Foluwashola Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We have a collection of better players than we're showing, just too many weaknesses to make a good team. Pretty much. Our squad probably shouldn't go down but it's not much better than relegation fodder. Central midfield and defence are disgusting boulders hanging around our necks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We have a collection of better players than we're showing, just too many weaknesses to make a good team. I would also add that tactically what we do have is not being used correctly too. In short, it's a complete failure in understanding how professional football works from the top down, which is affecting our transfer strategy, management recruitment approach, squad mentality, etc. You don't need 11 top class players to be in the top half of the table. What you do need is an understanding ofhow to build a good team in terms of players' strengths and weaknesses and of how to prepare tactically and mentally to make it play at its potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I get confused where some of fans think we are or should be in the league. You're as only as good as the squad you have, right now we are relegation candidates based on current squad. It could quickly turn in to a mid-table Everton side, but it would take some real quality signings to get to a top 8 challenging team. For a while I thought our issues was more coaching and tactical, but the more I watch these lads fail to do it, I start to realise that we don't have a spine of winners with enough quality for that. A lot of our players have potential to grow in a decent side, but they won't in our current team. So Shelvey, I get why a top 6 side wouldn't look at him, but for anything below that he's decent. He has attacking drive, strong, tall, plays a range of passing and scores goals. Has a good engine on him. I'd love him here based on where we are right now. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't, unless they really can't see him improving us. I don't think he has attacking drive or a good engine on him. He averages 5-6 goals a season playing in teams far better than ours which for an attacking midfielder isn't anything special. I do like certain aspects of his game but just fear he is already in a team better suited to him (possession based as opposed to occasional quick attacking thrusts) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I get confused where some of fans think we are or should be in the league. You're as only as good as the squad you have, right now we are relegation candidates based on current squad. It could quickly turn in to a mid-table Everton side, but it would take some real quality signings to get to a top 8 challenging team. For a while I thought our issues was more coaching and tactical, but the more I watch these lads fail to do it, I start to realise that we don't have a spine of winners with enough quality for that. A lot of our players have potential to grow in a decent side, but they won't in our current team. So Shelvey, I get why a top 6 side wouldn't look at him, but for anything below that he's decent. He has attacking drive, strong, tall, plays a range of passing and scores goals. Has a good engine on him. I'd love him here based on where we are right now. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't, unless they really can't see him improving us. Our squad has certainly shown that it's better than the league position, it clearly is, however I don't think we are top 8 material without a number of signings. The squad we have got are better than the position that we are in, it's just a case of getting them to show up. It's not better than the position shows, our form the a whole 12 months has been rotten. Aye half of that was with Carver in charge though. Here's a quick look at our form in the last 12 months under Carver and McClaren: First half under Carver - 9 points Second half under Carver - 4 points First half under McClaren - 6 points Second half under McClaren - 11 points EDIT: Finally got it right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I get confused where some of fans think we are or should be in the league. You're as only as good as the squad you have, right now we are relegation candidates based on current squad. It could quickly turn in to a mid-table Everton side, but it would take some real quality signings to get to a top 8 challenging team. For a while I thought our issues was more coaching and tactical, but the more I watch these lads fail to do it, I start to realise that we don't have a spine of winners with enough quality for that. A lot of our players have potential to grow in a decent side, but they won't in our current team. So Shelvey, I get why a top 6 side wouldn't look at him, but for anything below that he's decent. He has attacking drive, strong, tall, plays a range of passing and scores goals. Has a good engine on him. I'd love him here based on where we are right now. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't, unless they really can't see him improving us. I don't think he has attacking drive or a good engine on him. He averages 5-6 goals a season playing in teams far better than ours which for an attacking midfielder isn't anything special. I do like certain aspects of his game but just fear he is already in a team better suited to him (possession based as opposed to occasional quick attacking thrusts) Not sure why we see things so differently regarding attacking drive and engine, every time I've watched him he's got the ball and moved it forward. Focal point for driving things onwards. He's mobile and chases things down all game. To say he doesn't have attacking drive or a good engine seems odd to me. He's hardly a huffing and puffing shy player who passes sidewards all game. 5-6 goals per season is fine, he may get more in a different system that takes more chances than sitting on the ball for lengthy spells. I see the purpose of signing him as giving us a reason to change style. We play as we do because we can't control the game from the centre at all, putting Shelvey in there gives us a chance of having someone hold on to it and use it well. Also gives more life to however sits beside him. Do you think he'd come here and be useless and not improve us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I get confused where some of fans think we are or should be in the league. You're as only as good as the squad you have, right now we are relegation candidates based on current squad. It could quickly turn in to a mid-table Everton side, but it would take some real quality signings to get to a top 8 challenging team. For a while I thought our issues was more coaching and tactical, but the more I watch these lads fail to do it, I start to realise that we don't have a spine of winners with enough quality for that. A lot of our players have potential to grow in a decent side, but they won't in our current team. So Shelvey, I get why a top 6 side wouldn't look at him, but for anything below that he's decent. He has attacking drive, strong, tall, plays a range of passing and scores goals. Has a good engine on him. I'd love him here based on where we are right now. