Squad & tactics (2023/24)

[midds]

The idea of one of our CM dropping really deep to get possession needs to fucking stop tbh. Shelvey playing 10 yards in front of our CBs, picking up the ball under no pressure needs to be ditched immediately. Yes he can ping a pass 40 yards but they're all marked tightly so it invariably breaks down and we're quickly under pressure again. 

 

What we need is a CB to bring the ball out, have options central, left or right, players moving and looking for the ball. It frees up so many players to make runs and gets the opposition thinking. At the moment we're a dream to play against because no fucker takes any chances or moves, letting Schar bring it out and giving him options is like having 2 extra players on the pitch. It relieves 1 player from collecting a 5 yard pass and allows him to move into a position to actually make the other team react. 

 

It's so fucking simple. Unfortunately it requires dropping Lascelles who can't do it for Schar who can do it. It shifts everything. It moves the play 20 yards up the pitch. It means we're more dangerous. It means we should keep the ball for longer, building better attacks etc. 

 

We've been soft as puppy shit for so long. Time to step it up and dictate games. We've got the players, fucking do it. 

[andycap]

I'd go 

Dubravka

Trippier

Targett

Burn 

Schar (motm) last match

Shelvey (holding mid) 

Joelinton

Guimaraes

Fraser 

Maximin

Wood. 

In a 4-3-3

Using guimaraes on the right side of the three. 

And joelinton on the left side. 

[LRD]

Targett being solid defensively gives ASM freedom to roam. With Burn being comfortable and progressive on the ball, it means we can move play up rather than sitting back as we do now. Bruno and Joelinton in the middle will give us more control than Shelvey. Trippier on the right provides width and crosses.

 

When fit,

GK: Dubravka

RWB: Trippier

LWB: Targett

RCB: Schar

CB: Lascelles

LCB: Burn

RCM: Bruno

LCM: Joelinton

RW: Fraser

LW: ASM

ST: Wilson

 

If we play 4 at the back, then Willock as the advanced midfielder. Should benefit with Bruno in the side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rich]

Dubravka

 

Schär Fernandez Burn

 

Trippier Joelinton Guimarães Targett

 

Fraser Saint-Maximin

 

Wilson

 

This would be my personal “best XI”, when everyone is fit. I doubt we’ll ever see it. I do think Willock could play where Fraser is and offer more threat, but I’m keen to see if Fraser can keep improving with a run of games.

[TRon]

We have to find some way of getting the front three working as a unit rather than three separate entities all operating too far apart. Doesn't help that Wood isn't quick so clever through passes into space aren't going to get much joy either. 

[Hanshithispantz]

When both are fit it could possibly be Wood up top with Wilson and ASM either side of him. Or Willock up there.

 

We're still in a situation where anything we do in a 4 at the back formation either looks imballanced or bad.

[Yorkie]

One thing that's very sad is that, if someone had shown me a window into this thread in 2019, I'd have assumed we must've sold Miggy. When you consider how bad or ineffective some players have been, it's a shame that there isn't a place for him. Shows how much he's stagnated. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

I think we can put a competent back 4 together now; they'll still need good protection, but there's a good foundation there for a counter attacking side.

 

Survival is all about the midfield 3 balance, for me. I think we'll need to protect Guimaraes a bit, initially, by not putting him in a 2 and letting him be run ragged. Play Willock and Big Joe just ahead of him and you have 2 players who can get forward to support Wood but also do some of the dirty work (to differing degrees). 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Gallowgate Toon

[TRon]

50 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

When both are fit it could possibly be Wood up top with Wilson and ASM either side of him. Or Willock up there.

 

We're still in a situation where anything we do in a 4 at the back formation either looks imballanced or bad.

 

If Wilson't fit then that immediately solves 50% of our problems up front. He's reasonably quick and he does find the spaces for the through balls, and if he's paired with Wood, you know he'll find the knockdowns as well.

[junkhead]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

One thing that's very sad is that, if someone had shown me a window into this thread in 2019, I'd have assumed we must've sold Miggy. When you consider how bad or ineffective some players have been, it's a shame that there isn't a place for him. Shows how much he's stagnated. 

