Pardew Out?

[thomas]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

Do you have any theories as to why the football world at large is either oblivious to these traits - personally I doubt this - or are covering them up with a conspiracy on a level that would make Parky blush?

[Robster]

Wigan game is on Monday btw.  Trial by TV.

It's the live game?

[KaKa]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

 

Interesting, not sure I agree. I think Rodgers genuinely went about learning how to play a brand of football he admired and believed in.

 

I watch Liverpool, and they are playing far better stuff than they were under Dalglish. Suarez who many said wasn't a finisher last season, now looks even better, and is scoring more, from the better chances he is getting.

 

Also, youngsters are coming into the team, and are being given the freedom to play, and are performing.

 

He's hardly spent anything, and imo is moving the team to a better place than they were last year under Dalglish.

 

If you look at the two managers Rodgers is the one that deserves more time, if anything, because the football is better, and he is clearly able to get his ideas across. Also, the talent in the academy is actually being utilised now, and is clearly being developed.

 

What does Pardew have to show for himself?

 

 

 

5th place finish, in his first full season in charge?

 

 

And this automatically gives him a pass regardless of how bad things get, until when? When is long enough.

 

If he was seemingly trying different things to find a solution I would understand where you were coming from.

 

Instead he dismissed tactics and formations, and said these weren't an issue last year.

 

I mean why would he say that? It was so ridiculous.

 

He should be looking at every possible option to improve things.

 

Seriously worried about the guy as manager.

[Guest icemanblue]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

 

Interesting, not sure I agree. I think Rodgers genuinely went about learning how to play a brand of football he admired and believed in.

 

I watch Liverpool, and they are playing far better stuff than they were under Dalglish. Suarez who many said wasn't a finisher last season, now looks even better, and is scoring more, from the better chances he is getting.

 

Also, youngsters are coming into the team, and are being given the freedom to play, and are performing.

 

He's hardly spent anything, and imo is moving the team to a better place than they were last year under Dalglish.

 

If you look at the two managers Rodgers is the one that deserves more time, if anything, because the football is better, and he is clearly able to get his ideas across. Also, the talent in the academy is actually being utilised now, and is clearly being developed.

 

What does Pardew have to show for himself?

 

 

 

5th place finish, in his first full season in charge?

 

 

And this automatically gives him a pass regardless of how bad things get, until when? When is long enough.

 

If he was seemingly trying different things to find a solution I would understand where you were coming from.

 

Instead he dismissed tactics and formations, and said these weren't an issue last year.

 

I mean why would he say that? It was so ridiculous.

 

He should be looking at every possible option to improve things.

 

Seriously worried about the guy as manager.

 

What?

[KaKa]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

 

Interesting, not sure I agree. I think Rodgers genuinely went about learning how to play a brand of football he admired and believed in.

 

I watch Liverpool, and they are playing far better stuff than they were under Dalglish. Suarez who many said wasn't a finisher last season, now looks even better, and is scoring more, from the better chances he is getting.

 

Also, youngsters are coming into the team, and are being given the freedom to play, and are performing.

 

He's hardly spent anything, and imo is moving the team to a better place than they were last year under Dalglish.

 

If you look at the two managers Rodgers is the one that deserves more time, if anything, because the football is better, and he is clearly able to get his ideas across. Also, the talent in the academy is actually being utilised now, and is clearly being developed.

 

What does Pardew have to show for himself?

 

 

 

5th place finish, in his first full season in charge?

 

 

And this automatically gives him a pass regardless of how bad things get, until when? When is long enough.

 

If he was seemingly trying different things to find a solution I would understand where you were coming from.

 

Instead he dismissed tactics and formations, and said these weren't an issue last year.

 

I mean why would he say that? It was so ridiculous.

 

He should be looking at every possible option to improve things.

 

Seriously worried about the guy as manager.

 

What?

 

what?

[Guest icemanblue]

What are you on about, man? You asked what Pardew had to show for his time in charge here, implying he had achieved nothing. I told you two things that he's achieved. Now, you're rambling on about it giving him an automatic free pass for something or other?!

