Guest Roger Kint Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think at this stage, we'd be daft to 'drop' Jonas as it were. I think that in games against the lesser sides, particularly at home, we'd be better off utilising Marveaux and Obertan as they'd be more likely to run rings round some of the shittier full-backs in the league. However, Jonas is a really important component away from home, and much like Park for Man U he's incredibly useful in the games against the bigger teams - for his ball retention and ability to relieve pressure from the defence. 100% this. All the talk of doing this and that is pointless. We should be looking at attacking teams like Blackburn at home and that means taking chances with the lineup. It was said by a few people a while back that Jonas is pretty much wrong for the weaker teams at home as we often lack a cutting edge to open them up. Play him to his strengths and start him away/home to top 6 teams or when we are trying to close out a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The thing is virtually everyone wants to see him given a start on the left wing instead of Jonas so making excuses etc is only putting off the inevitable. I would get my best team starting on Saturday and try and build up some game time / understanding against the "lesser" teams than put it off and start introducing them against the Manchesters and Chelsea. Really? Who? Its so f***ing stupid that people want Jonas out of the team. Please watch a match and see what Jonas does overall. Do not just watch his bad crossing He is in my eyes one of our most important players, his contribution to our team is immense. Play him on the right, Marv on the left, HBA in the middle. (After Santon are alive and kicking. Raylor need Jonas to cover his ass) One word: SEXY jonas is every important. he offers much both ways! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Nah man, Obertan on the whole has been pretty crap. Stick Jonas on the right with Marveaux on the left, they can switch if needs be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think at this stage, we'd be daft to 'drop' Jonas as it were. I think that in games against the lesser sides, particularly at home, we'd be better off utilising Marveaux and Obertan as they'd be more likely to run rings round some of the shittier full-backs in the league. However, Jonas is a really important component away from home, and much like Park for Man U he's incredibly useful in the games against the bigger teams - for his ball retention and ability to relieve pressure from the defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Number 9 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 It's nice to have such a selection dilemma. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Wonder if the wallpushers are still glad they dodged a bullet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Number 9 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Lets not get carried away. We need to see him do well in a few premier league games before we go proclaiming signing him a massive success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 With you on the Park comparison pilko. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I've just seen the goals from last night, quality cross for the first goal and first touch before winning the penalty. As others have mentioned I'd like to see him starting sooner rather than later, preferably on the left if he's going to be whipping in crosses like that on a regular basis, Jonas could be just as effective on the right as he is on the left IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. Agreed. Although I'm still under the impression that Obertan just needs a run of games to build up his confidence so that he can eventually hit top form but on current form, has to be Marveaux and Jonas on the wings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. Agreed. Although I'm still under the impression that Obertan just needs a run of games to build up his confidence so that he can eventually hit top form but on current form, has to be Marveaux and Jonas on the wings. The cross with the outside of his foot for Coloccinis goal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeloEmre Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. Agreed. Although I'm still under the impression that Obertan just needs a run of games to build up his confidence so that he can eventually hit top form but on current form, has to be Marveaux and Jonas on the wings. The cross with the outside of his foot for Coloccinis goal... Any what about that cross? Should we start Lovenkrands on Saturday too just because he scored two goals yesterday? