Guest bimpy474 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I do have a nagging worry about a manager who thinks Raylor, Obertan, Ferguson and Lovenkrands should be in the team ahead of Ben Arfa down the right or left. Exactly. It's all well and good saying the criticisms of HBA are fair and that he needs to get used to the game or he's not pulling his weight in the team, but what about Obertan? Perch? Danny fucking Simpson? It seems Pardew only wants to aim criticism at HBA when he has to know that Obertan and Simpson are offering even less than HBA supposedly does. Surely he's not that clueless. It's a complete joke and slap in the face that he'd choose to bring on a youngster and Lovenkraps ahead of him. Totally agree, if he cant find a place for HBA especially with some of players who are playing, then i'm very worried about how he actually does see HBA as a player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 why bring lovenkrands on n not ben arfa Because it makes no difference whatsoever and who would you rather have out there risking injury? I would rather a player who by Pardew's own omission needs to get used to the English game given a bit of pitch time. I'd also prefer to keep said player happy and not completely take the piss out of him by bringing Lovenkrands and Ferguson ahead of him. Yeah, let's keep him happy, that's the most important thing. The obsession with Ben Arfa some people have on here is amazing, he really can do no wrong in their eyes. The reality is that the criticisms of him are fair and in a game we were always going to find tough defensively I can totally understand why Pardew opted to leave him on the bench, it didn't work out, but it was a totally reasonable choice to make. The game was lost from 5 mins in, you could tell that the whole team just wasn't up for it today and putting Ben Arfa on wouldn't have changed anything, he could however have got injured. If we'd have had our first team today then we would definitely have had a legitimate chance of getting something out of this game, but we didn't, and when we don't have our best players on the pitch we're always going to have to rely a bit on luck against the better teams in the league. In that situation we don't have the squad to have a balanced and quality team and Pardew has to make a decision which way to go; defensive or attacking? He chose defensive, defensive didn't work, but in all likelihood if he'd have chosen to go for attacking and start Ben Arfa, it would have ended up going the same way. Once the game had started so badly nothing Pardew could do from the bench was going to change things and in that situation I can understand why he chose not to risk our better players. Yeah, we got a total kicking today, but nothing Pardew did or didn't do was actually that wrong, let alone outrageous, so to get so enraged at him is a bit mental. The players simply weren't at the races from the start, but sometimes that just happens, if we were playing like that all the time then you could pin the blame on the manager, but we aren't, we're doing really well, way better than anyone expected and the manager deserves a huge amount of credit for that. It's fucking pathetic how some people react when we lose at the moment, you'd think we were in the bottom three, not sixth in the league! Christ So err... Yeah, I would prefer our best players to be happy at the club and I do believe it to be quite improtant that they are. I thought (like many other times this season) it was a missed opportunity to get him some game time which I think would ultimately be better for the club. A daft theory I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 why bring lovenkrands on n not ben arfa Because it makes no difference whatsoever and who would you rather have out there risking injury? I would rather a player who by Pardew's own omission needs to get used to the English game given a bit of pitch time. I'd also prefer to keep said player happy and not completely take the piss out of him by bringing Lovenkrands and Ferguson ahead of him. Yeah, let's keep him happy, that's the most important thing. The obsession with Ben Arfa some people have on here is amazing, he really can do no wrong in their eyes. The reality is that the criticisms of him are fair and in a game we were always going to find tough defensively I can totally understand why Pardew opted to leave him on the bench, it didn't work out, but it was a totally reasonable choice to make. The game was lost from 5 mins in, you could tell that the whole team just wasn't up for it today and putting Ben Arfa on wouldn't have changed anything, he could however have got injured. If we'd have had our first team today then we would definitely have had a legitimate chance of getting something out of this game, but we didn't, and when we don't have our best players on the pitch we're always going to have to rely a bit on luck against the better teams in the league. In that situation we don't have the squad to have a balanced and quality team and Pardew has to make a decision which way to go; defensive or attacking? He chose defensive, defensive didn't work, but in all likelihood if he'd have chosen to go for attacking and start Ben Arfa, it would have ended up going the same way. Once the game had started so badly nothing Pardew could do from the bench was going to change things and in that situation I can understand why he chose not to risk our better players. Yeah, we got a total kicking today, but nothing Pardew did or didn't do was actually that wrong, let alone outrageous, so to get so enraged at him is a bit mental. The players simply weren't at the races from the start, but sometimes that just happens, if we were playing like that all the time then you could pin the blame on the manager, but