith who had ligament injuries/breaks who never fully recover. For what it's worth, Ben Arfa looks like he's about 70% of the player that he was and this is after two matches from two pretty serious injuries, so it looks like he'll fully recover; it's just a matter of when. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Nah. I got the feeling he didn't so much wait for Cabaye but rather hesitated not doing it but then did do the flick out of desperation more than anything. Which meant it didn't have much power on it and had very little chance reaching Cabaye anyway. I'm all for him trying stuff but in that particular instance it was over indulgent and almost plain stupid. Jonas was an easy pass as he was in front of Ben Arfa when he was running with the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Spot on Nath, I was sitting down at the front of the Gallowgate and every time he got the ball we were up off our seats. Been so long since we had a player as exciting as this. There were also some fans behind me criticising him for losing the ball and not tackling hard enough, but I dismissed them as idiots. Does Baggio sit behind you? You have to bear in mind that at every football ground there are going to be supporters who fail to see the bigger picture. We were going nowhere with best and Ba up front, and Best in particular was having a fairly poor game. Ben Arfa when he came on immediately started dropping into spaces between the midfield and the front man and started pulling the midfield defenders out of position. Yes he over dribbled it a couple of times but if we'd kept passing it sideways, backwards, then launch 50 yards long like in the first half we would never have won. Not every fan has the ability to see past his nose so seeing a few dickheads getting frustrated should be expected. I take it you were not at the game then as Best was quite a bit better than Ba the first half. I was at the game, both Best and Ba were fairly ordinary IMO, you could have took either one off. There was a massive gap between the forwards and midfield, a problem we've had all season in my view, good results or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The massive gap was between Ba and Best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 BTW, some of Ben Arfa's movement was sublime. A couple of times receiving the ball he feigned one way then went the other to take it the wrong side of the defender. Just class....not many players would even contemplate the things he does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 And Ramsey's not just an example that I'm kind of making up. Wenger has come out and said the same thing. He looks a different player to the one that played towards the end of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The massive gap was between Ba and Best. That's because one or the other was dropping off to fill the gap in midfield. Same difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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