Who would you go for?

[TRon]

Do you really think that all he is doing is the bare minimum?

 

I do. Steve Bruce had them in 14th and 11th before Martinez came in which is something Martinez hasn't been able to replicate. Were their wages/turnover at this time significantly more?

 

Paul Jewell also managed to keep them in the league around the position Martinez normally gets them finishing in.

 

Since he has come in he has got them either finishing at the same or a lower position as managers we would be horrified at. If he had anything special about him I would expect him to perform better.

 

Maybe he is a class manager who will go on to have a top career but I don't see it at the moment.

 

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it Cajun. Unless you really rate Bruce and Jewell as better managers than Martinez.

[Cajun]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

[Guest neesy111]

He got them to an FA Cup final.  Something we haven't done in 14 years.

[Tooj]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

[Cajun]

Do you really think that all he is doing is the bare minimum?

 

I do. Steve Bruce had them in 14th and 11th before Martinez came in which is something Martinez hasn't been able to replicate. Were their wages/turnover at this time significantly more?

 

Paul Jewell also managed to keep them in the league around the position Martinez normally gets them finishing in.

 

Since he has come in he has got them either finishing at the same or a lower position as managers we would be horrified at. If he had anything special about him I would expect him to perform better.

 

Maybe he is a class manager who will go on to have a top career but I don't see it at the moment.

 

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it Cajun. Unless you really rate Bruce and Jewell as better managers than Martinez.

 

Why does having a different opinion to some mean you are arguing for the sake of it on here? There are obvious WUMs who are just looking for bites but because I don't see what some see in Martinez I am arguing for the sake of it?

 

Should we not have discussions/debates on a forum? Just find have a poll to find the common consensus and all agree that's the right opinion?

[TRon]

Do you really think that all he is doing is the bare minimum?

 

I do. Steve Bruce had them in 14th and 11th before Martinez came in which is something Martinez hasn't been able to replicate. Were their wages/turnover at this time significantly more?

 

Paul Jewell also managed to keep them in the league around the position Martinez normally gets them finishing in.

 

Since he has come in he has got them either finishing at the same or a lower position as managers we would be horrified at. If he had anything special about him I would expect him to perform better.

 

Maybe he is a class manager who will go on to have a top career but I don't see it at the moment.

 

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it Cajun. Unless you really rate Bruce and Jewell as better managers than Martinez.

 

Why does having a different opinion to some mean you are arguing for the sake of it on here? There are obvious WUMs who are just looking for bites but because I don't see what some see in Martinez I am arguing for the sake of it?

 

Should we not have discussions/debates on a forum? Just find have a poll to find the common consensus and all agree that's the right opinion?

 

I'm not saying you have to agree with everyone else, but what's the point of using Bruce and Jewell as a stick to beat on Martinez? You might well be right that Martinez is over-rated but using selective stats isn't going to make your case. Unless you want to back your words and say that you think those two are better managers.

[Cajun]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

 

You're interpreting what I am saying wrong. I am not saying he is just getting them to survive and putting his feet up, I am saying he is performing at a level that would be the minimum requirement before people start questioning his suitability for the role.

 

 

[Cajun]

Do you really think that all he is doing is the bare minimum?

 

I do. Steve Bruce had them in 14th and 11th before Martinez came in which is something Martinez hasn't been able to replicate. Were their wages/turnover at this time significantly more?

 

Paul Jewell also managed to keep them in the league around the position Martinez normally gets them finishing in.

 

Since he has come in he has got them either finishing at the same or a lower position as managers we would be horrified at. If he had anything special about him I would expect him to perform better.

 

Maybe he is a class manager who will go on to have a top career but I don't see it at the moment.

 

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it Cajun. Unless you really rate Bruce and Jewell as better managers than Martinez.

 

Why does having a different opinion to some mean you are arguing for the sake of it on here? There are obvious WUMs who are just looking for bites but because I don't see what some see in Martinez I am arguing for the sake of it?

 

Should we not have discussions/debates on a forum? Just find have a poll to find the common consensus and all agree that's the right opinion?

 

I'm not saying you have to agree with everyone else, but what's the point of using Bruce and Jewell as a stick to beat on Martinez? You might well be right that Martinez is over-rated but using selective stats isn't going to make your case. Unless you want to back your words and say that you think those two are better managers.

 

He has come in and done no better in terms of results as the previous two managers. For that reason I don't see what is special about him even if he has got them knocking it about a bit better

[TRon]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

 

You're interpreting what I am saying wrong. I am not saying he is just getting them to survive and putting his feet up, I am saying he is performing at a level that would be the minimum requirement before people start questioning his suitability for the role.