[KaKa]

What are you on about, man? You asked what Pardew had to show for his time in charge here, implying he had achieved nothing. I told you two things that he's achieved. Now, you're rambling on about it giving him an automatic free pass for something or other?!

 

When I said what did he have to show. I meant what was he currently doing to continue to earn faith in his abilities as a manager.

 

When I was talking about Rodgers. I mentioned the positives that could be taken from his spell as manager of liverpool so far, that would warrant him being given more time, despite the results not quite being satisfactory.

 

Currently, it doesn't seem Pardew is getting a single thing right imo. Yes, he finished fifth, as manager of the year last season, but that doesn't justify him beign given time, if he's failing to do even the simplest things. The man is doggedly sticking with something that isn't working, and hasn't been for a long time now. It's nonsensical.

[afar]

Stoke fans are calling us fickle linking this thread on their forums, I'm sure we don't care but think it's the general perception of other fans, and kinda perpetuates the image our support has.

[Doctor Zaius]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

 

Interesting, not sure I agree. I think Rodgers genuinely went about learning how to play a brand of football he admired and believed in.

 

I watch Liverpool, and they are playing far better stuff than they were under Dalglish. Suarez who many said wasn't a finisher last season, now looks even better, and is scoring more, from the better chances he is getting.

 

Also, youngsters are coming into the team, and are being given the freedom to play, and are performing.

 

He's hardly spent anything, and imo is moving the team to a better place than they were last year under Dalglish.

 

If you look at the two managers Rodgers is the one that deserves more time, if anything, because the football is better, and he is clearly able to get his ideas across. Also, the talent in the academy is actually being utilised now, and is clearly being developed.

 

What does Pardew have to show for himself?

 

 

 

5th place finish, in his first full season in charge?

 

EDIT: Manager of the Year, too.

 

:lol: Some people on here man.

[Guest icemanblue]

What are you on about, man? You asked what Pardew had to show for his time in charge here, implying he had achieved nothing. I told you two things that he's achieved. Now, you're rambling on about it giving him an automatic free pass for something or other?!

 

When I said what did he have to show. I meant what was he currently doing to continue to earn faith in his abilities as a manager.

 

When I was talking about Rodgers. I mentioned the positives that could be taken from his spell as manager of liverpool so far, that would warrant him being given more time, despite the results not quite being satisfactory.

 

Currently, it doesn't seem Pardew is getting a single thing right imo. Yes, he finished fifth, as manager of the year last season, but that doesn't justify him beign given time, if he's failing to do even the simplest things. The man is doggedly sticking with something that isn't working, and hasn't been for a long time now. It's nonsensical.

 

Nah, that's bollocks, imo. It's a daft comparison, too. Up until a few weeks ago, Rodgers was being ridiculed by everyone.

 

Pardew does deserve time to turn things around for the reasons I've mentioned. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't believe that is an absolute fool. If he hasn't turned things round by the end of January, then he'll rightly be under a massive amount of pressure.

[Guest neesy111]

Would be typical of us if he is to be sacked to do it at the end of a transfer window.

[Nobody]

The Moyes/Pardew comparison has one major flaw - if Moyes played a pretty direct style for a while it's because those were the type of players he was working with. Pardew is trying to play direct football with a squad of flair players. There's a worrying lack of understanding as to how to get the best out of some very decent players, far more than Everton had, and IMO we still have a squad which is equal to, if not better than Everton's.

 

Can't be arsed with the individual player comparisons but it's safe to say the squads are of a very similar quality, on paper. Both lack real strength in depth, as well. (As a brief aside, I wouldn't go overboard on us. We've won once in the last 7 games, dropping points game after game against relegation candidates - so we've got a lot of work to do to be considered genuine top 4 contenders, as people would have us made out as.)