 

Very true. Of all our players seems like Bruceball hit him the hardest. It's painful to watch him this season.

 

It seems that Almiron needs some serious one-on-one coaching and reminding of the basics. Also if he is to regain any form, he needs to be played exclusively on the left wing.. or the left of a middle 3 at a push. 

 

[Holmesy]

11 hours ago, duo said:

Crossing 

When?! I haven't seen him do any or no decent ones at least. Murphy offers so much more (despite still being Championship level)

[Happinesstan]

Having seen Bruno's assist for Brazil I am now in no doubt about his role. He can do everything Shelvey can and more. I still wouldn't drop Shelvey, yet. I think playing Bruno should relieve Shelvey of his defensive responsibilities, and allow him to do what he likes most. and I'd like to see him further up the pitch. Passing it around the penalty area and getting chances like the one against Leeds.

Similar to how he played in his debut against West Ham. 

Willock gives us another, more direct option, should it be required.

 

I like Shelvey, despite him being a it of a footballer, and want every player at the club to excel. I think he'd be happier in a more advanced role, you have to remember it's the managers who have asked him to do the role he's been playing. Now Bruno can do that role.

[TRon]

42 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

Having seen Bruno's assist for Brazil I am now in no doubt about his role. He can do everything Shelvey can and more. I still wouldn't drop Shelvey, yet. I think playing Bruno should relieve Shelvey of his defensive responsibilities, and allow him to do what he likes most. and I'd like to see him further up the pitch. Passing it around the penalty area and getting chances like the one against Leeds.

Similar to how he played in his debut against West Ham. 

Willock gives us another, more direct option, should it be required.

 

I like Shelvey, despite him being a it of a footballer, and want every player at the club to excel. I think he'd be happier in a more advanced role, you have to remember it's the managers who have asked him to do the role he's been playing. Now Bruno can do that role.

 

The reason why so many managers play Shelvey in a deep role is because it saves him from running backwards too much, at least that's how I've always seen it. He's not in there for ball winning abilities. If you play him further up the pitch, he will get killed in the transitions when we lose the ball.

[Happinesstan]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

The reason why so many managers play Shelvey in a deep role is because it saves him from running backwards too much, at least that's how I've always seen it. He's not in there for ball winning abilities. If you play him further up the pitch, he will get killed in the transitions when we lose the ball.

I know that but with a player like Bruno taking his role, that is less likely to punish the team. Hence relieving him of his defensive responsibilities.

[Dr Venkman]

11 hours ago, midds said:

The idea of one of our CM dropping really deep to get possession needs to fucking stop tbh. Shelvey playing 10 yards in front of our CBs, picking up the ball under no pressure needs to be ditched immediately. Yes he can ping a pass 40 yards but they're all marked tightly so it invariably breaks down and we're quickly under pressure again. 

 

What we need is a CB to bring the ball out, have options central, left or right, players moving and looking for the ball. It frees up so many players to make runs and gets the opposition thinking. At the moment we're a dream to play against because no fucker takes any chances or moves, letting Schar bring it out and giving him options is like having 2 extra players on the pitch. It relieves 1 player from collecting a 5 yard pass and allows him to move into a position to actually make the other team react. 

 

It's so fucking simple. Unfortunately it requires dropping Lascelles who can't do it for Schar who can do it. It shifts everything. It moves the play 20 yards up the pitch. It means we're more dangerous. It means we should keep the ball for longer, building better attacks etc. 

 

We've been soft as puppy shit for so long. Time to step it up and dictate games. We've got the players, fucking do it. 

Hard agree.

[TRon]

9 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

I know that but with a player like Bruno taking his role, that is less likely to punish the team. Hence relieving him of his defensive responsibilities.

 

That would make him a luxury player basically, not sure his end product justifies giving him a slot like that. We used to give Laurent Robert that sort of freedom on the left wing, but that guy delivered most games.

[Lush Vlad]

5 hours ago, TRon said:

We have to find some way of getting the front three working as a unit rather than three separate entities all operating too far apart. Doesn't help that Wood isn't quick so clever through passes into space aren't going to get much joy either. 

 

I thought the second half against Leeds.  There seemed to be an obvious change in how Fraser and ASM played.  They seemed to be getting a lot closer to Wood, especially for flick ons and trying to link the play.  Willock also looked to push forward and support a lot more, like he did last season.  