 

 

 

He's playing good football with sub-standard players. There are some managers who even with two teams of multi-million pound signings seem to struggle to do that.

[Superior Acuña]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

 

I think he means bare minimum of their goal, not with the bare minimum of effort.

 

And I'd agree with him. Martinez does nothing more than you'd expect, Wigan were an established PL club by the time he took over, and he's just maintained that (or lowered it, given his inferior league standing to Bruce).

[Cajun]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

 

I think he means bare minimum of their goal, not with the bare minimum of effort.

 

And I'd agree with him. Martinez does nothing more than you'd expect, Wigan were an established PL club by the time he took over, and he's just maintained that (or lowered it, given his inferior league standing to Bruce).

 

[TRon]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

 

I think he means bare minimum of their goal, not with the bare minimum of effort.

 

And I'd agree with him. Martinez does nothing more than you'd expect, Wigan were an established PL club by the time he took over, and he's just maintained that (or lowered it, given his inferior league standing to Bruce).

 

So you don't rate Martinez, question the wisdom of Di Canio's appointment in another thread and are championing Steve Bruce as a superior manager to both. I'm impressed by your football intelligence

 

 

[Cajun]

So you really just assume that Martinez is going to work every day and just doing the bare minimum to keep Wigan treading water and taking his foot off the gas at taking them further forward?

 

No, I'm not saying he just can't be arsed to take them forward I am questioning if he has the ability to do it.

That's a bit different to doing the bare minimum though man.

 

I think he means bare minimum of their goal, not with the bare minimum of effort.

 

And I'd agree with him. Martinez does nothing more than you'd expect, Wigan were an established PL club by the time he took over, and he's just maintained that (or lowered it, given his inferior league standing to Bruce).

 

So you don't rate Martinez, question the wisdom of Di Canio's appointment in another thread and are championing Steve Bruce as a superior manager to both. I'm impressed by your football intelligence

 

 

 

How do you rate a manager? Not saying Martinez isn't a better manager than Bruce but Bruce's 2 finishes at Wigan were higher than Martinez has managed in 4 seasons so how can you accurately judge?

 

I can understand the questioning of Di Canio's appointment too, especially long term.

 

But then I am probably just arguing for the sake of it

[TRon]

Yes you are

[Cajun]

Out of interest can you clarify what makes Martinez a better manager than Bruce? I am not being sarcastic or argumentative here, I just have this naive idea that final league positions with the same resources are a fairly accurate indicator of how a manager might be performing.

 

I am genuinely interested to know why people rate Martinez as a good manager and why we can discount his predecessors getting the same (or better) results from the team? His net spent does look better tbf to him but then he did sell two players Bruce signed for around £1m for about £28m.

[Guest]

A few people seem to think that more attractive football makes a better manager. Allardyce and Pulis are better managers than Martinez in my opinion.

[Bish]

A few people seem to think that more attractive football makes a better manager. Allardyce and Pulis are better managers than Martinez in my opinion.

 

Pulis is an awful manager. If Martinez spent as much as Pulis did I'm certain they'd be higher in the league, as well as playing better football

[Mick]

A few people seem to think that more attractive football makes a better manager. Allardyce and Pulis are better managers than Martinez in my opinion.

 

 

What makes Pulis better than Martinez?

 

I'm not a massive fan of Martinez but he does get his teams playing good football and he doesn't have the money to spend that the two you mention have.  If Wigan had Carroll leading the attack they would be much further up the table as they play good football without having a cutting edge most of the time.

[Dr Venkman]

Can anyone provide a reasonable argument as to why Martinez wouldn't be a better manager than Pardew with this set of players? I imagine we'll continue to bring in quick, technical players as well. There's fuck all quick or technical about Pardew football.

[colinmk]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

[Si]

A few people seem to think that more attractive football makes a better manager. Allardyce and Pulis are better managers than Martinez in my opinion.

 

My word.

[Guest]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

 

I wouldn't want either tbh. Not sure why it's ludicrous to think Pulis is better though. Up until this season they've alway been comfortable mid-table.

 

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

[Darth Crooks]

Why the fuck is Tony Pulis being mentioned in this thread?

[Dr Venkman]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

 

I wouldn't want either tbh. Not sure why it's ludicrous to think Pulis is better though. Up until this season they've alway been comfortable mid-table.

 

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Depends what you go to the match for. With the players we've got and will continue to get under Carr's guidance, more attractive does mean better.

[Bish]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

 

I wouldn't want either tbh. Not sure why it's ludicrous to think Pulis is better though. Up until this season they've alway been comfortable mid-table.

 

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

That's because Stoke have a net spend of £80m over the past 5 seasons, comfortable mid-table is underachieving with that kind of spend.