Guest Gemmill Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 You're making me blush. What's he done? Has he mentioned your never ending support for Souness when he was here? Slowly we become the thing we hate the most. Hello Leazes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Can't keep up with this thread, but defending our performances this season using statistics is mental. The key statistics are the ones sprawled across the league table which show categorically that we've been complete and utter guff, and even they don't tell the full story. We've produced nothing more than negative, disorganised s*** all season long aside from a few select games. I find it incredible that stats are being used to prove something when people’s eyes are telling them something else. We’ve been garbage for most of this season and that wouldn’t change if somebody found a stat to say that we were the best, we weren't, we've been shite no matter how it gets dressed up. Exactly, but some people could find a sugar strand in a shit and argue that the whole thing tasted nice if it suited them. When it comes to a complex game like football, statistics are generally pretty meaningless; the long-standing "but we won the passing" joke shows that. As you say, you can see with your own eyes if a team's playing well. My eyes tell me that we don't play with any kind of organised attacking system, that our transitional play is awful, that we don't get enough players into the box or even into the opposition's half most of the time, that we struggle to keep the ball along the ground, that we often have massive gaps between the defence/midfield/attack, and so on and so forth... These are things that statistics don't really cover, but that are plain to see just by watching us play over the course of a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I could agree with the calls for a longer chance and consistently a lot better if we hadn't got consistently worse as a footballing side while improving the quality of our squad. It is practically football murder every week. He sucks the life out of our skillful players rather than helping them meet and exceed their potential. He is clearly ruining the investment the club has made and he is alienating supporters that find the club at the same time. I like the bloke but he has had his chance it's been two years and he hasn't got the team to gel as an attacking unit, combine with the above he shows absolutely no signs he will do anything to improve the situation. I don't agree with sacking managers if they deserve a chance Pardew has simply had his and made things worse.With the amount of quality managers out there this summer it would be an absolute disaster if we didn't upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Can't keep up with this thread, but defending our performances this season using statistics is mental. The key statistics are the ones sprawled across the league table which show categorically that we've been complete and utter guff, and even they don't tell the full story. We've produced nothing more than negative, disorganised shit all season long aside from a few select games. You definitely need to post more Andy. As long as we're not including the Games Forum in that. Obviously. I'm eagerly waiting for FIFA 14 and Red Dead 2 to be released so I can make my return... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Slowly we become the thing we hate the most. Hello Leazes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Can't keep up with this thread, but defending our performances this season using statistics is mental. The key statistics are the ones sprawled across the league table which show categorically that we've been complete and utter guff, and even they don't tell the full story. We've produced nothing more than negative, disorganised s*** all season long aside from a few select games. I find it incredible that stats are being used to prove something when people’s eyes are telling them something else. We’ve been garbage for most of this season and that wouldn’t change if somebody found a stat to say that we were the best, we weren't, we've been shite no matter how it gets dressed up. Exactly, but some people could find a sugar strand in a shit and argue that the whole thing tasted nice if it suited them. When it comes to a complex game like football, statistics are generally pretty meaningless; the long-standing "but we won the passing" joke shows that. As you say, you can see with your own eyes if a team's playing well. My eyes tell me that we don't play with any kind of organised attacking system, that our transitional play is awful, that we don't get enough players into the box or even into the opposition's half most of the time, that we struggle to keep the ball along the ground, that we often have massive gaps between the defence/midfield/attack, and so on and so forth... These are things that statistics don't really cover, but that are plain to see just by watching us play over the course of a season. Indeed, I posted all of that a few pages back but Happy Face ignored it and posted some stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Unless we're in really serious danger of going down then the managerial change should be made out of season. I've always believed that. Pardew has survived by the skin of his teeth this time around. So if they're going with him for next year then we need to back him as best we can. If he's as bad as many fear then he'll be out by Christmas anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Our choices of replacement go down dramatically during the season as well. Much easier to get a higher quality manager in during the off season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Unless we're in really serious danger of going down then the managerial change should be made out of season. I've always believed that. Pardew has survived by the skin of his teeth this time around. So if they're going with him for next year then we need to back him as best we can. If he's as bad as many fear then he'll be out by Christmas anyway. My biggest worry about him starting next season is not that he won't get sacked. It will be that there won't be any decent options to replace him mid-season and we'll be throwing away another season which will have a knock on effect regarding player departures. Football is more dog-eat-dog than ever before and if you stand still or go backwards you're rife to being cherry picked by the bigger clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Unless we're in really serious danger of going down then the managerial change should be made out of season. I've always believed that. Pardew has survived by the skin of his teeth this time around. So if they're going with him for next year then we need to back him as best we can. If he's as bad as many fear then he'll be out by Christmas anyway. My biggest worry about him starting next season is not that he won't get sacked. It will be that there won't be any decent options to replace him mid-season and we'll be throwing away another season which will have a knock on effect regarding player departures. Football is more dog-eat-dog than ever before and if you stand still or go backwards you're rife to being cherry picked by the bigger clubs. Agree. This season doesn't have to set us back massively if we do the right thing now, next season could very well set us back years. Even if things go better than I could possibly imagine I just don't see Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Cisse etc staying around for another season of keeping it tight and aiming for 10th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Sticking my head out but i think he will get the sack before the season starts. Based on nothing but sheer believe that Ashley and Dekka cannot be complete imbeciles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 meeting between Ashley and pardew with carr present? hope to f*** carr gives Ashley an earful about the way his recruits have been used. he needs to ask pards in front of Ashley what his tactics/formation are going to be for next season so he can scout appropriately for once. Carr doesn't watch the games Doesn't he? That's incredible if true. He's a scout. Why would he scout our own players? eh? Surely he should be watching our matches, or replays of them if he's away on matchdays to see how the players he's been scouting are faring? He's in the best position to tell if say Sissoko is playing the way he played for Toulouse when Carr decided to recommend him? Not out of this world to think he should be keeping track with players' performances to improve his own? