Who would you go for?

[Mole_Toonfan]

On Martinez i think his ideas and tactics make it quite easy for him to make the step up and i do expect him to get a bigger job at some point.

 

However i wouldn't want him here and even if i did there is no way in hell Whelan is letting Ashley have his manager.

[TRon]

Out of interest can you clarify what makes Martinez a better manager than Bruce? I am not being sarcastic or argumentative here, I just have this naive idea that final league positions with the same resources are a fairly accurate indicator of how a manager might be performing.

 

I am genuinely interested to know why people rate Martinez as a good manager and why we can discount his predecessors getting the same (or better) results from the team? His net spent does look better tbf to him but then he did sell two players Bruce signed for around £1m for about £28m.

 

Bruce was considered a better manager at the time, but he's since been manager of Sunderland where he became a joke figure. Are you just going to leave that bit out?

 

As for Tony Pulis and Sam Allardyce being better managers, they are playing a type of football which suits teams with limited resources. Maybe Martinez should ditch his principles and do likewise, because without a doubt it's a lot harder to stay in the premier playing passing football with limited players. Given the squads at their disposal, I have a feeling if we swapped managers with Wigan we might both be better off. Although Wigan would probably get relegated so that's a lie.

[Guest]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

 

I wouldn't want either tbh. Not sure why it's ludicrous to think Pulis is better though. Up until this season they've alway been comfortable mid-table.

 

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Depends what you go to the match for. With the players we've got and will continue to get under Carr's guidance, more attractive does mean better.

 

Attractive football obviously, but I remember Wigan up here this season and the first half was ridiculous. They must have played about 5-6 suicide balls from the keeper and defence because they're told to do that. Even when they went down to ten, they didn't really change and a better team than us in better form than us could have scored 10 that night.

[Dr Venkman]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

 

I wouldn't want either tbh. Not sure why it's ludicrous to think Pulis is better though. Up until this season they've alway been comfortable mid-table.

 

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Depends what you go to the match for. With the players we've got and will continue to get under Carr's guidance, more attractive does mean better.

 

Attractive football obviously, but I remember Wigan up here this season and the first half was ridiculous. They must have played about 5-6 suicide balls from the keeper and defence because they're told to do that. Even when they went down to ten, they didn't really change and a better team than us in better form than us could have scored 10 that night.

 

Fair enough. I think it's all pretty meaningless though. Only one thing matters, do you think he'd be better than Pardew?

[ponsaelius]

Amazingly simplistic, tunnel vision judgement to think Pulis is superior than Martinez because he's had a few 13th/14th placed finishes instead of a few 15th/16th placed finishes. Only one of the two managers would be able to make a natural, sliding improvement when given better players to work with and its certainly not Pulis. Pulis is from the Pardew school of the better players he's given the worse he'll get, such is his backwards management style that belongs nowhere near the top flight.

[Darth Crooks]

Pulis a better manager than Martinez man, honestly?

 

Pulis has a football team of giants playing hybrid rugby football. It is clear to see Martinez has a good footballing philosophy on the go, something that will be sustainable and will undoubtably improve with better players. I'm not sure I'd want him as our manager but to say Pulis is a better manager is bordering on ridiculous for me.

 

I wouldn't want either tbh. Not sure why it's ludicrous to think Pulis is better though. Up until this season they've alway been comfortable mid-table.

 

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Depends what you go to the match for. With the players we've got and will continue to get under Carr's guidance, more attractive does mean better.

 

Attractive football obviously, but I remember Wigan up here this season and the first half was ridiculous. They must have played about 5-6 suicide balls from the keeper and defence because they're told to do that. Even when they went down to ten, they didn't really change and a better team than us in better form than us could have scored 10 that night.

 

Fair enough. I think it's all pretty meaningless though. Only one thing matters, do you think he'd be better than Pardew?

 

The answer is yes. This clown is going to cost us our enthusiasm, our players and at worst out league status. Thats the bottom line.

[Guest]

Yes but I think we can do better than Martinez. Upgrading Pardew for Martinez would be like upgrading Ameobi for Di Santo. Is he better? Yes. Is he easier on the eye? Yes. Would I want him? No.

