Dokko Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Where's the arrogance? From the fans or from the club? This is 28 million pounds we're talking about here. Just accept the arrogant tag and move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Where's the arrogance? From the fans or from the club? This is 28 million pounds we're talking about here. Just accept the arrogant tag and move on. I can accept the tag, just not over this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Where's the arrogance? From the fans or from the club? This is 28 million pounds we're talking about here. Oooh, lots of money, must be a good deal. Give over, man. The arrogance is from the club, mainly. I'm not saying it's Moyes directly as it's hard to say how much of a say he actually had in the details of the offer. The fans too exemplify this cringeworthy 'holier than thou' attitude. I'm sure there is a large section of support who think we should immediately accept the advances of the almighty Man Utd - and yes, that stereotype does exist, even if there are 'decent' Man Utd fans out there. It's startling levels of arrogance in one of 2 ways, if not both. Either warped delusion that you seriously thought we'd accept this, or a snide move to unsettle them and subsequently trying to knock the price down by turning the players' heads. If anything, you've just made us more entrenched in our mentality and you'll end up having to pay more. Come back when you can be bothered to treat us with an ounce of respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Stoke transfer news: Club given OK for Eldinc 19th August 2013 Stoke City have been told they can buy Turkey striker Mevlut Elding for £4 million Since when has JFK been writing articles for Sports Direct News? So that's Pieters & Erding from our summer 2011 list. Maiga next? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Stoke transfer news: Club given OK for Eldinc 19th August 2013 Stoke City have been told they can buy Turkey striker Mevlut Elding for £4 million Since when has JFK been writing articles for Sports Direct News? So that's Pieters & Erding from our summer 2011 list. Maiga next? Obertan's probably available... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The players are worth more to Everton obviously, but in terms of market value what do you actually think those two are worth? How many years does Baines have before he starts to decline? He turns 29 in a few months, it's unlikely to much longer than two years. I agree that he is worth more than the mooted 12 million that we have bid, but not by a lot more. As a long term replacement of Evra, is he really a viable option at the price you'll be looking? I don't think so. I mentioned before about his set piece ability, and I believe that a few million is knocked onto his price for that asset, but Van Persie is better from dead ball situations and there is no disputing that. That part of his game doesn't matter to us in the slightest. Personally, I don't think Fellaini is anything special. A good player, as long as you play to his strengths. He's doing a good job at Everton but would he really be as effective at us?I mean no arrogance in saying this, but we are the Champions of England and should not be lumping balls to a target man when we have the technically gifted players on our books to play the football that should be expected of league winners. He would be hopeless as a central midfielder, so if he did come he's going to play behind Van Persie which means no spot for Rooney (should stay this season) or Kagawa who are both better players. I see his market value as the price you paid for him. It seems Everton fans seem to think 40m would need to be bid for the offer to even be considered. How on earth is that split up between the players? Are we talking 20m for a 29 year old left back here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The players are worth more to Everton obviously, but in terms of market value what do you actually think those two are worth? How many years does Baines have before he starts to decline? He turns 29 in a few months, it's unlikely to much longer than two years. I agree that he is worth more than the mooted 12 million that we have bid, but not by a lot more. As a long term replacement of Evra, is he really a viable option at the price you'll be looking? I don't think so. I mentioned before about his set piece ability, and I believe that a few million is knocked onto his price for that asset, but Van Persie is better from dead ball situations and there is no disputing that. That part of his game doesn't matter to us in the slightest. Personally, I don't think Fellaini is anything special. A good player, as long as you play to his strengths. He's doing a good job at Everton but would he really be as effective at us?I mean no arrogance in saying this, but we are the Champions of England and should not be lumping balls to a target man when we have the technically gifted players on our books to play the football that should be expected of league winners. He would be hopeless as a central midfielder, so if he did come he's going to play behind Van Persie which means no spot for Rooney (should stay this season) or Kagawa who are both better players. I see his market value as the price you paid for him. It seems Everton fans seem to think 40m would need to be bid for the offer to even be considered. How on earth is that split up between the players? Are we talking 20m for a 29 year old left back here? £20m would be on the low end of his value to Everton though, he's been their best player for a while and the best left back in the league for a few years. Fellaini's a different case as I get the feeling Martinez wouldn't be upset to get a truck load of cash for him and just buy James McCarthy to replace him but not sure if anyone will bother going near £20m as no one even troubled them when the clause was in effect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The players are worth more to Everton obviously, but in terms of market value what do you actually think those two are worth? See, I know what you mean by saying they are worth more to Everton, but that's the whole point - the second bit doesn't really come into it. Everton don't need to even consider what would be the realistic value of those players on the open market, because that's not what they are dealing with - the only thing that matters to them is how much Fellaini and Baines are worth to them. Everton have no obligation to provide "value" in the transfer market. You also have to remember, you are talking about Everton's two most important players, two weeks before the transfer window closed. If there was a real desire from Man United to get these two players in, maybe they should have made their move weeks ago? Everton are now going to do what we did with Benteke, what Liverpool are doing with Suarez, and what Spurs appear to be doing with Bale - making it clear how important those players are to them, and really, who can blame them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Man Utd in arrogance shocker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The players are worth more to Everton obviously, but in terms of market value what do you actually think those two are worth? See, I know what you mean by saying they are worth more to Everton, but that's the whole point - the second bit doesn't really come into it. Everton don't need to even consider what would be the realistic value of those players on the open market, because that's not what they are dealing with - the only thing that matters to them