Arsene Wenger

[MW]

schesney landed in his lap as much as krul did in ours

[Cronky]

Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager.

 

Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened.

 

It hasn't helped, but to lay arsenals problems down to just that is naive to say the least.

 

I didn't say it was Arsenal's only problem. What we're talking about is what happened after 2005 to create the Arsenal trophy drought. I don't think Wenger turned into a bad manager. The opposition changed. Chelsea created a completely different financial climate, and only Man U and now Man City have been able to keep up with them.

 

A lot of other clubs have struggled to win a trophy. Arsenal are highlighted because they were so successful before. Of the 18 domestic trophies in the last six seasons, 13 have gone to Man U and Chelsea. No-one else has won more than one trophy.

 

Look at the players they've lost to richer clubs - Nasri, Fabregas, Toure, Adebayor, Clichy, Cole. It's like Wenger's only able to develop his side to a certain point and then someone goes. And how many other players have gone to those clubs that previously Arsenal might have signed?

 

Well 'that's what's happened' implies differently. 

 

Anyway, to go in to it the opposition has changed but it is only a minor factor in what has happened, otherwise you wouldn't see Tottenham where they are now, or hand Birmingham a League Cup. Tottenham have bought well, like other teams including ourselves, Tiote and Cabaye would easily fit in to Arsenal's team, where was Wenger when they were snapped up, or even the likes of Santon, highly rated young fullback who can play both sides, no he's gone for that Santos bloke who is shite, cost more and is a panic buy. Wenger has forced himself in to panic buying, who'd have ever thought that would happen? Same story when going for the German tanker (another panic buy) at the back instead of going for the proven Cahill, young and talented, and people who say Arsenal can't pay the wages so Wenger's hands are tied were shown to be wrong on that one, Cahill didn't want the earth and it was to do with the transfer fee, again 100% controlled by Wenger and not the club.

 

He goes out and buys the likes of Gervinho and Chamerblain while having failing forward/wingers on the books in Walcott, Arshavin etc without offloading them, he sticks with two failed keepers for years making massive blunders and is fuking bloody lucky SirChesney has landed in his lap or everything right now would be 10 times as bad, or he'd have went with Alumina for another 4 seasons. The centre of the park is void of leadership, in fact the whole squad is, someone who could have filled it easily enough, for cheap, Scott Parker, went to their rivals. Parker would have been all over Arsenal if they went for it, instead...Arteta, who is a good player, but consistent, impressionable and gritty he isn't, and that's what's missing. Think Moyes would play Arteta without having protection in the centre? No chance.

 

Arsenal have a great plan A, but don't have the players to pull it off anymore, and plan B doesn't exist because Wenger is so adamant his first policy is spot on and won't change a damn thing. Stubborn doesnt cover it by a long shot.

 

Wenger seems to think he can play his way out of trouble, but he can't his problems on the pitch lie in the heads of his players, as well as his own fans and opposition. Everyone sees Arsenal as a soft touch and should be treated as such, no one respects them apart from RVP, and Arsenal of old has 4-5 players of that quality in the team, which is where you point comes in as he doesn't have them any more, but its his job to replace them. Modric and Bale didn't arrive ready made handed to Spurs on a plate, Arsenal could have afforded and attracted them two at the time and there are many players out there which are the next gen and they are missing out on. Chamberlain will come good, solid player but in this Arsenal team under this Wenger, he'll become a Walcott MKII, there's nothing more than that for him here.

 

Wenger needs to go tough, get some strength, leadership, height and cunning in the team, at the back and in the centre mainly, then the rest of his flair plan will work, until then as soon as pressure is applied apart from Song it all falls apart spectacularly.

 

We could get into a debate about the quality of many of the players you've mentioned, but I reckon we'd then be missing the wood for the trees.

 

You haven't really commented on the points that I raised. Would you accept that, in the pre-Abramovich, pre-Mansour days, Arsenal would have probably been able to keep hold of the likes of Clichy, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure and Cole (players who have gone to nouveau riche rivals), and therefore be in a much stronger position?

