Squad & tactics (2025/26)

[r0cafella]

5 hours ago, The Prophet said:

That data also suggests that we're desperate for a new keeper.

We do, Pope should have been sold 2 years ago, not because he's bad he isn't but because we can't keep players like we are a retirement home. We need to sell and reinvest in better.

[oldtype]

On 28/12/2025 at 08:03, The Prophet said:

 

 

So much of football is down to luck, and the chain reaction that repeated bad luck causes through worsening morale. 

 

You have to try to be so good that the luck doesn't matter, of course, and we're clearly not there. But I think it's fair to say that we've had terrible luck this season which has moved the results from "more or less acceptable" to "very disappointing."

[oldtype]

On 28/12/2025 at 08:19, The Prophet said:

 

Two things that I think we have lost that data can't capture is our box defending and our mental toughness. Some of the goals we conceded are so soft.

 

To be fair, how many conceded goals do you look at and say "great goal, but that was some extremely good/hard/tough defending."

 

At the premier league level, almost by definition the ball is going into the back of the net because somebody fucked up or lost concentration for a split second.

[TRon]

Not so much a judgement on the tactics but on the squad itself: we really do need to be finding players who can shoot. In our current squad there's not that many who can strike a ball well. 

 

Barnes definitely can. After that I'm scratching my head a bit. 

 

If you doubt it, just ask yourself how many of them would you fancy to score from a set piece 25 yds out?

 

 

[Astroblack]

Would put Murphy on all dead balls. 

[Holloway]

why should Pope have been sold 2 years ago ? He had a rather large hand in us winning our first trophy for etc etc

[Shak]

Was thinking from the transfer rumours thread about what kind of setup we need to get the best out of Woltemade.

 

The obvious one is a change of formation, so we have something close to two up top with a pacy #9 type to stretch teams behind. Wissa would fit the bill pretty perfectly, I do wonder if Eddie might be tempted to give it a go in one of the next two games?

 

If I’m honest though, I have a hard time seeing Eddie go away from the 4-3-3 as the primary setup, with the odd five at the back game to set up to counter teams and maybe occasionally going two up top when chasing games.

 

At some point I could see something like this being interesting. Woltemade basically operating like a false nine.

 

(I know Thiaw and Botman are on the wrong side)

 

In this setup the wide players are tasked with essentially playing right up on the shoulder of the CBs and becoming almost like strikers when in possession, forcing the defence back and giving Woltemade and the midfielders space to operate and runners behind to look for.

 

Tino and Hall then push up aggressively and provide the width.

 

Wissa would be nigh on perfect for this, I reckon. Put Barnes in there as I think he would be the most suited of the other wide options.

 

In possession then we ultimately look more like this.

 

 

Think ultimately that’s how you get the best out of Woltemade, we need players beyond him so that when he takes in the ball with his back to goal and turns or lays it off we have runners to aim for in advanced positions.

 

Another thing I like about it is that it solves the issue of our wide players being technically quite limited. None of them can really get on the ball and unlock a defense, but I could see all of them being useful doing this with Barnes’ eye for goal and the pace Gordon and Elanga have. Ultimately we will hopefully have an upgrade on Joelinton and then you’d be hoping to run most of our creative player through him, Bruno and Woltemade.

It also takes two of our best players in Tino and Hall and gives them much more prominence in our attacking play, serving as wing backs essentially. (Needless to say, we’d need competent backups as this would be beyond Dan Burn and the current iteration of Trippier)

 

Anyway, just me nerding on here

[Sibierski]

IMO, you don’t need both wingers to do that because it can unbalance the side massively in and out of possession.

 

Need an asymmetric approach, where one of the wingers comes more central alongside Wolte, with full back providing the width when attacking down the opposite flank. I.e We’re building up down left, RW comes very central and RB is high and wide (with RCB pacey enough to cover ground). 
 

It’s a small tweak, but still requires CM collection get used to passing angles because one of the wingers won’t be hugging touchline.

 

[Shak]

1 hour ago, Sibierski said:

IMO, you don’t need both wingers to do that because it can unbalance the side massively in and out of possession.

 

Need an asymmetric approach, where one of the wingers comes more central alongside Wolte, with full back providing the width when attacking down the opposite flank. I.e We’re building up down left, RW comes very central and RB is high and wide (with RCB pacey enough to cover ground). 
 

It’s a small tweak, but still requires CM collection get used to passing angles because one of the wingers won’t be hugging touchline.

 

Aye, doesn’t have to be both, would agree with that.

 

Think it’ll be interesting to see how we approach it in terms of adding players for the front three in the summer, and if we potentially look to move some players on (Gordon seems the obvious candidate) for decent money to get players who can better complement Woltemade.

[Lush Vlad]

Was pretty fed up watching yesterday and was trying to pay more attention to our shape and what we try to do in an attacking sense.  

