quayside Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Ashley is pretty much in the same boat as the fans who say he deserves another chance, because of finishing 5th it's fair to assume Ashley may think another chance is warranted. If he does start poorly, then that's when Ashley might pull the trigger. Ashley is a very strange owner. He's sacked (or constructively sacked) managers when things were going well because he didn't get along with them. Seems like he'd prefer to have a struggling manager who will work within his restrictions compliantly than a successful manager who may actually make him buck up his ideas given he's not a football man and only understands finances. Agree with you that he's hard to read but he sacked Allardyce when things were not going well. KK walked because he didn't like the way the club does/did player transactions, he won his case for constructive dismissal but no way was he sacked. Kinnear (who was the only manager Ashley could get at the time) retired through ill health. Shearer was not offered a contract beyond the end of the relegation season so things weren't going well and he wasn't sacked. Hughton was certainly sacked, how well we were doing at the time is open to debate. And that's it really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Ashley is pretty much in the same boat as the fans who say he deserves another chance, because of finishing 5th it's fair to assume Ashley may think another chance is warranted. If he does start poorly, then that's when Ashley might pull the trigger. Got to say you've really gone flaccid on this in recent days Looks like Bimps is gonna have to thumb in a softie over this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Ashley is pretty much in the same boat as the fans who say he deserves another chance, because of finishing 5th it's fair to assume Ashley may think another chance is warranted. If he does start poorly, then that's when Ashley might pull the trigger. Ashley is a very strange owner. He's sacked (or constructively sacked) managers when things were going well because he didn't get along with them. Seems like he'd prefer to have a struggling manager who will work within his restrictions compliantly than a successful manager who may actually make him buck up his ideas given he's not a football man and only understands finances. Have you had an epiphany in the last 10 minutes? You've gone from questioning the wording in that quote to perfectly understanding the root cause of why we are where we are within minutes.. I just want Pardew sacked . Honestly I have always understood the root cause but had a hope that Ashley would finally learn from his lessons (as we're stuck with him). I doubt any of the other 19 owners/chairmen would let him keep his job in similar circumstances. Just don't know why we have to be stuck with the stupid owner who knows nothing about football. Fair enough, just seems odd because to my mind expecting Ashley to sack Pardew at this moment in time and knowing how ignorant he is about football, and how stubborn he is about his approach to things in general are completely at odds with each other.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Pardew is mint Pardew is areet Pardew is shit Right there's all the bases covered, feel free to quote me in a few hundred pages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Mainly the first bit but if you're willing to jack it in, just jack it in. It's not a slight on you, you're one of the better ones, but the woe is me on here is doing my tits in. As I have said I don't like Pardew (the mandatory disclaimer) but if you can't look forward to a new season regardless then I struggle to resonate with your thoughts. Plus, no doubt, you've watched s*** from SBR onwards why would it be now you suddenly can't take it anymore? Supporting Newcastle is like an illness, when you first get it you have a greater resistance to it. The longer it goes on the harder it is to just brush it off. If the clown is still managing us we’ve got to hope that playing in Europe was as bad as he claimed because we’ve got nothing else to look to for a change in fortune. We've also got to hope that we go out of the domestic cups early because we don't want too many games. We’ll also have to hope that we get a decent start because if we have a tough start and a few defeats then we’re in the shit early on because our manager isn’t going to lift the players, just like he couldn’t do it this season. The straws we’ve got to clutch at look fairly thin on the ground at this time. At least Man U, Everton and Chelsea are going to struggle because they don't have stability, I guess that’s another straw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Agree with you that he's hard to read but he sacked Allardyce when things were not going well. KK walked because he didn't like the way the club does/did player transactions, he won his case for constructive dismissal but no way was he sacked. Kinnear (who was the only manager Ashley could get at the time) retired through ill health. Shearer was not offered a contract beyond the end of the relegation season so things weren't going well and he wasn't sacked. Hughton was certainly sacked, how well we were doing at the time is open to debate. And that's it really. Ashley didn't sack Allardyce, he agreed to it and that's a big difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Ashley is pretty much in the same boat as the fans who say he deserves another chance, because of finishing 5th it's fair to assume Ashley may think another chance is warranted. If he does start poorly, then that's when Ashley might pull the trigger. Ashley is a very strange owner. He's sacked (or constructively sacked) managers when things were going well because he didn't get along with them. Seems like he'd prefer to have a struggling manager who will work within his restrictions compliantly than a successful manager who may actually make him buck up his ideas given he's not a football man and only understands finances. Have you had an epiphany in the last 10 minutes? You've gone from questioning the wording in that quote to perfectly understanding the root cause of why we are where we are within minutes.. I just want Pardew sacked . Honestly I have always understood the root cause but had a hope that Ashley would finally learn from his lessons (as we're stuck with him). I doubt any of the other 19 owners/chairmen would let him keep his job in similar circumstances. Just don't know why we have to be stuck with the stupid owner who knows nothing about football. Fair enough, just seems odd because to my mind expecting Ashley to sack Pardew at this moment in time and knowing how ignorant he is about football, and how stubborn he is about his approach to things in general are completely at odds with each other.. Since we're stuck with him the hope is always that he'll learn (or have a desire to learn) from his mistakes (he did show a slight glimmer or promise with the January transfer activity). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Attitudes now have to change imo if that is confirmation he's staying, which I fully expect it to be. Unfortunate? Yes, in my opinion. The end of optimism and support? No, and it would he stupid if to think Yes. Next year is now set in terms of manager, our next step is transfers in and out, and how to approach next season. A coaching overhaul is definitely needed, we need coaches that can help dictate our play based on performances and perceived ability during the week of training, which so far has blatantly not been the case this year. Abandoning optimism now will only take us backwards. That's a given. Remain optimistic and we could still do well, a 5th place finish or a 17th place finish doesnt change that. We start again. He has seen us playing well and had some kind of hand in that before, that's something to build on for him so I hope he f***ing does it. He can learn from his players. He needs help though and for that we need a stronger set up during the week. Better drilled, more professional, more pro active and mindful of feedback and open to change. We have a lot of changes to make, but if a change of manager isn't going to be one of them then we need to accept that but keep the pressure on elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Mainly the first bit but if you're willing to jack it in, just jack it in. It's not a slight on you, you're one of the better ones, but the woe is me on here is doing my tits in. As I have said I don't like Pardew (the mandatory disclaimer) but if you can't look forward to a new season regardless then I struggle to resonate with your thoughts. Plus, no doubt, you've watched s*** from SBR onwards why would it be now you suddenly can't take it anymore? Supporting Newcastle is like an illness, when you first get it you have a greater resistance to it. The longer it goes on the harder it is to just brush it off. If the clown is still managing us we’ve got to hope that playing in Europe was as bad as he claimed because we’ve got nothing else to look to for a change in fortune. We've also got to hope that we go out of the domestic cups early because we don't want too many games. We’ll also have to hope that we get a decent start because if we have a tough start and a few defeats then we’re in the s*** early on because our manager isn’t going to lift the players, just like he couldn’t do it this season. The straws we’ve got to clutch at look fairly thin on the ground at this time. At least Man U, Everton and Chelsea are going to struggle because they don't have stability, I guess that’s another straw. Know what you mean but I tend to think of it as a life sentence. I'm really only a fan because my parents were living in Tynemouth when I was born and my father brought me up following the club. He used to go and watch the mackems when we were away and they were home - in those days quite a few did just to get out of the house. But NUFC was the club he supported. What a f*cking legacy he has left me Anyway I get through the bad times by thinking of the even worse times and we have had plenty worse than this in my lifetime. Mind you my glass is always half full...