 

Would you also accept that, if the pre-2005 side was operating in the current financial climate, Arsenal would have probably failed to keep hold of the likes of Henry and Bergkamp?

[Dokko]

Just to touch quickly; arsenal aren't losing their best players due to money, they are losing them due to lack of success, players aren't signing new deals because they see a club in decline, if they were winning trophies, challenging for the title, for example Nasri would have signed a new deal. I don't rate clichy, think sagna is twice the player and cesc was an exceptional circumstance (returning to his boyhood club which happens to be the best in the world) as for tour and adebayor, are they worth £150kpw each? I don't think so, nowhere near.

 

I suppose it's a vicious circle, but arsenal have a league title winning budget on both transfers and wages, yet it's been spent incorrectly and they are suffering for it. Got to remember the like of the players mentioned were signed from somewhere else beforehand, replacing players who were deemed irreplaceable, just got to look at Fergie to see how many times he's recycled Manu, Wenger hasn't done it and the only restrictions in place are the ones imposed on himself.

 

It was also Wenger who took great pride in offloading anyone over 32, while only offering them one year extensions, he knew when to sell, overmars, petit spring to mind, no contract for pires. These were all his decisions, forced upon by him.

 

London club, big stadium, massive budget, it's got everything going for it, more so than flash in the pan citeh, or even Chelsea both who aren't self sustainable and don't have a great a history as arsenal, problem is arsenal aren't making history any more.

 

 

[Parky]

For me a lot of the problems started with not replacing Adebayor who was the focal point of their attack and gave them some muscle upfront. I mean who did Whinger bring in? Chamakh who looks like a badminton player.

He buys too many good looking young boys with promise. 

[johnnypd]

I think they lost Nasri due to the money City were waving about, but i'm not so sure this is the case for the other players. Let's also not forget that Arsenal received a shit load of cash for these outgoings, so it's not like they have been left empty handed. They've also made plenty of money from the new stadium and property developments. Fact is Wenger has money to spend and either hasn't spent it or hasn't spent it wisely. He's got too many wasters in the side - players like Squillaci, Chamakh, Mertesacker, Arteta, Santos, Arshavin, Walcott, Gervinho, Koscielney, Park, Rosicky and so on. Even the better players are mentally fragile. He puts too much faith in youngsters who either aren't good enough or, if they reach their potential, want away. The wage structure seems mental too, he needs to give squad players less money and better players more, instead of giving mediocre shite incredible money for very little return.

[Parky]

Chamakh, Arshavin, Rosicky are clearly finished/had enough/going through the motions.

[johnnypd]

For me a lot of the problems started with not replacing Adebayor who was the focal point of their attack and gave them some muscle upfront. I mean who did Whinger bring in? Chamakh who looks like a badminton player.

 

Totally agree btw - RVP as good as he is doesn't have the all round game of Rooney or Drogba at his peak - he's not who you want to rely on to provide physical presence or even creative link-up play on his own. Feel sorry for the lad that he doesn't have the support he needs - if he did he'd look even better.

 

Anyway you just have to look at the players he had in his previous sides to see the huge differences - Keown, Adams, Bould, Vieira, Campbell, Toure, Lehmann, Petit, Gilberto - big intimidating players both physically and mentally. Even their "softer" skill players like Henry, Edu or Bergkamp were good physical specimens each at 6 ft 2 and Henry could shield the ball as well as anyone. And comparing Ljungberg, Overmars or Pires to Walcott, Rosicky and Arshavin I personally think they've suffered ever since putting Fabregas in midfield - they lost the solid, physical base that Wenger used to build his sides around. They used to be one of the biggest and quickest teams in the league. It used to be that the strikers like Henry and Bergkamp were the main playmakers instead of someone who plays deeper. Been downhill ever since.