is how much Fellaini and Baines are worth to them. Everton have no obligation to provide "value" in the transfer market. I fully understand that, but I believe we have bid market value for these players expecting a counter offer closer to Evertons worth of these players. I don't see how a £28m bid is arrogant or derisory, even if it wasn't the receiving teams estimation of their players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Man Utd in arrogance shocker. Do you believe Arsenals £10m for Cabaye and £6m for Williams were arrogant? Or will you choose to ignore those bids and forget they were ever made because it isn't as cliche to shit on Arsenal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Baines and Felliani must be worth £20m each, at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The players are worth more to Everton obviously, but in terms of market value what do you actually think those two are worth? See, I know what you mean by saying they are worth more to Everton, but that's the whole point - the second bit doesn't really come into it. Everton don't need to even consider what would be the realistic value of those players on the open market, because that's not what they are dealing with - the only thing that matters to them is how much Fellaini and Baines are worth to them. Everton have no obligation to provide "value" in the transfer market. I fully understand that, but I believe we have bid market value for these players expecting a counter offer closer to Evertons worth of these players. I don't see how a £28m bid is arrogant or derisory, even if it wasn't the receiving teams estimation of their players. when you apparently offer the same price for Baines you did a month ago which they laughed at I'd call it arrogant and derisory (its apparently 16m for fellaini 12m for baines) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Could have been £15m for Fellaini and £13m for Baines. An opening offer for the big man and a million pound increase on Baines. Regardless of either, £28m for those two players is far from derisory, but I'm clearly in the minority here so I'll drop it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think anything between £30-£35 million should be acceptable for both parties. Everton could do so much with that money but the deal would need to happen this week because they're running out of time, and I think they'd want about 4 or 5 new signings with that cash if they sold those two. I think Man United are mad going for either though. Evra is still a good player, plus they also have Fabio and Buttner who are younger with potential. I think they could go another season at least with those 3, testing the wasters with the two younger full backs (Baines will be in his 30s at this stage). If they aren't up to the standard they need they could go out and find another player on the continent for better value. Fellaini doesn't fit in Man United at all for me, for the reasons Froggy has stated already. I've said that to my Man United supporting friends since last season and I stand by it. Also I'm guessing the bulk of the bid is made up with Fellaini's evaluation which makes me think they could get better value abroad again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Man Utd in arrogance shocker. Do you believe Arsenals £10m for Cabaye and £6m for Williams were arrogant? Or will you choose to ignore those bids and forget they were ever made because it isn't as cliche to shit on Arsenal? Did I mention Arsenal? Clown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Could have been £15m for Fellaini and £13m for Baines. An opening offer for the big man and a million pound increase on Baines. Regardless of either, £28m for those two players is far from derisory, but I'm clearly in the minority here so I'll drop it. I think it's derisory in today's market tbf although I absolutely agree with your sentiment. Baines is worth £20m in todays market, but 5 years ago and he would be worth half of that maximum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Could have been £15m for Fellaini and £13m for Baines. An opening offer for the big man and a million pound increase on Baines. Regardless of either, £28m for those two players is far from derisory, but I'm clearly in the minority here so I'll drop it. I think it's derisory in today's market tbf although I absolutely agree with your sentiment. Baines is worth £20m in todays market, but 5 years ago and he would be worth half of that maximum. I wouldn't say it's derisory, it's just too low and shouldn't be accepted. People just throw out those sorts of words to make their club look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Virtually every bid we make is derisory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Man Utd in arrogance shocker. Do you believe Arsenals £10m for Cabaye and £6m for Williams were arrogant? Or will you choose to ignore those bids and forget they were ever made because it isn't as cliche to shit on Arsenal? Did I mention Arsenal? Clown. That's my point. You say we're arrogant for making a £28m bid but most clubs, i.e. Arsenal, start low when they begin negotiations (not that I think we've bid low.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 All that matters is what we think, and we think that bid is derisory. Man Utd's personal opinion on what they're worth is meaningless. It is, though, clearly politics at work. Even if it was a million pound increase on Baines, why on earth do you think we'd accept that, after telling you where to go with your initial bid a few weeks ago? It's a flagrant lack of respect and as I mentioned, you've probably just strengthened our resolve. Btw, as I've said many, many times on here, I'm all too aware of Fellaini's limitations. The bottom line is though we don't want to sell either player. Feel free to get someone else - it'd suit all parties currently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Baines must have aged a year overnight btw. He's 28. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The players are worth more to Everton obviously, but in terms of market value what do you actually think those two are worth? See, I know what you mean by saying they are worth more to Everton, but that's the whole point - the second bit doesn't really come into it. Everton don't need to even consider what would be the realistic value of those players on the open market, because that's not what they are dealing with - the only thing that matters to them is how much Fellaini and Baines are worth to them. Everton have no obligation to provide "value" in the transfer market. I fully understand that, but I believe we have bid market value for these players expecting a counter offer closer to Evertons worth of these players. I don't see how a £28m bid is arrogant or derisory, even if it wasn't the receiving teams estimation of their players. It might not be derisory for you and I, but that's not the point, Everton are saying that they find the bid derisory - ie in terms of what they think the players are worth, and I'd imagine it also has something to do with Moyes having good reason to know how much they'd be likely to let them go for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Baines must have aged a year overnight btw. He's 28. I said he was 28 and was 29 in a few months. If I've said 29 anywhere else it's a typo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 All clubs start with low bids usually, this one was not that bad in comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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