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The thing is virtually everyone wants to see him given a start on the left wing instead of Jonas so making excuses etc is only putting off the inevitable. I would get my best team starting on Saturday and try and build up some game time / understanding against the "lesser" teams than put it off and start introducing them against the Manchesters and Chelsea. Really? Who? Well virtually everyone who has posted regarding the situation in the last 24 hours. Even Jonas fans seem to be accepting the left wing is no longer his and hoping he gets a shot on the right wing instead of Obertan. Unless Santon is fit, Jonas is an automatic starter on the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. Agreed. Although I'm still under the impression that Obertan just needs a run of games to build up his confidence so that he can eventually hit top form but on current form, has to be Marveaux and Jonas on the wings. The cross with the outside of his foot for Coloccinis goal... Any what about that cross? Should we start Lovenkrands on Saturday too just because he scored two goals yesterday? Not when the current goalscorer (Best) is in form and scoring goals. If you view Wingers as creative then Obertans two assists last night should come into consideration when deciding whether to replace a winger who is out of form, creatively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Jonas definately should be used against stronger teams with good wingers, he'll hold up the wings and get possession, against a team where we really want to be testing their full backs and anticipate being domiinate, there's a good argument for stronger players. Looking at his stats for Aston Villa game his passing was good but he never successfully passed into box, and only once even tried, his shots weren't good either, but his passing was, and he tackled successfully more than Tiote or Colo (not by much) and further up the pitch. I wonder if he could actually be moved into the middle should we lose one of our main midfielders to injury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Jonas definately should be used against stronger teams with good wingers, he'll hold up the wings and get possession, against a team where we really want to be testing their full backs and anticipate being domiinate, there's a good argument for stronger players. Looking at his stats for Aston Villa game his passing was good but he never successfully passed into box, and only once even tried, his shots weren't good either, but his passing was, and he tackled successfully more than Tiote or Colo (not by much) and further up the pitch. I wonder if he could actually be moved into the middle should we lose one of our main midfielders to injury. We have enough cover i.e. Gosling, Abeid, Guthrie. Would not like to see him in Tiote/Cabaye's position... at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yeah probably actually hardly lacking in the centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. I would like to See Jonas and Obertan fight for the right position, However it must be done with a more balance approach. It really must depend on who is the fullback that is protecting the wings. For example if Ryan stuck in the left back position , Jonas should automatically start , due to his ability to track back and protect ever so often. But if we put Jonas on the right with Simmo at the back , we might loose a bit of fire power.... Simmo is a right back that rarely over laps and and attack. Maybe once or twice a game, therefore i believe Obertan is a better combination as he is a more direct attacking player. I have my doubts on jonas crossing and counter attacking abilities as he never gets his head up before he crosses or pick a pass, therefore his track record is obvious to everyone as long his habit doesnt change. Having his head down is probably also the reason why he often could dribble well and release pressure on team. Tbh i watched Marvx since he broke into the scene, he is a very intelligent player while attacking but provides very little protection as he wanders into dangerous advance positions. Santon is not a player i followed alot but from his videos , he looked a very attacking fullback that usually runs up the pitch nearly in every game. Therefore the contradiction...... with the pair of Marvx and Santon....unless they forgo a part of their natural game and be more discipline. Jonas and Santon is probably a more well balance team, as Santon is more attacking than Jose. They could cover one another and attack comfortably as well. That all being said, i believe they all could fit in the team....my preference would be: Striker Ben Afra Marxv Tiote Cabaye Obertan Santon Collo Taylor/Will Jonas Jonas is probably our most adaptable player in terms of his abilities ( Argentina) , i am very confident with his defensive abilities. The pair of Marvx and Santon will need help from the midfield and Collo to cover them when they go on the rampage... To summarize: Jonas = Attacking 6 defense 8 Marvx = Attacking 8.5 defense 5 Obertan = Attacking 6.5(?) Defensive (6) Santon = Attacking 8 Defensive 6(?) (Epl is different so lets see how he adapts ) Simmo = Attacking 5 Defensive 6.5 Obviously Simmo is the weak link in my opinion, if jonas could tweet his game.....and play full back positions( which i rate him half as one...) We could be sitting on a team of very talented ball possession players. It also allows us with very flexible substitutions. Hope Pardew Catches on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. I would like to See Jonas and Obertan fight for the right position, However it must be done with a more balance approach. It really must depend on who is the fullback that is protecting the wings. For example if Ryan stuck in the left back position , Jonas should automatically start , due to his ability to track back and protect ever so often. But if we put Jonas on the right with Simmo at the back , we might loose a