 

And hell, even their possession game has gone to shit this season. Swansea properly schooled them and their flow and rhythm gets severely disrupted even against average prem side. Even a couple of years ago they could still dominate 95% of teams - and even then the usual complaints about a soft centre, shit on set pieces, fluffing chances, failing to shoot and bottling big occasions were brought up. Now they're not even good enough to bottle stuff.

 

Massively lucky to currently find themselves in the top four imo, be amazed if they finish there considering their usual mental collapse from feb onwards most years.

[Ketsbaia]

They also have Denilson, Bendtner, Vela to get rid of - so much dross and deadwood.

[Sifu]

They have badly missed Wilshere in CM too.

[Cronky]

Just to make a different point - they've had a particularly difficult time this season with injuries, and whilst they've not been as competitive over the last few years, their problems this season have somewhat distorted the picture.

 

Szczesny

Sagna Koscielny Vermaelen Gibbs

Wilshere Song Ramsey

Ox-Chamb Van Persie Gervinho

 

is actually a pretty good side.

[johnnypd]

They have badly missed Wilshere in CM too.

 

very true, but they've gotten to a point where they rely on a lad who has just turned 20. like people desperate for oxlade chamberlain he start every match - he's too young. he looked out of his depth against sunderland, for example - he wasn't, but he will have games like that being raw, inexperienced and less physically developed.

[Sifu]

They have badly missed Wilshere in CM too.

 

very true, but they've gotten to a point where they rely on a lad who has just turned 20. like people desperate for oxlade chamberlain he start every match - he's too young. he looked out of his depth against sunderland, for example - he wasn't, but he will have games like that being raw, inexperienced and less physically developed.

 

Indeed but imo, Wilshere has actually "made the grade". Overall, he was great last season (first proper one too) and can only get better. He is such an important player for them, so much so that it's got to the point where his age doesn't really matter anymore. Oxlade-Chamberlain however is a different story, he has bags of talent but it is his first season in the PL and he is only 18,

[johnnypd]

They have badly missed Wilshere in CM too.

 

very true, but they've gotten to a point where they rely on a lad who has just turned 20. like people desperate for oxlade chamberlain he start every match - he's too young. he looked out of his depth against sunderland, for example - he wasn't, but he will have games like that being raw, inexperienced and less physically developed.

 

Indeed but imo, Wilshere has actually "made the grade". Overall, he was great last season (first proper one too) and can only get better. He is such an important player for them, so much so that it's got to the point where his age doesn't really matter anymore. Oxlade-Chamberlain however is a different story, he has bags of talent but it is his first season in the PL and he is only 18,

 

Yeah i totally agree however teenage players are likely to break down now and then or have dips as they get used to the rigours of professional football which is where relying on them becomes a bit risky.

[Sifu]

They have badly missed Wilshere in CM too.

 

very true, but they've gotten to a point where they rely on a lad who has just turned 20. like people desperate for oxlade chamberlain he start every match - he's too young. he looked out of his depth against sunderland, for example - he wasn't, but he will have games like that being raw, inexperienced and less physically developed.

 

Indeed but imo, Wilshere has actually "made the grade". Overall, he was great last season (first proper one too) and can only get better. He is such an important player for them, so much so that it's got to the point where his age doesn't really matter anymore. Oxlade-Chamberlain however is a different story, he has bags of talent but it is his first season in the PL and he is only 18,

 

Yeah i totally agree however teenage players are likely to break down now and then or have dips as they get used to the rigours of professional football which is where relying on them becomes a bit risky.

 

Indeed. Also just had a thought too - Wilshere will also need to get to grips with the PL again after being out for such a long time. Hmmm.

[jdckelly]

problem for Arsenal is who else can they get that actually better than Wenger?

[BottledDog]

problem for Arsenal is who else can they get that actually better than Wenger?

 

Didier Claude Deschamps.

[NEEJ]

problem for Arsenal is who else can they get that actually better than Wenger?

