Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 The thing with Moyes is that he was at Everton a very long time and although he did well by their standards, he didn't achieve anything remarkable or remotely special. Yes he finished 4th once but if he truly did have something special about him he would have qualified for the CL proper and not lose the qualifier. He doesn't even have a cup to show for his time either. His side's always started slowly too which suggest his methods and ideology requires time and total commitment, even for lesser players. Then there is his football philosophy which is all about hard work, defensive strategy and winning percentages. Everton rarely played fluid attacking football which a club hoping to win the top prizes in football, both domestic and internationally, will have to be capable of doing more often than not. Can he build a team to play fluid attacking football? Can he manage top top players? Can he sign top top players and develop promising players into top top players? Can he handle pressure? Can he change his ideas and develop new ones? Man Utd do require continuity and stability and someone kind of cut from the same cloth as Fergie type manager, but Moyes? The likes of Mourinho and Pardiola are career managers, not club managers so although they would bring success, it would be of the short-term nature rather than the long-term. For me, Rafa Benitez would have been ideal for them. He wouldn't have brought the circus with him that Mourinho brings nor the project nature someone like Pardiola brings. I can only think Fergie sees Moyes as a kind of younger version of himself and that's why he was given the task of replacing him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Easy to say in hindsight but if I were united I would have gone and thrown lots of money at Klopp I honestly don't know how we would do in that type of environment. I think this he is absolutely brilliant but him and Dortmund are a perfect fit for each other and he reminds me a hell of a lot of Keegan with his footballing beliefs in general and I really don't know if he could replicate it elsewhere if that makes sense? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Easy to say in hindsight but if I were united I would have gone and thrown lots of money at Klopp Klopp is building his own dynasty in BVB. Has taken them from mid-table strugglers to twice champions and CL finalists. They just announced record revenue for last year and Klopp basically runs the club tom to bottom (Same way SAF did for United). Why would he leave that now and take such a high pressure job and abandon his massive project mid-way. Makes no sense for him. Moyes is the wrong manager for United. During his 10 glorious years at Everton, there were plenty of signs that he'd struggle to adapt to a bigger role at a bigger club with more ambition and expectations. He is too cautious and conservative and bottles big decisions at big games. The fact that Everton won around 5 Merseyside derbies out of 30 under his management...or zero wins at Anfield/Emirates/OT/Bridge in 50 games in charge is no an accident. Last season, Fergie went to Anfield/Bridge/Etihad thinking "Fuck you cunts, We'll beat you" and got 9 points from those fixtures. Do you really see Moyes going there with similar mindset? He just lacks that spark and ambition and balls to be a top class manager...the same way Roy did. I hope he stays on though. The likes of RVP,Rooney,Vidic,Ferdinand,Evra,Carrick are all around 30 and need replacing or replacement-grooming in the next couple of years, and I much rather Moyes went around buying his type of players to replace those players than a top class manager. In my life (22 years), I've seen nothing but Manc domination and it's a great feeling that they don't feel so secure and assured anymore. Call it bitter/smalltime/etc...whatever it is, I'm enjoying the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Easy to say in hindsight but if I were united I would have gone and thrown lots of money at Klopp I honestly don't know how we would do in that type of environment. I think this he is absolutely brilliant but him and Dortmund are a perfect fit for each other and he reminds me a hell of a lot of Keegan with his footballing beliefs in general and I really don't know if he could replicate it elsewhere if that makes sense? I kind of agree. Although I think he can replicate it wherever he goes but juts not at somewhere like a Man Utd. He'd be the perfect fit for someone like, oh, I don't know, that Geordie team, err, Newcastle or whatever they are called... One can only dream... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Well personally speaking if I was a United fan is rather give time to a Klopp than Moyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Well personally speaking if I was a United fan is rather give time to a Klopp than Moyes. As a United fan I would take any of them over Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes will be fine in the long run given time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes will be fine in the long run given time. thing is its unlikely he'll be given time, if the CL position is in doubt then he'll be sacked, Glazers won't want to lose that cash cow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes will be fine in the long run given time. How do you define "fine" though ? Be a solid top 4 team with the occasional title challenge (AKA Arsenal of last 8 years) ?? End up top 4 and win 2 titles let's say in the next 5 years ? Win a domestic trophy this season or go to last 8 of CL? All depends what "fine" means for Moyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes is the wrong manager for United. During his 10 glorious years at Everton, there were plenty of signs that he'd struggle to adapt to a bigger role at a bigger club with more ambition and expectations. He is too cautious and conservative and bottles big decisions at big games. The fact that Everton won around 5 Merseyside derbies out of 30 under his management...or zero wins at Anfield/Emirates/OT/Bridge in 50 games in charge is no an accident. Yup. He consistently tries to edge out teams in big games rather than just going for it and seeing what happened. Not one single away