bit of fire power.... Simmo is a right back that rarely over laps and and attack. Maybe once or twice a game, therefore i believe Obertan is a better combination as he is a more direct attacking player. I have my doubts on jonas crossing and counter attacking abilities as he never gets his head up before he crosses or pick a pass, therefore his track record is obvious to everyone as long his habit doesnt change. Having his head down is probably also the reason why he often could dribble well and release pressure on team. Tbh i watched Marvx since he broke into the scene, he is a very intelligent player while attacking but provides very little protection as he wanders into dangerous advance positions. Santon is not a player i followed alot but from his videos , he looked a very attacking fullback that usually runs up the pitch nearly in every game. Therefore the contradiction...... with the pair of Marvx and Santon....unless they forgo a part of their natural game and be more discipline. Jonas and Santon is probably a more well balance team, as Santon is more attacking than Jose. They could cover one another and attack comfortably as well. That all being said, i believe they all could fit in the team....my preference would be: Striker Ben Afra Marxv Tiote Cabaye Obertan Santon Collo Taylor/Will Jonas Jonas is probably our most adaptable player in terms of his abilities ( Argentina) , i am very confident with his defensive abilities. The pair of Marvx and Santon will need help from the midfield and Collo to cover them when they go on the rampage... To summarize: Jonas = Attacking 6 defense 8 Marvx = Attacking 8.5 defense 5 Obertan = Attacking 6.5(?) Defensive (6) Santon = Attacking 8 Defensive 6(?) (Epl is different so lets see how he adapts ) Simmo = Attacking 5 Defensive 6.5 Obviously Simmo is the weak link in my opinion, if jonas could tweet his game.....and play full back positions( which i rate him half as one...) We could be sitting on a team of very talented ball possession players. It also allows us with very flexible substitutions. Hope Pardew Catches on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. I would like to See Jonas and Obertan fight for the right position, However it must be done with a more balance approach. It really must depend on who is the fullback that is protecting the wings. For example if Ryan stuck in the left back position , Jonas should automatically start , due to his ability to track back and protect ever so often. But if we put Jonas on the right with Simmo at the back , we might loose a bit of fire power.... Simmo is a right back that rarely over laps and and attack. Maybe once or twice a game, therefore i believe Obertan is a better combination as he is a more direct attacking player. I have my doubts on jonas crossing and counter attacking abilities as he never gets his head up before he crosses or pick a pass, therefore his track record is obvious to everyone as long his habit doesnt change. Having his head down is probably also the reason why he often could dribble well and release pressure on team. Tbh i watched Marvx since he broke into the scene, he is a very intelligent player while attacking but provides very little protection as he wanders into dangerous advance positions. Santon is not a player i followed alot but from his videos , he looked a very attacking fullback that usually runs up the pitch nearly in every game. Therefore the contradiction...... with the pair of Marvx and Santon....unless they forgo a part of their natural game and be more discipline. Jonas and Santon is probably a more well balance team, as Santon is more attacking than Jose. They could cover one another and attack comfortably as well. That all being said, i believe they all could fit in the team....my preference would be: Striker Ben Afra Marxv Tiote Cabaye Obertan Santon Collo Taylor/Will Jonas Jonas is probably our most adaptable player in terms of his abilities ( Argentina) , i am very confident with his defensive abilities. The pair of Marvx and Santon will need help from the midfield and Collo to cover them when they go on the rampage... To summarize: Jonas = Attacking 6 defense 8 Marvx = Attacking 8.5 defense 5 Obertan = Attacking 6.5(?) Defensive (6) Santon = Attacking 8 Defensive 6(?) (Epl is different so lets see how he adapts ) Simmo = Attacking 5 Defensive 6.5 Obviously Simmo is the weak link in my opinion, if jonas could tweet his game.....and play full back positions( which i rate him half as one...) We could be sitting on a team of very talented ball possession players. It also allows us with very flexible substitutions. Hope Pardew Catches on. http://i.imgur.com/6YwWm.