 

The bit in bold though rings particularly true. When you're working with the likes of Pistone, Naysmith, Kilbane, Weir, Stubbs, Gravesen, Carsley, Marcus Bent, Big Dunc and other such footballing artists, you're probably going to get scrappy, direct football. And up to a point I'm in full support of that. Moyes has been given the chance to change the style over numerous years, taking us from regular relegation candidates to regular European contenders, and around 2007ish, I felt we were really improving as a football team. Indeed most of the media and lazy pundits would consistently have you believe we were nothing more than a hard working side up until even last year, when in fact we've generally played some good stuff for a number of years now. That's only come about because one man has been able to imprint his own philosophy on the club and has fostered a very good team spirit, coming about because of the momentum we've built over the seasons. Momentum has come from stability.

 

But back to the point; when you have talented footballers like Cabaye, Ben Arfa and so on and insist on playing long balls, it makes no sense. Perhaps Pardew in some way thought that consolidating last year's efforts meant becoming more direct, more defensive, more "safe". This of course is a ludicrous mentality to have and very damaging to boot, it regresses progress. You don't move forward as a club by standing still. Standing still is, essentially, like regression. Other teams improve, and you get left behind.

 

Last year was not a fluke. You didn't finish above 15 other teams just by being lucky. You do it because you develop a system suited to the players, and in particular a system that brings the best out of your best players i.e. Ba/Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye. It's baffling he isn't having a go with the same 4-3-3 that brought you so much joy last year. Is it all just so Ba can play up top? It makes little to no sense. I don't, fwiw, think 4-4-2 is as shit a formation as the footballing world seems to make out. It can still work very well, if you have 2 genuine wingers on each side. I wouldn't call Jonas or Ben Arfa traditional wingers however - especially as sticking Ben Arfa solely out wide takes away so much from his game. So everything points to a 4-3-3, with Ba, Cisse and Ben Arfa up front with - I assume - Cabaye, Tiote and Anita in some combination in midfield? Or a 4-2-3-1 with a very similar set up.

 

Injuries play a part, sure, but they don't account for going from the 5th best team in the league to losing to West Ham and Swansea at home and then Southampton. This whole "well we had a game on Thursday" stuff is infuriating to hear as a fan as well. Don't insult fans' intelligence with crap like that, especially after seeing a performance where it was clear the team just wasn't good enough to win.

 

For all the ifs, buts and speculation though, I firmly think it would be ridiculous to get rid of him so soon. It's not sentimental to say that he deserves a chance to pull things around, and not getting rid at the first sign of trouble. What's to say the grass will be greener on the other side? The main thing, from my POV anyway from watching you play this year, is that Pardew needs to worry a lot less about what the opposition might do, and spend more time getting more out of your own talented players, and give the opposition something to worry about.

Excellent post

[KaKa]

What are you on about, man? You asked what Pardew had to show for his time in charge here, implying he had achieved nothing. I told you two things that he's achieved. Now, you're rambling on about it giving him an automatic free pass for something or other?!

 

When I said what did he have to show. I meant what was he currently doing to continue to earn faith in his abilities as a manager.

 

When I was talking about Rodgers. I mentioned the positives that could be taken from his spell as manager of liverpool so far, that would warrant him being given more time, despite the results not quite being satisfactory.

 

Currently, it doesn't seem Pardew is getting a single thing right imo. Yes, he finished fifth, as manager of the year last season, but that doesn't justify him beign given time, if he's failing to do even the simplest things. The man is doggedly sticking with something that isn't working, and hasn't been for a long time now. It's nonsensical.

 

Nah, that's bollocks, imo. It's a daft comparison, too. Up until a few weeks ago, Rodgers was being ridiculed by everyone.

 

Pardew does deserve time to turn things around for the reasons I've mentioned. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't believe that is an absolute fool. If he hasn't turned things round by the end of January, then he'll rightly be under a massive amount of pressure.

 

Okay, fair enough. I'll be a fool unitl January then.

 

I just don't see any sign that the guy even knows where to begin with sorting things.

[Parky]

I don't think there's a distinct correlation between the type of player somebody was and the type of manager they become, tbh.