win in those games. It's beyond laughable and it's all down to the way he set us up. Try to nick a goal, keep it tight and so on. What he's doing at Man Utd will not change my mind about what he did at Everton. He stabilised us and got us moving in the right direction on a tiny budget. It can't be underestimated how well he did in that respect. He also got us playing progressively better football year on year. He just doesn't have that natural winning mentality, IMO. Now, mix that with a club who are used to winning week in, week out, year in, year out and supporters who have to come to expect that - many of whom won't even know what it's like for Man Utd not to be winning all the time - and you have a recipe for disaster. I think they'll improve as the season goes on and finish 3rd. Can't see them getting that far in Europe, so I guess FA/League Cup is their best bet. I doubt that will appease the fans, rightly or wrongly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 How you finding Martinez so far Neil? Upgrade? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes will certainly get time and lots of it. SAF is a huge influence there and he's his man. I think he'll get at least 3 seasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Man Utd used to turn there season around and really push on at christmas, if things keep going like this they could be out of everything come christmas and Moyes will develop his very own whisky nose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 He's aged about 10 years so far this season, he'll be dead by Christmas at this rate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 He's aged about 10 years so far this season, he'll be dead by Christmas at this rate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 How you finding Martinez so far Neil? Upgrade? Early signs are promising. Even in the back-to-back 0-0s, I saw positive signs. We just lacked someone to convert domination into goals, but we have that someone now - at least for the short-term. We still have a way to go to fully develop into Martinez's side, and it does take time. Pleased so far though, and I've enjoyed watching us play more than any year I can remember for a long time. I definitely think when properly on song, we'll give a few teams a hiding this year. Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised to see us concede plenty more goals this year. I guess that's the price you pay, and it's a price which I think is entirely worth paying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 What do you make of McCarthy? Since his choice was seemingly us or you lot? I've only seen Everton once this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 The definition of 'meh' so far, IMO. Seen a few signs of him being a really handy player to have - someone to drive forward from midfield - but also seen some clumsy moments. See how he does the next couple of months, then I'll decide whether he's Bobby Charlton v2.0 or worse than Alex Nyarko. What is for sure is we'll need him to play well. Gibson's now crocked, Barry is still Barry despite being a little better than what I thought, and Osman's been miles from his best so far this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Man Utd do require continuity and stability and someone kind of cut from the same cloth as Fergie type manager, but Moyes? The likes of Mourinho and Pardiola are career managers, not club managers so although they would bring success, it would be of the short-term nature rather than the long-term. For me, Rafa Benitez would have been ideal for them. He wouldn't have brought the circus with him that Mourinho brings nor the project nature someone like Pardiola brings. You alright? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Can he build a team to play fluid attacking football? Can he manage top top players? Can he sign top top players and develop promising players into top top players? Can he handle pressure? Can he change his ideas and develop new ones? :angry: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 For me, Rafa Benitez would have been ideal for them. He wouldn't have brought the circus with him that Mourinho brings Seriously? that would have been an immense circus Not because of Rafa himself but because he's a well liked ex-Liverpool manager ( at least by the Liverpool fans) there would be an insane about controversy surrounding that appointment if it ever took place. From Liverpool and Man Utd fans respectively. I would laugh my arse off if it ever happened though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes needs big backing in January to stamp his own mark on the team, which he should be allowed to. Though the farce of their transfer window would suggest they were struggling to find the right players. He'll be given at least the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Moyes needs big backing in January to stamp his own mark on the team, which he should be allowed to. Though the farce of their transfer window would suggest they were struggling to find the right players. He'll be given at least the season. I agree with that he should be allowed to build his own side, but it's not like they spent nothing in the summer. He spunked nearly £30m on 'familiarity'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Two things. Man United will not finish top 6 this year. Come the end of the season, people will realize that Man United would have been better off bringing in Martinez than Moyes. Cruel irony that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Moyes needs big backing in January to stamp his own mark on the team, which he should be allowed to. Though the farce of their transfer window would suggest they were struggling to find the right players. He'll be given at least the season. I agree with that he should be allowed to build his own side, but it's not like they spent nothing in the summer. He spunked nearly £30m on 'familiarity'. That was a last minute panic buy imo, by all accounts man utd's troubles in the transfer market we due to their new chief executive who didn't have a clue in his job. Still laugh at them spending that amount on Fellaini. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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