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest axel Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. I would like to See Jonas and Obertan fight for the right position, However it must be done with a more balance approach. It really must depend on who is the fullback that is protecting the wings. For example if Ryan stuck in the left back position , Jonas should automatically start , due to his ability to track back and protect ever so often. But if we put Jonas on the right with Simmo at the back , we might loose a bit of fire power.... Simmo is a right back that rarely over laps and and attack. Maybe once or twice a game, therefore i believe Obertan is a better combination as he is a more direct attacking player. I have my doubts on jonas crossing and counter attacking abilities as he never gets his head up before he crosses or pick a pass, therefore his track record is obvious to everyone as long his habit doesnt change. Having his head down is probably also the reason why he often could dribble well and release pressure on team. Tbh i watched Marvx since he broke into the scene, he is a very intelligent player while attacking but provides very little protection as he wanders into dangerous advance positions. Santon is not a player i followed alot but from his videos , he looked a very attacking fullback that usually runs up the pitch nearly in every game. Therefore the contradiction...... with the pair of Marvx and Santon....unless they forgo a part of their natural game and be more discipline. Jonas and Santon is probably a more well balance team, as Santon is more attacking than Jose. They could cover one another and attack comfortably as well. That all being said, i believe they all could fit in the team....my preference would be: Striker Ben Afra Marxv Tiote Cabaye Obertan Santon Collo Taylor/Will Jonas Jonas is probably our most adaptable player in terms of his abilities ( Argentina) , i am very confident with his defensive abilities. The pair of Marvx and Santon will need help from the midfield and Collo to cover them when they go on the rampage... To summarize: Jonas = Attacking 6 defense 8 Marvx = Attacking 8.5 defense 5 Obertan = Attacking 6.5(?) Defensive (6) Santon = Attacking 8 Defensive 6(?) (Epl is different so lets see how he adapts ) Simmo = Attacking 5 Defensive 6.5 Obviously Simmo is the weak link in my opinion, if jonas could tweet his game.....and play full back positions( which i rate him half as one...) We could be sitting on a team of very talented ball possession players. It also allows us with very flexible substitutions. Hope Pardew Catches on. http://i.imgur.com/6YwWm.jpg What's the problem? Jonas has a 8 in defence rating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Diego? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Marveaux looks class and should definitely be starting sooner rather than later, but it should be instead of Obertan not Jonas. That's not a slight on Obertan but he doesn't offer much more end product than Jonas at this stage and he offers much less in other areas of the pitch. Let him learn his trade and he can challenge Jonas for the shirt, but he has to earn it first. I would like to See Jonas and Obertan fight for the right position, However it must be done with a more balance approach. It really must depend on who is the fullback that is protecting the wings. For example if Ryan stuck in the left back position , Jonas should automatically start , due to his ability to track back and protect ever so often. But if we put Jonas on the right with Simmo at the back , we might loose a bit of fire power.... Simmo is a right back that rarely over laps and and attack. Maybe once or twice a game, therefore i believe Obertan is a better combination as he is a more direct attacking player. I have my doubts on jonas crossing and counter attacking abilities as he never gets his head up before he crosses or pick a pass, therefore his track record is obvious to everyone as long his habit doesnt change. Having his head down is probably also the reason why he often could dribble well and release pressure on team. Tbh i watched Marvx since he broke into the scene, he is a very intelligent player while attacking but provides very little protection as he wanders into dangerous advance positions. Santon is not a player i followed alot but from his videos , he looked a very attacking fullback that usually runs up the pitch nearly in every game. Therefore the contradiction...... with the pair of Marvx and Santon....unless they forgo a part of their natural game and be more discipline. Jonas and Santon is probably a more well balance team, as Santon is more attacking than Jose. They could cover one another and attack comfortably as well. That all being said, i believe they all could fit in the team....my preference would be: Striker Ben Afra Marxv Tiote Cabaye Obertan Santon Collo Taylor/Will Jonas Jonas is probably our most adaptable player in terms of his abilities ( Argentina) , i am very confident with his defensive abilities. The pair of Marvx and Santon will need help from the midfield and Collo to cover them when they go on the rampage... To summarize: Jonas = Attacking 6 defense 8 Marvx = Attacking 8.5 defense 5 Obertan = Attacking 6.5(?) Defensive (6) Santon = Attacking 8 Defensive 6(?) (Epl is different so lets see how he adapts ) Simmo = Attacking 5 Defensive 6.5 Obviously Simmo is the weak link in my opinion, if jonas could tweet his game.....and play full back positions( which i rate him half as one...) We could be sitting on a team of very talented ball possession players. It also allows us with very flexible substitutions. Hope Pardew Catches on. http://i.imgur.com/6YwWm.jpg What's the problem? Jonas has a 8 in defence rating Wait Actually http://www.memeface.com/pic/meme601637433_m.jpg It's not ok! http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/square/000/005/627/untitled.JPG?1303251517 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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