nobby_solano Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I can just hear the waspish comments that the great man would have made when he watched Nolan training....! now then young man, you can chuck all your pies and your burgers and your hotdogs in the biggest f***ing dustbin you can find. i want to see some elbow grease from you and not the stuff that's running down your arms from that kebab that you're eating neither Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I can just hear the waspish comments that the great man would have made when he watched Nolan training....! now then young man, you can chuck all your pies and your burgers and your hotdogs in the biggest f***ing dustbin you can find. i want to see some elbow grease from you and not the stuff that's running down your arms from that kebab that you're eating neither Now, young man, that is very, very good - who the 'ell d'ya think you are ? Bill Shankly!!?? Very good indeed Nobby and about spot on too.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Trying to defy that "senior" players will hold sway on a manager is like trying to defy gravity. It has always happened from the Northern League to the World Cup and it always will. Brian Clough would always play McGovern despite his shortcomings because he saw him as his lieutenant on the field. Often a senior player's nous and presence can outweigh a younger players speed and enthusiasm in the bigger scheme, but the right balance is of course essential. Wait until Guthrie and Gosling enter the mix, this debate could really hot up. A good summary of the counter-argument. Gosling in particular could threaten Nolan's place in the side. Gosling is a midfielder, Nolan if I'm not mistaken is playing as a striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Trying to defy that "senior" players will hold sway on a manager is like trying to defy gravity. It has always happened from the Northern League to the World Cup and it always will. Brian Clough would always play McGovern despite his shortcomings because he saw him as his lieutenant on the field. Often a senior player's nous and presence can outweigh a younger players speed and enthusiasm in the bigger scheme, but the right balance is of course essential. Wait until Guthrie and Gosling enter the mix, this debate could really hot up. A good summary of the counter-argument. Gosling in particular could threaten Nolan's place in the side. Gosling is a midfielder, Nolan if I'm not mistaken is playing as a striker. Until last season, we'd have defined Nolan as a midfielder as well. Playing either player in that position isn't ideal, but I think Gosling could step up to it. I wouldn't say that about Guthrie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 It's much sadder that Hughton seems to think that Nolan is playing in "the hole" rather than up front alongside Carroll. Playing in the hole, you're supposed to actually link midfield and attack, drop into clever places between the oppositions' defense and midfield and make things happen and create chances for your teammates. Nolan basically waddles around the shop for 90 minutes doing his level best to avoid anything resembling link up play in deeper areas, and then gets his arse in gear when someone else on the team creates an opportunity for something to happen in the box. To his credit he does read the game very well, which is why he gets on the end of quite a few chances. But he's basically a big fat goalhanger, this nonsense that he's playing in some sort of free role is just laughable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Nolan is a midfielder, he's just nowhere near good enough to be one in the Premier League. That doesn't mean he's suddenly become some sort of Van Der Vaart-style playmaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 It's much sadder that Hughton seems to think that Nolan is playing in "the hole" rather than up front alongside Carroll. Playing in the hole, you're supposed to actually link midfield and attack, drop into clever places between the oppositions' defense and midfield and make things happen and create chances for your teammates. Nolan basically waddles around the shop for 90 minutes doing his level best to avoid anything resembling link up play in deeper areas, and then gets his arse in gear when someone else on the team creates an opportunity for something to happen in the box. To his credit he does read the game very well, which is why he gets on the end of quite a few chances. But he's basically a big fat goalhanger, this nonsense that he's playing in some sort of free role is just laughable. he's not exactly playing up front - if he was he'd be there to link up with carroll and pull one of the opposition centre halves away from him, or drift out to the flanks and create for others. but he's not doing any creating or even linking with barton/tiote either. i think the best way to sum up Nolan's involvement is in a Cahill role (only without Cahill's energy), making late runs into the box and being gobby. that's about it as far as his contribution goes. Not sure that Ben Arfa would be better though as I think we need someone who is capable of making runs beyond Carroll and we failed to bring in that sort of player in the summer. ben Arfa could certainly link with midfield and create more than Nolan, but he'd probably score less than Nolan and, as he drops deep, we'd be relying on Carroll's movement to lead the line. as we've seen this season, that's not Carroll's strength, he needs a Bellamy to do some of the running for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 He didn't have a Bellamy in the Championship. Lovenkrands is small and that's where the similarity ends. We whipped lots of crosses into the box and he was usually quicker, smarter and bigger than the defender marking him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Interesting comparison with Cahill as an Evertonian mate of mine often has the same complaints with him that we do with Nolan. Ie that if he's not scoring goals, he brings little to the side and the whole side suffers as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Cahill's last 