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I honestly don't see what he has to lose by adopting a more attacking philosophy next season, for starters, how can we do any worse? As daft as it sounds, some basic progress on that front and a move away from what I consider a Stoke-esque approach (the goalkeeper taking all free-kicks in our half, the eleven men back on corners, etc.) would definitely claw back some feeling amongst the support, I'd assume at least. Obviously some are far, far gone at this point. Sunday might bring it back up in me depending on how it goes, but my antipathy towards him has already mellowed a fair bit since we secured safety. If he cannot get the team to go hell-for-leather in the final game of the season against a tasty outfit where all the pressure is on them then I'm not sure he can at all, he's almost got a full-strength squad to choose from at the minute too. Basically, I tend to follow Disco Des' philosophy on things at the minute. If he's not going we may as well hope for a good summer in the transfer market and a renewed approach next season. I think the worst feeling as a football fan is apathy towards your own team, and thankfully I'm not quite there yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Ashley is pretty much in the same boat as the fans who say he deserves another chance, because of finishing 5th it's fair to assume Ashley may think another chance is warranted. If he does start poorly, then that's when Ashley might pull the trigger. Ashley is a very strange owner. He's sacked (or constructively sacked) managers when things were going well because he didn't get along with them. Seems like he'd prefer to have a struggling manager who will work within his restrictions compliantly than a successful manager who may actually make him buck up his ideas given he's not a football man and only understands finances. Have you had an epiphany in the last 10 minutes? You've gone from questioning the wording in that quote to perfectly understanding the root cause of why we are where we are within minutes.. I just want Pardew sacked . Honestly I have always understood the root cause but had a hope that Ashley would finally learn from his lessons (as we're stuck with him). I doubt any of the other 19 owners/chairmen would let him keep his job in similar circumstances. Just don't know why we have to be stuck with the stupid owner who knows nothing about football. Fair enough, just seems odd because to my mind expecting Ashley to sack Pardew at this moment in time and knowing how ignorant he is about football, and how stubborn he is about his approach to things in general are completely at odds with each other.. Since we're stuck with him the hope is always that he'll learn (or have a desire to learn) from his mistakes (he did show a slight glimmer or promise with the January transfer activity). That's basically how I've felt about Pardew lately as I have never considered the possibility of Ashley sacking him or him walking out of the job a realistic prospect. Sad really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Agree with you that he's hard to read but he sacked Allardyce when things were not going well. KK walked because he didn't like the way the club does/did player transactions, he won his case for constructive dismissal but no way was he sacked. Kinnear (who was the only manager Ashley could get at the time) retired through ill health. Shearer was not offered a contract beyond the end of the relegation season so things weren't going well and he wasn't sacked. Hughton was certainly sacked, how well we were doing at the time is open to debate. And that's it really. Ashley didn't sack Allardyce, he agreed to it and that's a big difference. Can you explain that? I had thought Allardyce said Ashley told him "you aren't my man" when he sacked him. You saying Mort made the decision? If so not sure there's a big difference tbh. He wouldn't have done it without consulting Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Know what you mean but I tend to think of it as a life sentence. I'm really only a fan because my parents were living in Tynemouth when I was born and my father brought me up following the club. He used to go and watch the mackems when we were away and they were home - in those days quite a few did just to get out of the house. But NUFC was the club he supported. What a f*cking legacy he has left me Anyway I get through the bad times by thinking of the even worse times and we have had plenty worse than this in my lifetime. Mind you my glass is always half full...... The legacy is that you don't support sunderland, that's a positive that you can carry right through your life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Ashley is pretty much in the same boat as the fans who say he deserves another chance, because of finishing 5th it's fair to assume Ashley may think another chance is warranted. If he does start poorly, then that's when Ashley might pull the trigger. Ashley is a very strange owner. He's sacked (or constructively sacked) managers when things were going well because he didn't get along with them. Seems like he'd prefer to have a struggling manager who will work within his restrictions compliantly than a successful manager who may actually make him buck up his ideas given he's not a football man and only understands finances. Have you had an epiphany in the last 10 minutes? You've gone from questioning the wording in that quote to perfectly understanding the root cause of why we are where we are within minutes.. I just want Pardew sacked . Honestly I have always understood the root cause but had a hope that Ashley would finally learn from his lessons (as we're stuck with him). I doubt any of the other 19 owners/chairmen would let him keep his job in similar circumstances. Just don't know why we have to be stuck with the stupid owner who knows nothing about