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't, unless they really can't see him improving us. I don't think he has attacking drive or a good engine on him. He averages 5-6 goals a season playing in teams far better than ours which for an attacking midfielder isn't anything special. I do like certain aspects of his game but just fear he is already in a team better suited to him (possession based as opposed to occasional quick attacking thrusts) Not sure why we see things so differently regarding attacking drive and engine, every time I've watched him he's got the ball and moved it forward. Focal point for driving things onwards. He's mobile and chases things down all game. To say he doesn't have attacking drive or a good engine seems odd to me. He's hardly a huffing and puffing shy player who passes sidewards all game. 5-6 goals per season is fine, he may get more in a different system that takes more chances than sitting on the ball for lengthy spells. I see the purpose of signing him as giving us a reason to change style. We play as we do because we can't control the game from the centre at all, putting Shelvey in there gives us a chance of having someone hold on to it and use it well. Also gives more life to however sits beside him. Do you think he'd come here and be useless and not improve us? If your meaning of attacking drive is he looks to pass forward then fair enough. Mine is someone who carries the ball quickly past players which I don't think he does as he's very one paced. As for engine yes he can last a game but I'd describe having a good engine as someone covering the whole pitch at high speed which I don't think he's ever done. He'd be a small improvement due to our sluggish forward line but for the Fee+Wages and it's true that anyone coming in January has to be costed for with an outgoing then realistically you are looking at losing Sissoko or Perez which I'd prefer we kept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 He would be an upgrade on Colback Personally I would prefer it if we looked at a controlling, more defensive midfield player who can truly protect the back four, doesn't need another DM holding his hand and is neat in possession. That way maybe we could afford to play with a winger or two every once in a while rather than worrying about the opposition all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We need two CM's like, no two ways about it. Someone who can get on the ball and dictate play and someone who can compete physically and with the pace of the league to protect the defence. That way we can start to edge away from this counter attacking, defensive bullshit and try and let the likes of Thauvin get on the ball where it's actually dangerous to the other team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 He would be an upgrade on Colback Personally I would prefer it if we looked at a controlling, more defensive midfield player who can truly protect the back four, doesn't need another DM holding his hand and is neat in possession. That way maybe we could afford to play with a winger or two every once in a while rather than worrying about the opposition all the time. I'd be an upgrade on Colback Agree Edit: Agree with the two CM point also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We need two CM's like, no two ways about it. Someone who can get on the ball and dictate play and someone who can compete physically and with the pace of the league to protect the defence. That way we can start to edge away from this counter attacking, defensive bullshit and try and let the likes of Thauvin get on the ball where it's actually dangerous to the other team. Exactly. Does my head in that we have four central midfield players out there, with the two most defensive ones sitting just a few yards in front of the defence and the other two required to protect the full back and somehow dictate play and create chances from the wing. What I wouldn't give for a Tiote - Cabaye like central midfield partnership again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Seeing your name linked to Shelvey in the press, please, please, please, come and get him... The most lack lustre, feckless, dont give a shit performance I have ever seen today, even threw to an opposing player in an attacking position from a throw in, doing his best to give the game away until he was rightfully dragged off. Please take him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Seeing your name linked to Shelvey in the press, please, please, please, come and get him... The most lack lustre, feckless, dont give a shit performance I have ever seen today, even threw to an opposing player in an attacking position from a throw in, doing his best to give the game away until he was rightfully dragged off. Please take him. He'll settle in quickly then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Seeing your name linked to Shelvey in the press, please, please, please, come and get him... The most lack lustre, feckless, dont give a s*** performance I have ever seen today, even threw to an opposing player in an attacking position from a throw in, doing his best to give the game away until he was rightfully dragged off. Please take him. Sounds like he'll fit in well here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Seems like he'd fit in well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Seeing your name linked to Shelvey in the press, please, please, please, come and get him... The most lack lustre, feckless, dont give a s*** performance I have ever seen today, even threw to an opposing player in an attacking position from a throw in, doing his best to give the game away until he was rightfully dragged off. Please take him. Because he's crap, no one here can see it because they are willing to accept anyone because of dross like Colback and rightfully so in some aspects but there is nothing special about him and you're lot will be much better off without imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 On the plus side, going to need to spend some money. That has to be painfully obvious to all now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I get confused where some of fans think we are or should be in the league. You're as only as good as the squad you have, right now we are relegation candidates based on current squad. It could quickly turn in to a mid-table Everton side, but it would take some real quality signings to get to a top 8 challenging team. For a while I thought our issues was more coaching and tactical, but the more I watch these lads fail to do it, I start to realise that we don't have a spine of winners with enough quality for that. A lot of our players have potential to grow in a decent side, but they won't in our current team. So Shelvey, I get why a top 6 side wouldn't look at him, but for anything below that he's decent. He has attacking drive, strong, tall, plays a range of passing and scores goals. Has a good engine on him. I'd love him here based on where we are right now. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't, unless they really can't see him improving us. Our squad has certainly shown that it's better than the league position, it clearly is, however I don't think we are top 8 material without a number of signings. The squad we have got are better than the position that we are in, it's just a case of getting them to show up. When? Bar 14 games or so between September - December 2014 this team has been horrible for 2 years now. 3 different managers. Not very good managers but not the absolute worst either. Squad is shit. Some quality but who doesn't have some quality in the PL now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Sounds like Shelvey is your typical MOTD player who will do something spectacular one game then disappear for the next 19. Fans who watch every game know best usually... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 On the plus side, going to need to spend some money. That has to be painfully obvious to all now. Some serious wedge needs to be spent and early in the window too. No fucking about if we're serious about staying up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Sounds like Shelvey is your typical MOTD player who will do something spectacular one game then disappear for the next 19. Fans who watch every game know best usually... There's someone on their forum who would swap him for Colback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 They'll spend but they'll still try the fucking about gamesmanship, the only thing they will think is that scraping more bargains visits same as investing and someone important will be sold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Sounds like Shelvey is your typical MOTD player who will do something spectacular one game then disappear for the next 19. Fans who watch every game know best usually... There's someone on their forum who would swap him for Colback. I would take that deal like, but it doesn't bode well really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 It just shows how forming opinions on players from highlights and media descriptions can be highly inaccurate. Lots of people on here reckon Shelvey would be a great signing. I'm not so sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Aye, find that surprising but Groo will know a lot more about him than us. Fair play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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