 

Same here but I do believe a correlation can be made between what kind of character they are and their abilities/ideas or lack of. KK for example was an extrovert,a  real charmer, a very positive forward thinking person and that's how his side played. Bobby was a bubbly positive person as well, full of adventure and excitable. Dalglish on the other hand was dour and that's how his sides played. Pardew is a bit false if you ask me, he's a working class bloke in an Armani suit with Hugo Boss glasses, a cosmopolitan wife and a dossier for every team and player. He has created an image for himself and speaks a good game, but when that image is exposed, well, he's just a working class bloke underneath it all. We play like his character. We are just a workmanlike team basically.

 

I run my own business and whenever I employ someone I always look at their character first and what kind of person they are. We have one kid working for us, he's a lazy so and so but he's a very funny kid and very likeable, he makes others tick. Give me him over a harder working kid who has nowt about him. You can tell a lot about a manager from their character and just what kind of managers they are or will be.

 

That's a very astute post HTT.

[KaKa]

Fans of other clubs always want to call you fickle when you are unhappy with the manager.

 

It's stupid. Stoke fans can accept the football they play, because they have a bunch of oversized goons that are tailored to this style of rugby.

 

I think very little of their opinion really.

[ponsaelius]

Frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck what Stoke fans think. They blissfully enjoy watching their expensively assembled collection of spare parts, aging cloggers and 6 ft plus giants play for binary results every week so it makes sense they'd struggle to grasp our infuriation at watching rank awful football every week.

 

Or maybe they aren't so blissful, when you see their increasingly dwindling away following.

[Guest neesy111]

All football fans are fickle tbh because they all want what's the best for their club.

[Hughesy]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

 

What on earth are you banging on about?  Is Arsene Wenger just a French bloke underneath?

[Neil]

Frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck what Stoke fans think. They blissfully enjoy watching their expensively assembled collection of spare parts, aging cloggers and 6 ft plus giants play for binary results every week so it makes sense they'd struggle to grasp our infuriation at watching rank awful football every week.

 

Or maybe they aren't so blissful, when you see their increasingly dwindling away following.

 

Thought you'd say something like that, and I entirely agree. To see them have the money they have had at their disposal and make no effort of improving their truly atrocious football is pretty depressing. They're firmly in the "not good enough to do anything of note, but not quite shit enough to go down" category.

[Ikon]

Whatever i do and see i want to enjoy as much as possible, and get entertained and excited about. I have never wished us to lose a game, and i probably never will, but no matter what happens i'd like to see Pardew replaced as our manager as he simply isn't the manager that wants to, nor is capable of playing the type of style that makes me love football.

 

Maybe he will be able to turn it around results wise (not likely), but i just can't ever see him make us play the football that i so much want us to play. No matter i like it or not, this club will always affect me personally. Can't just break up like!

[KaKa]

All these managers become so obsessed with winning at any cost.

 

This is a form of entertainment you know? That really should matter.

 

How do you own a club, and hire someone who only signs players over 6ft tall, for the sole purpose of bouncing the ball of their heads.

 

Honestly, people are damn shameless.

[Parky]

By the way Rodgers at Liverpool is a bit like Pardew, a bit of a fraud, another who has created an image for himself designed on others' traits but in reality he's just some Northern Irish bloke underneath. He'll get found out, they all do.

 

What on earth are you banging on about?  Is Arsene Wenger just a French bloke underneath?

 

Yeah Wenger man total charlatan. French as well.

[thomas]

I notice the personality/playing attribute comparison with Souness as a player then manager was missing. Perhaps this isn't the solid body of scientific work we thought it was.

[Parky]

I notice the personality/playing attribute comparison with Souness as a player then manager was missing. Perhaps this isn't the solid body of scientific work we thought it was.

 

The silver fox hunts at night.

[eliassenfredrik]

All these managers become so obsessed with winning at any cost.

 

This is a form of entertainment you know? That really should matter.

 

How do you own a club, and hire someone who only signs players over 6ft tall, for the sole purpose of bouncing the ball of their heads.

 

Honestly, people are damn shameless.

 

Winning at any cost is sadly the most important part of the game for a lot of managers. It will however not work for the eternity of time, and opposition quickly figure them out, making it easier to counter their inevitable "plan".

 

Of course fans want 3 points, but imo wins like vs WBA means very little in the big picture. It's not perceived legitimate.