JH Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Don't think the wing is for him tbh. He doesn't do enough tracking back/'hard work' to offer the protection that Simpson requires. He needs a free role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 i just had a go at obertan in his thread...but jesus man...arfa was even worse yesterday! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 i just had a go at obertan in his thread...but jesus man...arfa was even worse yesterday! What was it he done that was so bad? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 i just had a go at obertan in his thread...but jesus man...arfa was even worse yesterday! Obertan was worse than Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 There were one or two occasions yesterday when I felt that a decent pass was available to him, but he hung on to the ball that bit longer, looking for the absolute killer ball. It disrupted the rhythm of our attack. I'm not talking about knocking it backwards or sideways just to keep possession. It's great that he has his head up and looks to thread the ball forward. But he seemed reluctant to settle for the only moderately positive pass, if you get my drift. That's something in his head that he needs to sort out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thought it was very premature bringing him off at HT. He wasn't up to scratch but as one of flair plays I'm sure there was a better way to accomodate him and Shola, possibily dropping him back to the wing. As an aside anyone else get the feeling we may go 433 once Maiga and another full back arrives, with Modibo/Jonas/HBA supporting Ba? This would only involve two signings,one of them apparently already done..... Krul Santon. Taylor. Colo. New LB Guthrie. Tiote. Cabaye Ben Arfa. Maiga Ba That looks tasty, Ronaldo is gonna start foaming in the mouth though that his manlove Best might not be in the first team, which would make it even better! I spent the entire summer advocating a new striker to start alongside Demba Ba. I've done the same recently in regard to Maiga. Try again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Jonas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Was in acres unmarked at one point at the start of the first half but I think it was Ba it made the wrong decision to go solo. would have stuck that chance away I reckon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 He lacks fitness and confidence (there's a lack of wanting to get involved, which wasn't the case before) but he's never going to work in the hole unless we base the system around him, which I don't think Pards is truly comfortable with doing. I agree with Ronaldo about the wing spot and i've been a big fan of the idea of him as a free role player. Even if it's just to let him find his feet, get some form, confidence and let him experience the English game a bit first. In theory, a number 10 role should work with Ba having excellent movement off the shoulder and good pace but you need a forward moving midfield and full backs for a 4-4-1-1 system to really be effective, it has to fluid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The match at Everton which everyone wanks over and rightly so, didn't he play on the wing then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yup. Played on the left with license to roam it appeared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binnsy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Don't think its working playing him "in the hole" i would think we would be better off playing him on the right and let him play like Modric did when Spurs came up here, play on the right but with the licence to come inside and link up with the strikers and likes of Cabaye in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The match at Everton which everyone wanks over and rightly so, didn't he play on the wing then? He did, his best work definitely came through the middle in that one but that might not be a coincidence as he wasn't naturally meant to be there. He's a tough one to place though because when Stoke played up here, they just sat back and him drifting in all the time played into their hands, just tightening things up in the middle. There are certainly form and confidence issues there, he was all over the place when he played for us last year, constantly coming to get the ball, almost directing our attacking play but that isn't there now, perhaps it's tactical? I think for now, he should be played on the right, just at least to find some form, fitness and consistency, he needs a good run of games and then we can look at him off the striker. Now isn't the time to judge, now's the time to be careful with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Look at Mata, he plays on the wing. That's what we should look to do with him it's very simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 There were one or two occasions yesterday when I felt that a decent pass was available to him, but he hung on to the ball that bit longer, looking for the absolute killer ball. It disrupted the rhythm of our attack. I'm not talking about knocking it backwards or sideways just to keep possession. It's great that he has his head up and looks to thread the ball forward. But he seemed reluctant to settle for the only moderately positive pass, if you get my drift. That's something in his head that he needs to sort out. Not sure it's as simple as that though. We want him to unlock defences, what if he's giving the average pass too often and misses the chance to develop the play and make the killer one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Look at Mata, he plays on the wing. That's what we should look to do with him it's very simple. He's not Mata though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Pardew basically has to rethink his stance about Ben Arfa. You can't just restrict him to just the number 10 role, you can play him on the wing when necessary - after all, his best performance in a NUFC shirt came from playing on the left wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Best and Ba up front and stick him on the wing and get him running at people, he's going to do far more than Obertan does at present so what's there to lose. Really can't see Pardew doing that though he'll still persist with Obertan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Definately needs to be stuck out on wing once Best is fit again. Hasn't done enough to nail down that spot, done enough to be in the squad still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Just don't see why he can't play on the wing. Especially since we seem to be willing to go as far as playing Lovenkrands out of position to leave him up front. Pardew needs to be a bit more flexible here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Pardew basically has to rethink his stance about Ben Arfa. You can't just restrict him to just the number 10 role, you can play him on the wing when necessary - after all, his best performance in a NUFC shirt came from playing on the left wing. This. I'm all for changing the tactics when it isn't working, but personally think Pardew got it wrong leaving Obertan on. He was diabolical and I can't actually remember anything good from him all game. He's only played well for us away from home, his passing, crossing and decision making are barely at Championship level. Lovenkrands also flattered to deceive, showed the odd glimpse, but he's not a winger and just disappeared for big large parts. I thought maybe AP was worried about HBA not offering R.Taylor any protection, but he didn't get sod all from Lovenkrands anyway. I love Pards, but this Ben Arfa can't/won't play out wide is bollocks. Not working playing him in the no.10 role ATM, still lacking sharpness and the team have no idea how to utilise him effectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 He's played out wide loads tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Playing out wide there's also less pressure on him to "run the entire game" so that if a play breaks down all the focus is on him. I'd much rather see his talent used to run at people or creating chances for two strikers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Playing out wide there's also less pressure on him to "run the entire game" so that if a play breaks down all the focus is on him. I'd much rather see his talent used to run at people or creating chances for two strikers. Exactly. He could also drift in off the line and would find himself with more time and space a lot of the time. Seems to be crowded out and marked quite well when playing centrally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 There were one or two occasions yesterday when I felt that a decent pass was available to him, but he hung on to the ball that bit longer, looking for the absolute killer ball. It disrupted the rhythm of our attack. I'm not talking about knocking it backwards or sideways just to keep possession. It's great that he has his head up and looks to thread the ball forward. But he seemed reluctant to settle for the only moderately positive pass, if you get my drift. That's something in his head that he needs to sort out. Not sure it's as simple as that though. We want him to unlock defences, what if he's giving the average pass too often and misses the chance to develop the play and make the killer one? I guess I'm talking about striking the right balance between shifting the ball on quickly, which can have the advantage of keeping a defence off-balance, and keeping hold, with a view to beating the man or finding the killer ball. I felt on Saturday that, at times, he passed up the opportunity to play a quick ball that would still keep the defence on its toes, in order to look for something more threatening. It didn't seem to work, because his team-mates then seemed unsure when or if he was going to release the ball, and the defence had time to get set. I think it can be a problem for players like HBA, who can get past opponents in ways that other players can't. It's almost like they end up with too many options. I know that Wenger always monitors how long each of his players keep hold of the ball on average. He wants them to shift it on quickly and maintain the rhythm of an attack. HBA loves to keep hold of the ball and find the one killer ball, and it's something he needs to adjust in his game. Situations will arise where he can use his special skill at beating his man (eg against Man City, when he hit the post), and he needs to be a bit more patient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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