3 PL season stats compared to Nolan's would probably make imbalanced reading, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 He didn't have a Bellamy in the Championship. Lovenkrands is small and that's where the similarity ends. We whipped lots of crosses into the box and he was usually quicker, smarter and bigger than the defender marking him. Loven might not be the quickest anymore but he has intelligent movement, which at championship level is enough to make an impact. not good enough for the premiership, though i'd be willing to give him a go in the winnable home games. point is, carroll is better when someone is making good runs and playing level with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I've had a quick look at the stat's for Nolan who has started every game and Ben Arfa so see what they've both done. All numbers come from http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create Goals Nolan 3, Ben Arfa 1. Shots (excluding goals) Nolan 12, Ben Arfa 4. Passes Nolan 161, Ben Arfa 67. Interceptions Nolan 6, Ben Arfa 7. Tackles Nolan 16, Ben Arfa 23. Clearances Nolan 4, Ben Arfa 0. Blocks Nolan 3, Ben Arfa 0. Free Kicks Won Nolan 4, Ben Arfa 2. Free Kicks Conceded Nolan 19, Ben Arfa 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Trying to defy that "senior" players will hold sway on a manager is like trying to defy gravity. It has always happened from the Northern League to the World Cup and it always will. Brian Clough would always play McGovern despite his shortcomings because he saw him as his lieutenant on the field. Often a senior player's nous and presence can outweigh a younger players speed and enthusiasm in the bigger scheme, but the right balance is of course essential. Wait until Guthrie and Gosling enter the mix, this debate could really hot up. A good summary of the counter-argument. Gosling in particular could threaten Nolan's place in the side. Gosling is a midfielder, Nolan if I'm not mistaken is playing as a striker. Until last season, we'd have defined Nolan as a midfielder as well. Playing either player in that position isn't ideal, but I think Gosling could step up to it. I wouldn't say that about Guthrie. We haven't seen Gosling in action, but the Everton fans seem to think he lacks pace - if so, then we are little better off playing him as a withdrawn striker than by using Nolan there ; it is a striker with pace that we need because Carroll isn't that quick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 That clearly shows the difference in intelligence on the field between the two, Ben Arfa's anticipation off the ball is ridiculously better. 19 fouls conceded ffs. Has Ben Arfa really won 23 tackles in 2 ish games though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 On one hand we have one of the most exciting young players in Europe at the moment, multiple winner of Ligue 1 and a player seen as the future of the French national team. On the other hand we have an apparent overweight, slow midfielder that sometimes scores a few goals against shit opposition that are slower than him and was once seen surplus at Bolton prior to coming here. The choice is obvious, just compare the two, naturally we must play Nolan. He's the obvious choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 On one hand we have one of the most exciting young players in Europe at the moment, multiple winner of Ligue 1 and a player seen as the future of the French national team. On the other hand we have an apparent overweight, slow midfielder that sometimes scores a few goals against shit opposition that are slower than him and was once seen surplus at Bolton prior to coming here. The choice is obvious, just compare the two, naturally we must play Nolan. He's the obvious choice. It's depressing when you put it like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Nolan 19 fouls conceded. That's mint Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Nolan 19 fouls conceded. That's mint No, 19 free kicks conceded. Nearly half of those are through balls where the recipient was offside. For comparison's sake, Carroll has conceded 20, all of which were fouls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Nolan 19 fouls conceded. That's mint No, 19 free kicks conceded. Nearly half of those are through balls where the recipient was offside. For comparison's sake, Carroll has conceded 20, all of which were fouls. How do you know how many free kicks were for offside? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Nolan 19 fouls conceded. That's mint No, 19 free kicks conceded. Nearly half of those are through balls where the recipient was offside. For comparison's sake, Carroll has conceded 20, all of which were fouls. How do you know how many free kicks were for offside? He went through every single minute of our play this season and counted. Either that or he's seen a few offsides for Nolan and taken a wild stab in the dark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 He went through every single minute of our play this season and counted. Either that or he's seen a few offsides for Nolan and taken a wild stab in the dark My guess is a stab in the dark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 He went through every single minute of our play this season and counted. Either that or he's seen a few offsides for Nolan and taken a wild stab in the dark My guess is a stab in the dark. Well it would be wouldn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Stats are only relatively useful to assess a player anyway, either for or against. Most people who watch quality football teams can see that a fat, slow footballer up front is only going to be effective from set pieces. Now Gazza wasn't particularly quick and could look a bit tubby but he was phenomenally gifted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I wonder if Nolan was in the Tottenham squad would 'Arry would play him in place of VDV? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I wonder if we would be so cavalier about Nolan if was dropped for Smith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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