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Sticking my head out but i think he will get the sack before the season starts. Based on nothing but sheer believe that Ashley and Dekka cannot be complete imbeciles. He's not employed on sporting merits. I doubt he's going to get sacked because of them unles Mike's investment is under threat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest H09 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Sticking my head out but i think he will get the sack before the season starts. Based on nothing but sheer believe that Ashley and Dekka cannot be complete imbeciles. Aye, nothing in the past suggests they are imbeciles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Sticking my head out but i think he will get the sack before the season starts. Based on nothing but sheer believe that Ashley and Dekka cannot be complete imbeciles. Aye, nothing in the past suggests they are imbeciles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I think this topic has gotten away from the real issues. The football, regardless of OPTA stats, or any others for that matter has been abysmal. There's no excuse for that, even when he's had a close to full squad our defending has been last ditch and desperate, our attacking has been incoherent, static and lacking end product. You can blame the players, however, ultimately it's the manager who's responsible for getting the best out of his players. At the end of the day, every manager comes across difficulties during a season, some a little more than others, but it's how a manager copes and adapts to adversity that really shows his mettle. Ultimately over a 38 game season luck, injuries and other mitigating circumstances level out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I will be totally gutted if he is still in place come August. If he is we should really sell Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa etc and go for Caroll and another big lad and sign a couple of fast direct wingers. No point having cultured players with this oaf in place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I think this topic has gotten away from the real issues. The football, regardless of OPTA stats, or any others for that matter has been abysmal. There's no excuse for that, even when he's had a close to full squad our defending has been last ditch and desperate, our attacking has been incoherent, static and lacking end product. You can blame the players, however, ultimately it's the manager who's responsible for getting the best out of his players. At the end of the day, every manager comes across difficulties during a season, some a little more than others, but it's how a manager copes and adapts to adversity that really shows his mettle. Ultimately over a 38 game season luck, injuries and other mitigating circumstances level out. Don't necessarily agree with your last sentence, but he rest is spot on. Saying that, it doesn't necessarily follow that the manager should be sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Unless we're in really serious danger of going down then the managerial change should be made out of season. I've always believed that. Pardew has survived by the skin of his teeth this time around. So if they're going with him for next year then we need to back him as best we can. If he's as bad as many fear then he'll be out by Christmas anyway. My biggest worry about him starting next season is not that he won't get sacked. It will be that there won't be any decent options to replace him mid-season and we'll be throwing away another season which will have a knock on effect regarding player departures. Football is more dog-eat-dog than ever before and if you stand still or go backwards you're rife to being cherry picked by the bigger clubs. This will happen if he stays. I've no doubt about it. He needed help from the owners last summer, yes, but he is a phenomenally poor manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 meeting between Ashley and pardew with carr present? hope to f*** carr gives Ashley an earful about the way his recruits have been used. he needs to ask pards in front of Ashley what his tactics/formation are going to be for next season so he can scout appropriately for once. Carr doesn't watch the games Doesn't he? That's incredible if true. He's a scout. Why would he scout our own players? eh? Surely he should be watching our matches, or replays of them if he's away on matchdays to see how the players he's been scouting are faring? He's in the best position to tell if say Sissoko is playing the way he played for Toulouse when Carr decided to recommend him? Not out of this world to think he should be keeping track with players' performances to improve his own? He does watch our games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I think this topic has gotten away from the real issues. The football, regardless of OPTA stats, or any others for that matter has been abysmal. There's no excuse for that, even when he's had a close to full squad our defending has been last ditch and desperate, our attacking has been incoherent, static and lacking end product. You can blame the players, however, ultimately it's the manager who's responsible for getting the best out of his players. At the end of the day, every manager comes across difficulties during a season, some a little more than others, but it's how a manager copes and adapts to adversity that really shows his mettle. Ultimately over a 38 game season luck, injuries and other mitigating circumstances level out. Don't necessarily agree with your last sentence, but he rest is spot on. Saying that, it doesn't necessarily follow that the manager should be sacked. It doesn't, however I'm struggling to see how or why he would change, I don't think he can or will change. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect you for sticking to it! I wish I had your optimism because I think I'm going to need it, it looks like he's not going anywhere any time soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Just seen the 'I don't care what anyone says' achievement quotes. Just shut up you fucking bamp; if you have stay at least learn some humility after a season of complete and utter disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Cheers. I think that will also be the opinion of those in charge. Personally I think things will get better, but almost by default rather than because he's particularly good. Things can't possibly be this bad next season if he's backed properly. I'd like to see us bring in players that he can use, rather than ones that simply look like a good deal financially.Carr is lauded for the deals he finds but if we're not going to employ a manager capable of getting the best out of these players, why bother? Btw I think there's a false notion going around that if you don't rate the manager, you must be a fan of the owner. I don't think that's true at all. I think there are three key player questions that first have to be answered: 1) is Colo gone and who will replace him? 2) can HBA stay healthy? 3) Which Tiote is the real Tiote? Colo is important because he is the foundation of the defense. The other two are important because, IMO, both, if they play at a high level will dictate the formation that you will use. And the formation that is used will say a lot about how all the other players are used, if they can used and, if not, who can be brought in to replace them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Arsenal score from a corner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I've never seen Arsenal pumping it into the box from a free kick in their own half like. Arsenal goal from a corner. "Woeful" says Happy Face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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