 

Didier Claude Deschamps.

[colinmk]

He's been needing to clear out the shite for a couple of seasons now and he hasn't done it. The likes of Rosicky, Chamakh, Dojorou, Squilaci, Arshavin etc are not good enough. Walcott is a very limited player and stifles Wenger's style of play too. Arteta should be good for them but hasn't been for whatever reason. Quite a big rebuilding job, the kind of thing Fergie just gets on with and doesn't fuck about. Wenger needs to do the same this summer imo.

[Flip]

problem for Arsenal is who else can they get that actually better than Wenger?

 

Didier Claude Deschamps.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think he is a bit too soft on making the changes TBH. The idea that Djorou is still in and around the Arsenal first team after repeatedly showing how terrible he is is a little bit scary.

[Dave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17112806

Samir Nasri admits that he has at times found it hard to live up to his price tag since moving to Manchester City.

 

But, six months on, the Frenchman is adamant he made the right move, with City still top of the league.

 

And he believes his old club Arsenal are currently faltering because they do not know how to "win ugly".

 

"Sometimes it's good to win ugly," Nasri said. "Arsenal are proof of that. They play good football but, after seven years, they don't win."

 

Arsene Wenger's side have lost five of their last 10 matches, leaving them 17 points behind Premier League leaders City.

 

They trail AC Milan 4-0 after the first leg of their last-16 Champions League tie - having not won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005.

 

Nasri in numbers

    £15.8m - The fee Arsenal paid to Marseille

    £24m - The fee Manchester City paid for his services

    18 - The number of Premier League goals he scored for Arsenal

    4 - How many goals he has so far for City

    31 - His number of appearances in all competitions this season

 

Wenger has come in for criticism in the past week with former Arsenal and France World Cup-winning midfielder Emmanuel Petit saying this was "the worst moment of Arsene's career with Arsenal".

 

Former Gunners manager George Graham has also said the club is failing because Wenger has not bought "quality" players.

 

But Nasri is hopeful that they will get it right in north London.

 

"I don't want Arsenal to fall down," he said. "I have respect for the players and the manager.

 

"They have a good philosophy. I know they will find some solution."

 

Since moving to Manchester in the summer, for £24m, Nasri has started 25 matches for City and believes he is now starting to show the form that earned his big-money move.

 

"It's always tough when you change," he said. "When you go to another team and have to be involved 100% and I wasn't.

 

"Now I start to be settled and you will see a better Samir every week.

 

"I never asked City to pay £24m so it's not me.

 

"What you want to do is to give something to the team and the people who bring you here and trust you."

[Shayno]

Tottenham, Liverpool AC Milan then us...we could be his last game at the helm

[MW]

be stunned if he left before the end of the season

[Village Idiot]

Regarding Cesc, had Arsenal been more successful I reckon he'd not been as desperate to come here. When he left Arsenal were miles ahead of us.

 

Anyhow, the tragedy of Wenger is that when the Invincibles were dismantled (and I think that generally he made the good call in letting the likes of Henry/Pires etc... go at the time he did), he banked everything on a group of players that five years down the road have left the club (Nasri, Clichy, Adebayor, Fàbregas...), so now he's back to square one with the added pressure of years of not winning anything.

 

Now, I am going to make a little exercise.

 

                          Schestnut

 

        Sagna Touré  Vermaelen Clichy

 

                          Song

          Wilshere              Nasri

                          Fàbregas                   

 

                    Adebayor  RVP

 

 

Would have this been a trophy-winning side? That's the sort of team that Arsenal would be lining up if Wenger had been able to hold on the players that back in 2006 he devised as the substitutes to the Invincibles (give or take the Eboues, Bendters, Djourous and Diabys)

[Disco]

Nasri is a little cunt, a right snide cunt. He's got some nerve pretending to give a damn about arsenal now.

---

It'f be a close run thing I reckon vi but they'd surely have at least won a cup or so.