[ponsaelius]

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Yes it does. Nobody wins leagues playing Allardyce/Pulisball. You're always better going with a manager that has an actual footballing philosophy if you want to achieve something - whether that is all out attacking football, possession based, counter-attacking, or more cautious. Something that is actually transferable to a top side, not this Rugby style/long ball/numbers game bollocks where you buy players to fit into the tactic and bully your way to 13th in the league.

 

The latter shouldn't exist, it goes against the entire notion of competition in the league. These guys are happy to pick up away draws where they can, spunk money on aging dross, buy handydowns from Man Utd and simply be happy with expensive mediocrity because it keeps them in a job until people just get bored with apathy. A disease on the league.

[TRon]

Yes but I think we can do better than Martinez. Upgrading Pardew for Martinez would be like upgrading Ameobi for Di Santo. Is he better? Yes. Is he easier on the eye? Yes. Would I want him? No.

 

Not surprising since you'd rather have Allardyce or Pulis since you consider them better managers.

[Darth Crooks]

Realitically, we might get martinez but you're either looking abroad or the lower leagues. I'm not sure who to go for; its the job of the higher powers to do the right thing. Pardew is poison and no matter how incremental the improvement it has to change a soon as possible.

[colinmk]

Realitically, we might get martinez but you're either looking abroad or the lower leagues. I'm not sure who to go for; its the job of the higher powers to do the right thing. Pardew is poison and no matter how incremental the improvement it has to change a soon as possible.

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I think Martinez would be a massive upgrade on Pardew personally. He wouldn't be my first choice but he would be worth the upgrade.

[Cajun]

Out of interest can you clarify what makes Martinez a better manager than Bruce? I am not being sarcastic or argumentative here, I just have this naive idea that final league positions with the same resources are a fairly accurate indicator of how a manager might be performing.

 

I am genuinely interested to know why people rate Martinez as a good manager and why we can discount his predecessors getting the same (or better) results from the team? His net spent does look better tbf to him but then he did sell two players Bruce signed for around £1m for about £28m.

 

Bruce was considered a better manager at the time, but he's since been manager of Sunderland where he became a joke figure. Are you just going to leave that bit out?

 

As for Tony Pulis and Sam Allardyce being better managers, they are playing a type of football which suits teams with limited resources. Maybe Martinez should ditch his principles and do likewise, because without a doubt it's a lot harder to stay in the premier playing passing football with limited players. Given the squads at their disposal, I have a feeling if we swapped managers with Wigan we might both be better off. Although Wigan would probably get relegated so that's a lie.

 

Why would I include Bruce's Sunderland career when I am talking about what managers have managed to get out of Wigan? Martinez hasn't moved on so it's impossible to compare what they did after Wigan, I am only going what they have done in practically identical circumstances and Bruce performed better.

 

Does that mean he will end up the better manager at the end of their careers? I don't know.

 

Even Pardew has got a team to a cup final (West Ham) and managed to get a team performing above their outlay (us last season).

 

Not sure what elevates Martinez above other managers who have got exactly what was expected out of their squads.

[Tooj]

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Yes it does. Nobody wins leagues playing Allardyce/Pulisball. You're always better going with a manager that has an actual footballing philosophy if you want to achieve something - whether that is all out attacking football, possession based, counter-attacking, or more cautious. Something that is actually transferable to a top side, not this Rugby style/long ball/numbers game bollocks where you buy players to fit into the tactic and bully your way to 13th in the league.

 

The latter shouldn't exist, it goes against the entire notion of competition in the league. These guys are happy to pick up away draws where they can, spunk money on aging dross, buy handydowns from Man Utd and simply be happy with expensive mediocrity because it keeps them in a job until people just get bored with apathy. A disease on the league.

[Darth Crooks]

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Yes it does. Nobody wins leagues playing Allardyce/Pulisball. You're always better going with a manager that has an actual footballing philosophy if you want to achieve something - whether that is all out attacking football, possession based, counter-attacking, or more cautious. Something that is actually transferable to a top side, not this Rugby style/long ball/numbers game bollocks where you buy players to fit into the tactic and bully your way to 13th in the league.

 

The latter shouldn't exist, it goes against the entire notion of competition in the league. These guys are happy to pick up away draws where they can, spunk money on aging dross, buy handydowns from Man Utd and simply be happy with expensive mediocrity because it keeps them in a job until people just get bored with apathy. A disease on the league.