football. Fair enough, just seems odd because to my mind expecting Ashley to sack Pardew at this moment in time and knowing how ignorant he is about football, and how stubborn he is about his approach to things in general are completely at odds with each other.. Since we're stuck with him the hope is always that he'll learn (or have a desire to learn) from his mistakes (he did show a slight glimmer or promise with the January transfer activity). That's basically how I've felt about Pardew lately as I have never considered the possibility of Ashley sacking him or him walking out of the job a realistic prospect. Sad really. I just have no optimism for the new season. I don't think he will back Pardew with the kind of players he wants (that would cost somewhere around £50-60m) and I think we'll again see the same old long ball tactics with players who aren't suited for it. It's basically a pointless cycle. Pardew has already said 'players don't have to have Premiership experience' and 'We'll have to wait until July' for transfers. Already starting the ball rolling for the disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Can you explain that? I had thought Allardyce said Ashley told him "you aren't my man" when he sacked him. You saying Mort made the decision? If so not sure there's a big difference tbh. He wouldn't have done it without consulting Ashley. Mort did make the decision and I don't think sacking Pardew will come from llambias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Know what you mean but I tend to think of it as a life sentence. I'm really only a fan because my parents were living in Tynemouth when I was born and my father brought me up following the club. He used to go and watch the mackems when we were away and they were home - in those days quite a few did just to get out of the house. But NUFC was the club he supported. What a f*cking legacy he has left me Anyway I get through the bad times by thinking of the even worse times and we have had plenty worse than this in my lifetime. Mind you my glass is always half full...... The legacy is that you don't support sunderland, that's a positive that you can carry right through your life. True enough! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Can you explain that? I had thought Allardyce said Ashley told him "you aren't my man" when he sacked him. You saying Mort made the decision? If so not sure there's a big difference tbh. He wouldn't have done it without consulting Ashley. Mort did make the decision and I don't think sacking Pardew will come from llambias. But Mort was Ashley's man in charge so it has to count as an Ashley sacking as he had the ultimate say. I think you are saying that Ashley is more involved now than he was in 2008 and would probably make the call himself if it came to it and you are probably right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Been looking over old posts in previous Pardew threads. Anyone remember the "why won't Pardew play Ben Arfa on the wing(at all) ahead of Obertan" debate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Been looking over old posts in previous Pardew threads. Anyone remember the "why won't Pardew play Ben Arfa on the wing(at all) ahead of Obertan" debate? Tactical mastermind. Or so we're told. Handled it well. Or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Brank and Rich Pretty much sums up my opinions to a tee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Been looking over old posts in previous Pardew threads. Anyone remember the "why won't Pardew play Ben Arfa on the wing(at all) ahead of Obertan" debate? Tactical mastermind. Or so we're told. Pards played a blinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Pardew is mint Pardew is areet Pardew is shit Right there's all the bases covered, feel free to quote me in a few hundred pages. Will you both fuck off with this shit, it's hugely annoying and not at all funny or informative or constructive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 This latest piece of "news" is very much unwelcome. The way I see it is that Pardew will never change his ways and that in turn is not going to do us any favours in the long term. His comments last week just demonstrates that he has no ambition and we're never going to progress if he is still in charge. I can't help but feel pessimistic about our chances. This season has broke me and to see the person who has done that to me to be potentially be offered another season in charge does not fill me with any hope whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Pardew is mint Pardew is areet Pardew is shit Right there's all the bases covered, feel free to quote me in a few hundred pages. Will you both fuck off with this shit, it's hugely annoying and not at all funny or informative or constructive. I'm indifferent to whether the two of you continue with this shit, it's not really bothering me, I guess it's vaguely amusing and I'm learning a bit. Oh lord, please continue with this. It's brightened the forum up no end, literally laugh a minute stuff and oh man, the knowledge! That should be all the bases covered, feel free to quote me when we've figured out where we stand. FYP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 My eyes, they bleed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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