 

I suppose the caveat is that it was against a fairly shit midfield and in a very open game.  But some positive signs, at least

[Happinesstan]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

That would make him a luxury player basically, not sure his end product justifies giving him a slot like that. We used to give Laurent Robert that sort of freedom on the left wing, but that guy delivered most games.

I'm not sure he's anymore of a luxury than Willock, in that regard. Different options. If we want a patient approach Shelvey can deliver, but if we're going more direct Willock to get in the box.

[Happinesstan]

But yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that the acquisition of Bruno would appear to allow us that luxury.

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

I thought the second half against Leeds.  There seemed to be an obvious change in how Fraser and ASM played.  They seemed to be getting a lot closer to Wood, especially for flick ons and trying to link the play.  Willock also looked to push forward and support a lot more, like he did last season.  

 

I suppose the caveat is that it was against a fairly shit midfield and in a very open game.  But some positive signs, at least

 

Well I assumed that was their role to start with tbh, that's why it's a bit disappointing in two games they haven't really clicked. But I guess they might improve like they did in the second half.

[Lush Vlad]

I think the changes will mainly be straight swaps and no real formation changed, based on who we have signed.  Bruno in for Longstaff/Willock, Targett in at left back, Burn in for Lascelles (hopefully) or Schar.  

 

I'm hoping there isn't a blind spot with Lascelles, due to him being captain.  The other 3 new players at the back are going to struggle to push higher up the pitch and try to pass the ball with more confidence, if Lascelles is still starting.  

 

I think Fraser and Shelvey will start.  However, it would be nice to see in some games if Murphy or even Willock could offer a bit more in an attacking sense.  Fraser has offered graft this season under Howe.  But bar the odd quality cross or set piece.  Basically sod all else in pretty much his whole time here.

 

Shelvey has felt like a necessary evil a lot of the time.  We have struggled to pass the ball forward from the back, which is where he usually resides, or midfield without him in the team.  I don't think it will happen.  But it would be nice to eventually see how we get on without him, now we have a competent passer of the ball, who is also mobile and doesn't seem to crumble under pressure from the opposition.  I think an extra runner in there and someone able to press like Howe wants could be massive.  

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

I'm not sure he's anymore of a luxury than Willock, in that regard. Different options. If we want a patient approach Shelvey can deliver, but if we're going more direct Willock to get in the box.

 

I think Willock is capable of getting up and down the pitch more effectively. He was doing it against Leeds, although it's clear he prefers going forwards. Plus he is a goal threat, far more direct as you say. I think that's what we need, someone who'll actually get on the end of things.

[The Prophet]

Howe has definitely struggled to find the right balance with a limited squad, but the new additions should help him greatly.

 

Against Brentford and Leicester, we tried to play on the front foot, but we far too easy to play through, leaving acres of space in between the lines.

 

In a majority of other games, it's obvious Howe has tried to make us more compact, but in doing that, we've sacrificed our attacking threat and we look pedestrian in transition.

 

The addition of quality full backs and midfield pivot, should mean we can keep a compact shape, but we're much sharper at getting the ball from back to front and committing bodies forward. Although we haven't bought attackers per se, the whole balance and fluidity of the side should now improve.

[Lush Vlad]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Well I assumed that was their role to start with tbh, that's why it's a bit disappointing in two games they haven't really clicked. But I guess they might improve like they did in the second half.

 

ASM looked isolated against Watford and in the first half against Leeds.  He seemed to play very wide by his standards, didn't get a lot of space and just wasn't really offering much.  When he started drifting infield and getting closer to Wood, I thought he looked really dangerous.  

 

Fraser plays like an old fashioned winger.  Seems to be really wide and looks to get down the line.  Unfortunately, doesn't seem to get at his man and get a cross in too often.  But as others have alluded to, it's not like we have loads of targets to aim at in the box, or that we get too many chances to do this, the way we have been playing for the last however many years.   

[Happinesstan]

I think the Brentford game is what he will look to replicate, we were at our most effective in attack that day, but struggled at the back, we've strengthened in the areas we were lacking defensively that day.