 

I am a disciple of Sewell.

[Guest]

The bulk of that message backs up my point though. More attractive football doesn't neccesarily mean better.

 

Yes it does. Nobody wins leagues playing Allardyce/Pulisball. You're always better going with a manager that has an actual footballing philosophy if you want to achieve something - whether that is all out attacking football, possession based, counter-attacking, or more cautious. Something that is actually transferable to a top side, not this Rugby style/long ball/numbers game bollocks where you buy players to fit into the tactic and bully your way to 13th in the league.

 

The latter shouldn't exist, it goes against the entire notion of competition in the league. These guys are happy to pick up away draws where they can, spunk money on aging dross, buy handydowns from Man Utd and simply be happy with expensive mediocrity because it keeps them in a job until people just get bored with apathy. A disease on the league.

 

I was talking in terms of those three managers alone and their clubs, not winning titles. There's no evidence whatsoever that Martinez will do more than what those two have done for Bolton, Stoke and even Blackburn.

[olliemort]

How could anyone turn there nose up at Martinez like.You know If Ashley hires a new manager he will be (a) cheap and (b) one of his casino buddy's or whatever.Anyones why bother wasting your time debating It as If Whelan would let him join us

[Guest palnese]

How much would someone like Martinez cost us? A few mill?

[ponsaelius]

I think there is plenty reason to believe that Martinez is more transferable to a top club due to his age and his philosophy of football. The others are at best mid-table managers who would fail disasterously if they were even given a sniff of a bigger club, prime example being Allardyce's chronic attempt to turn us into Bolton with a bigger ground.

 

I'm not saying Martinez is a guarenteed success, but he's by far a better bet. No point even discussing what 'success' they've had in their respective clubs, its irrelevant if that success if based on expensive hoofball that isn't transferable.

[Darth Crooks]

I think there is plenty reason to believe that Martinez is more transferable to a top club due to his age and his philosophy of football. The others are at best mid-table managers who would fail disasterously if they were even given a sniff of a bigger club, just like Allardyce's chronic attempt to turn us into Bolton with a bigger ground.

 

I don't think those turning their noses up at the likes of martinez realise how chronic a situation we are in. Cite hyperbole if you want but this season has shown nothing but total regression; its not just 'a poor season, better luck next year lol'

[Darth Crooks]

I think there is plenty reason to believe that Martinez is more transferable to a top club due to his age and his philosophy of football. The others are at best mid-table managers who would fail disasterously if they were even given a sniff of a bigger club, prime example being Allardyce's chronic attempt to turn us into Bolton with a bigger ground.

 

I'm not saying Martinez is a guarenteed success, but he's by far a better bet.

 

He's certainly better than Pardew in that he can actually organise a team and implement a style of football

 

Exactly what is lacking. Im not saying that Martinez in the man but it's not going to happen without action from the 'board.'

[Dr Venkman]

Yes but I think we can do better than Martinez. Upgrading Pardew for Martinez would be like upgrading Ameobi for Di Santo. Is he better? Yes. Is he easier on the eye? Yes. Would I want him? No.

 

So you think he'd be better than the current manager but you don't want him?

 

If you were given a choice of:

 

a) Roberto Martinez

 

b) Ashley's pick

 

Which one do you go with?

[Guest]

I think the next manager will be much better. Can see good managers seeing us as a much better choice than what we were at any other time under Ashley.

[Cajun]

Can I point out none of my comments are based on the choice of Martinez or Pardew, they are based solely on Martinez and the hype he gets.

 

If it popped up on SSN that we had sacked Pardew and appointed Martinez I would be very excited, apprehensive but excited. That would be because we were actually going to try and play football more than any real hope we were going to become a force in the league.

 

I don't think we would go for him anyway based on Whelan and us having to pay some sort of compensation.

[Guest]

Can I point out none of my comments are based on the choice of Martinez or Pardew, they are based solely on Martinez and the hype he gets.

 

If it popped up on SSN that we had sacked Pardew and appointed Martinez I would be very excited, apprehensive but excited. That would be because we were actually going to try and play football more than any real hope we were going to become a force in the league.

 

I don't think we would go for him anyway based on Whelan and us having to pay some sort of compensation.

 

This pretty much.