we aren't, we're doing really well, way better than anyone expected and the manager deserves a huge amount of credit for that. It's fucking pathetic how some people react when we lose at the moment, you'd think we were in the bottom three, not sixth in the league! What do you think about Pardew admitting he played too many attacking players and that he feels responsible for the way we started then? I think he's got more of a point than the people on here saying we should have played Ben Arfa from the start. We didn't lose because we were too defensive today, our defending was awful, we lost because we played badly, didn't press, or keep, the ball, neither of which are exactly Ben Arfa's strengths, are they? I reckon if we'd not have capitulated totally in the first half, then he would have brought Ben Arfa on and gone for it at some point in the second half and see nothing wrong with that as a tactic away at the third best team in the country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Taking the blame, says he played too many attacking players. But we didn't attack though Well we did try, but nearly all our attacking play broke down 30 - 40 yards from their goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 "we can go to spurs and let our hair down." and didn't we do just that, what...the....fuck Obertan, Jonas, Guthrie and Perch don't provide enough quality for us to have a real go at places like spurs. We should have done 4-5-1 and tried to contain them. Yes. It wasn't the day with key players missing to play 2 up. Spurs are just lethal at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeloEmre Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 At least i had Assou Ekotto in my fantasy team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Not good enough, but in saying that Spurs were different class. Thought Guthrie tried to make things happen, but he was let down by a lack of support from others - notably Perch and the awful Obertan. If anything today shows that the back up that we have in key areas is just not good enough. And that needs addressing in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Ah well, I expected us to get beat today. Okay, not quite as forcefully as that and I'm not happy about the ease with which we were dispatched but on the plus side Chelsea and Liverpool both lost, as did the mackems and the clubs below that continue to take points off each other. We've got two of our best players to come back into the side, a chance to recharge our batteries over the next couple of weeks and get Tiote, Ba and particularly Cissé up to speed with their teammates before a home game we should win. Fuck it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I don't have any more of an obsession with Ben Arfa than I do with Demba Ba, or Cheick Tiote, or Yohan Cabaye, or Tim Krul, or Fabricio Coloccini. I just think they're clearly our best players and should be in the team as some of the first names on the sheet. How is that an obsession? All those players play well, week in, week out. Are you seriously saying that Ben Arfa does? I don't think he does. He's easily the most talented player we have, but his form is wildly erratic and playing him from the start in a game like this would have been a big risk. I can see why Pardew thought it wasn't a risk worth taking that is my point, I am simply criticising the people on here who seem to think that everything that happened today is down to Pardew's decision not to have Ben Arfa in the starting line up, it wasn't. The following isn't a response to you mate, just a general point: I'm not going to get into an argument about this because I've stated and explained my point now to an extent that I think anyone who is reading with an unbiased opinion and an open mind can understand what I am trying to say, they might not agree, but I hope that they would accept that it's a valid opinion. If I carry on I will find myself in an argument with people whose opinions are so biased that they simply can't see the other side of the argument and that's a total waste of my time, so I'm going to stop now, I've made my point, take it or leave it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Taking the blame, says he played too many attacking players. But we didn't attack though Well we did try, but nearly all our attacking play broke down 30 - 40 yards from their goal. With us playing the highest line in world footy, that would gives about a yard squared to play in, no wonder we played shit like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I didn't see the match. Were we really THAT bad? It sounds quite worrying tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 At least i had Assou Ekotto in my fantasy team Me too along with Parker and Friedel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I didn't see the match. Were we really THAT bad? It sounds quite worrying tbh. They walked through us at will from the first whistle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Had bet 4-1 on Spurs, saw this coming from a mile away. A few things: Guthrie was our best player in the final third by a country mile. Ba was awful, when you're under that much pressure you need your forward to hold up the ball and take a bit of pressure off, he was trying daft bits of skill and passing it back to the Spurs midfield. The defence were individually and as a unit shocking. Colo and simpson were particualrly bad. Having said that Spurs' passand move game was different class, they were pulling us all over the place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Ah well, I expected us to get beat today. Okay, not quite as forcefully as that and I'm not happy about the ease with which we were dispatched but on the plus side Chelsea and Liverpool both lost, as did the mackems and the clubs below that continue to take points off each other. We've got two of our best players to come back into the side, a chance to recharge our batteries over the next couple of weeks and get Tiote, Ba and particularly Cissé up to speed with their teammates before a home game we should win. Fuck it. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just an awful day/performance/result. Spurs started quickly and we couldn't get near them, they were fantastic. We were poor but i think Spurs would have beaten most teams in the country being in the mood they were. It didn't tell us anything we didn't already know though. Spurs are comfortably better than us. Guthrie and Perch isn't a good enough replacement CM for Tiote and Cabaye, pace killed us, we've got several players who aren't good enough to match our ambitions etc. Thankfully a few teams around us lost too so the damage is negligible and the table doesn't look to different to what it did this morning. Just got to hope that Pardew gets them organised in the break and we take points from the next 2 home games. Write today off and look forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I didn't see the match. Were we really THAT bad? It sounds quite worrying tbh. They walked through us at will from the first whistle. Let me guess high defensive line, lots of space in between our players and lots of backing off on Bale? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENKAAA Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Ah well, I expected us to get beat today. Okay, not quite as forcefully as that and I'm not happy about the ease with which we were dispatched but on the plus side Chelsea and Liverpool both lost, as did the mackems and the clubs below that continue to take points off each other. We've got two of our best players to come back into the side, a chance to recharge our batteries over the next couple of weeks and get Tiote, Ba and particularly Cissé up to speed with their teammates before a home game we should win. Fuck it. Yup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 First on MOTD. They've been waiting for this all season man, f***ing wankers. Bet the penalty shout gets missed out of the highlights too, but we should see the Collo tackle from 12 different angles, at 3 different speeds and end up having him banned for a few dozen matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I don't have any more of an obsession with Ben Arfa than I do with Demba Ba, or Cheick Tiote, or Yohan Cabaye, or Tim Krul, or Fabricio Coloccini. I just think they're clearly our best players and should be in the team as some of the first names on the sheet. How is that an obsession? All those players play well, week in, week out. Are you seriously saying that Ben Arfa does? I don't think he does. He's easily the most talented player we have, but his form is wildly erratic and playing him from the start in a game like this would have been a big risk. I can see why Pardew thought it wasn't a risk worth taking that is my point, I am simply criticising the people on here who seem to think that everything that happened today is down to Pardew's decision not to have Ben Arfa in the starting line up, it wasn't. The following isn't a response to you mate, just a general point: I'm not going to get into an argument about this because I've stated and explained my point now to an extent that I think anyone who is reading with an unbiased opinion and an open mind can understand what I am trying to say, they might not agree, but I hope that they would accept that it's a valid opinion. If I carry on I will find myself in an argument with people whose opinions are so biased that they simply can't see the other side of the argument and that's a total waste of my time, so I'm going to stop now, I've made my point, take it or leave it. He doesn't play week-in, week-out, so no, he can't really play well week-in, week-out. I don't think his form is wildly erratic at all though, can't see where you're coming from in the slightest. Erratic however would still be better than utter shit every single week, like Obertan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 With Ben Arfa, you clearly gain creative ability at the expense of defensive strength when you select him. I suspect the additional problem though as far as Pardew is concerned is his willingness to go by team instructions. He looks very undisciplined in his play. I think a telling moment for Pardew came when he subbed Ben Arfa for Perch at half-time against Blackburn, and all of a sudden we had a much better shape and started to look like a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 With Ben Arfa, you clearly gain creative ability at the expense of defensive strength when you select him. I suspect the additional problem though as far as Pardew is concerned is his willingness to go by team instructions. He looks very undisciplined in his play. I think a telling moment for Pardew came when he subbed Ben Arfa for Perch at half-time against Blackburn, and all of a sudden we had a much better shape and started to look like a team. We really saw the benefit of that additional defensive strength today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Against Blackburn we had no Tiote or Cabaye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 With Ben Arfa, you clearly gain creative ability at the expense of defensive strength when you select him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 With Ben Arfa, you clearly gain creative ability at the expense of defensive strength when you select him. You're either soft in the head or you didn't watch today's game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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