ATB Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I´m glad to see so many posters coming to sense in the last few pages. Unfortunately that won´t solve the situation Just face it everyone. This club IS NOT ambitious. We just hope for the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Be real. our "second team" isn´t that great. For example I can name Obertan and Gosling. For all I know. Everytime they plays there is always name calling. Obertan perhaps, Gosling certainly isnt first call when we have a 1st team injury. Dont confuse him getting chances with being 1st choice backup, which is what we're talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Selling Best was a bit stupid if we're struggling to attract squad players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Be real. our "second team" isn´t that great. For example I can name Obertan and Gosling. For all I know. Everytime they plays there is always name calling. Obertan perhaps, Gosling certainly isnt first call when we have a 1st team injury. Dont confuse him getting chances with being 1st choice backup, which is what we're talking about. Add Harper and Williamson being an injury away from first team starters. So that's Obertan, Harper, Shola, Williamson, anybody else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Wage bill certainly has been trimmed. Mainly thanks to Smith's departure but it's another score for the Balance Sheet Boys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Be real. our "second team" isn´t that great. For example I can name Obertan and Gosling. For all I know. Everytime they plays there is always name calling. Obertan perhaps, Gosling certainly isnt first call when we have a 1st team injury. Dont confuse him getting chances with being 1st choice backup, which is what we're talking about. Unfortunately I think he is the forth chose in the middle. And as I said. I don´t agree we have a strong second team. We have a few interesting players in a few positions, but not many. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Be real. our "second team" isn´t that great. For example I can name Obertan and Gosling. For all I know. Everytime they plays there is always name calling. Obertan perhaps, Gosling certainly isnt first call when we have a 1st team injury. Dont confuse him getting chances with being 1st choice backup, which is what we're talking about. Add Harper and Williamson being an injury away from first team starters. So that's Obertan, Harper, Shola, Williamson, anybody else? Ryan Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Wage bill certainly has been trimmed. Mainly thanks to Smith's departure but it's another score for the Balance Sheet Boys. Sounds like a f*cking pop band Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Again it really depends on the quality you're going for and what you're willing to invest for them in terms of being worth their money. We can improve those players, whether we'd be able to do it cost effectively is very debatable. Anita clearly had issues with joining & knowing he'd get gametime, so its hardly a madeup point being made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Wage bill certainly has been trimmed. Mainly thanks to Smith's departure but it's another score for the Balance Sheet Boys. Sounds like a f*cking pop band Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 To be fair, both myself and Neil have popped up saying your second team is now pretty good - the Atromitos side was decent. How good is a second team going to be, when your wagebill is a fraction of the big boys, and even comfortably less than us? The problems are clear and specific - centre-forward and centre-back cover and maybe an upgrade at RB. If you have 15-20M to spend (sound reasonable?) then you should be able to address all three, but certainly two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Selling Best was a bit stupid if we're struggling to attract squad players. Quite, particularly up front. Unless he thinks (a) Best is a crock (b) Campbell is ready to be backup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Selling Best was a bit stupid if we're struggling to attract squad players. Quite, particularly up front. Unless he thinks (a) Best is a crock (b) Campbell is ready to be backup. (a) is correct, (b) probably isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Seriously, how can anyone think Pardew's not pissed off when he's telling the press stuff like this: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/football/premier_league/9899642.Pardew_targets_Champions_League_for_Toon/ Never mind being happy with fucking eighth, he wants to go for fourth. Chelsea will undoubtedly improve so that means competing with and trying to finish ahead of Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton. Improving on the season just gone. Whilst also playing in another competion with long trips and a very tough schedule. With not one improvement to his first team that finished 5th. Aye right, it's just moaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Pardew is the one actually being kept up to date with the reasons as to why we can or cant go for players. He could easily be dissapointed with our lack of signings whilst satisfied with the reasons we havent gone for them, no reason to believe he's pissed off with our strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Pardew is the one actually being kept up to date with the reasons as to why we can or cant go for players. He could easily be dissapointed with our lack of signings whilst satisfied with the reasons we havent gone for them, no reason to believe he's p*ssed off with our strategy. No, ashley and decker are totally screwing him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 You said we broke even due to player trading, which is patently untrue, so it's a redundant point Nobody is saying one year of breaking even eradicates any losses, the losses that Mike Ashley has swallowed up have no bearing on anything, hence him sanctioning unsucesful bids of 8 figures more than once already this window When deals AREN'T done, like the quotes I've posted from previous windows, here's another from today "If you can't do your business in the summer, then I don't know why because there is plenty of time.". What are you trying to defend with your fallacies? What is the point you are trying to make? I am pretty certain that we wouldn't have made a profit without the Carroll sale. I don't have the accounts to hand but I don't seem to remember a 35 million plus profit in the year we sold Carroll. So one would assume that the Carroll money was pretty instrumental in the state of our finances. How do the losses Ashley shored up previously not have a bearing on what we are prepared to spend? Quite clearly Ashley wants to run the club along sensible financial lines, which means that we aren't prepared to pay over our own valuations on players (which is a sensible strategy to be honest). This strategy is a direct result of the losses we were making - it couldn't be any clearer. It has been stated numerous times that we now run the club in a prudent manner and I sincerely hope we continue to do so. No idea what you are getting at in the 3rd 'point'. Completely incoherent. The points I am making are perfectly clear. If you want some help, send me a PM and I'll walk you through it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 You said we broke even due to player trading, which is patently untrue, so it's a redundant point Nobody is saying one year of breaking even eradicates any losses, the losses that Mike Ashley has swallowed up have no bearing on anything, hence him sanctioning unsucesful bids of 8 figures more than once already this window When deals AREN'T done, like the quotes I've posted from previous windows, here's another from today "If you can't do your business in the summer, then I don't know why because there is plenty of time.". What are you trying to defend with your fallacies? What is the point you are trying to make? I am pretty certain that we wouldn't have made a profit without the Carroll sale. I don't have the accounts to hand but I don't seem to remember a 35 million plus profit in the year we sold Carroll. So one would assume that the Carroll money was pretty instrumental in the state of our finances. How do the losses Ashley shored up previously not have a bearing on what we are prepared to spend? Quite clearly Ashley wants to run the club along sensible financial lines, which means that we aren't prepared to pay over our own valuations on players (which is a sensible strategy to be honest). This strategy is a direct result of the losses we were making - it couldn't be any clearer. It has been stated numerous times that we now run the club in a prudent manner and I sincerely hope we continue to do so. No idea what you are getting at in the 3rd 'point'. Completely incoherent. The points I am making are perfectly clear. If you want some help, send me a PM and I'll walk you through it. Dont borther with uncal eric man...hes been beating the same drum since he joined. Either WUM or Fake account. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I've pretty much reached that conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Keep it civilised please folks, whichever side of the fence you're on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 There's no reason why we can't compete with Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton for 4th. Arsenal and Spurs have had access to CL money which has put both clubs much ahead of us as far as squad strength goes. Liverpool are doing what Villa tried to do under Lerner, spend wads hoping that it will pay off with a CL place. I remember him being cited as a perfect owner compared to Ashley in previous years. Where are they now? As for Everton they are not doing much different to us. Spending within their means and seeing where they end up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 The right back situation is a joke, surely Debuchy isn't the only RB out there. As soon as Simpson rejected his contract we should have been trying our best to get a RB in and to not have one by now is amateurish Simpson is so average and limits our player, being stingy will just cost us over the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Can't help but think we should have moved on to Clyne once our second bid for Debuchy got rejected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I think the first XI is a bit of a misleading phrase really, because a good selection of first team players should always have another 4 or so players beyond that competing, it's more like a first XV. Chelsea, even last season when they finished behind us, were able to alternate their line up at points and were comfortable having three players each of around similar ability competing for two places. a line-up constantly evolves throughout a season depending on who is in form and what is available to you, which is why i always thought people saying we don't need Adam Johnson or Affelay was weird - it's always good to have options, especially creative players when our two strikers both lack a bit in that department. That's why a Remy type player (or even cheaper players like Sinclair, Mirallis, Moses etc) would've been a great coup as they'd put our whole front-three under pressure and would be ready to start in the event of suspension, injury, international duty or poor form. Last season you had players like Guthrie, Best, Obertan, Raylor who were considered firmly as part of those first XV positions, in so much as that they were getting long runs in the first team and even keeping out more talented players like Ben Arfa or Santon for various reasons, and it was up to those other players to do a bit extra to displace them. At one point Guthrie took up the mantle of our most creative central midfielder and Cabaye was used in a more work man like role. In fact even Cisse started from the bench in his first game and it took an injury to take Best out of the side (the rest is history as they say...). This season I think Obertan, due to his horrific showings, may have fallen out of this premier group and more into the Sammy, Ferguson, Vuckic, Bigi, Shola, Gosling range of actual back-ups, while we've lost Best (who got the best out of Ba) and Guthrie, though replaced him with Anita. I think Amalfitano is currently considered a squad filler/back up though i think he'll gradually start to compete after 6 months or so once he gets used to the physical demands of moving from Ligue 2. Last season we all said we needed more players of first team quality to compete and we haven't done that, we've probably gotten a bit worse in this regard, while being faced with (hopefully) a lot more extra games to deal with. However i'd argue that the reserve squad is better equipped apart from up-front, just not sure how many are good enough, even for european nights. The one position in which we could've easily upgraded in the first team was RB and so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Simpson rejected our final contract offer around 10th May btw. Sixteen weeks ago. 'Just couldn't get one over the line.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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