 

When other teams surrender possession and are happy for us to have it, we really do struggle.  More so away from home, as I think at SJP when we build pressure, the crowd do get behind the team and we can sustain attacks fairly well at times.  So it does feel like a goal is coming.  Yesterday, it felt like a 0-0 after what, 20-30 minutes.  FWIW, I thought we were fine with our approach first half and hoped we might build on it.  But it was just more of the same.   

 

This horseshoe passing shape that seems so in vogue to mention and highlight this season.  With Liverpool, City and Arsenal being the main culprits.  Seems to have made its way to us.  Except when we do it, we seem to span almost the entire half, we move the ball very slowly from side to side, often needing a few touches and to carry the ball a distance before shifting it on.  Regularly going back to our CB's, to then move it to the full back and out to the winger etc.  You're not really putting the other team under any pressure doing this and there is a ginormous gap in the middle of the pitch.    

 

Someone posted up the passing map from the first half yesterday and I can only assume it was similar in the second.  There is a huge gap near the edge of the box all the while where we just never find space for a pass or worse, we set up not work the ball into this area.  Our striker isn't linking play from there and none of our midfield 3 or wide men are finding space there often enough.  

 

When we're not creating chances, it would be nice to rely on the occasional bit of magic or a long shot from the edge of the box.  But if nobody is taking up those positions, then how are we supposed to even get shots away?  When we do find ourselves in a shooting position, it always seems a bit laboured and like we haven't really worked an opening.  Maybe just a fortuitous ricochet or clearance falling to one of our players.  So it is just Gordon, Tonali or Hall for example just having a crack.  Where it seems like they have a very high percentage of their shots blocked.  I certainly agree with all the posters who were saying we need to get more shots off.  But I don't watch us in many games and think 'he should be having a crack from there, he's got loads of time and space.'  I didn't yesterday, at least.

 

As for the straight swap with Woltemade and Wissa all the time.  I find that baffling.  Plenty of games where we have needed a goal and it is just like for like, two totally contrasting styles and then more of the same with our build up.  So it almost feels like it doesn't really matter who is up there.  As we are not getting the ball to them or creating chances for them.  It was far from perfect, but I liked what I saw with Woltemade deeper at times against Bournemouth and Wissa's profile should work well with him.  I'm not sure Howe agrees, mind.  As he was uncharacteristically honest and pretty negative on it after the game:

 

Quote

"It was OK. There were some good bits and bits that weren’t maybe so good. I wanted to do it in a game that would tactically benefit us.

"I wanted the option to go to it, I don’t see this being a regular system… but who knows.”

 

If he doesn't want to play those two.  Then what about Ramsey?  Someone who actually finds space and shows for the ball.  Even Willock yesterday might have done something with the game opening up.  We had a fair bit of space late on to drive with the ball.  But we spurned the opportunity or did fuck all with it. 

 

We had 2 subs left and didn't use them.  Which when you consider how important it was to get a win and how the fatigue and number of games keeps getting referenced.  Why didn't we use at least one of them?  Big Joe spent large parts of the game doing naff all, not his fault per se.  Just not his type of game.  He's also played loads of minutes since returning from injury and we're doing the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.  He is such a beast when fit and firing.  But it's been a good season or two of him playing through various ailments now.  It always seems like the semi-pre-planned 3 subs after 65 minutes.  Rarely before and rarely anything a bit different to change our style and shape. 

 

The corners have got a lot better and we actually look threatening.  Thiaw and then Joelinton should have scored in the first half.  It's a bad miss from Thiaw and then Joe is on his heels and just misses the ball.  So it is good that we might be able to use these as a source for goals when we are struggling to create. The free kicks are as aimless as ever. 

 

TL;DR - our passing patterns in attack need a lot of improvement, we need more long shots, our subs often leave a lot to be desired and our corners aren't shit these days. 

 

[Kilcline]

10 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Was pretty fed up watching yesterday and was trying to pay more attention to our shape and what we try to do in an attacking sense.  

 

When other teams surrender possession and are happy for us to have it, we really do struggle.  More so away from home, as I think at SJP when we build pressure, the crowd do get behind the team and we can sustain attacks fairly well at times.  So it does feel like a goal is coming.  Yesterday, it felt like a 0-0 after what, 20-30 minutes.  FWIW, I thought we were fine with our approach first half and hoped we might build on it.  But it was just more of the same.   

 

This horseshoe passing shape that seems so in vogue to mention and highlight this season.  With Liverpool, City and Arsenal being the main culprits.  Seems to have made its way to us.  Except when we do it, we seem to span almost the entire half, we move the ball very slowly from side to side, often needing a few touches and to carry the ball a distance before shifting it on.  Regularly going back to our CB's, to then move it to the full back and out to the winger etc.  You're not really putting the other team under any pressure doing this and there is a ginormous gap in the middle of the pitch.    

 

Someone posted up the passing map from the first half yesterday and I can only assume it was similar in the second.  There is a huge gap near the edge of the box all the while where we just never find space for a pass or worse, we set up not work the ball into this area.  Our striker isn't linking play from there and none of our midfield 3 or wide men are finding space there often enough.  

 

When we're not creating chances, it would be nice to rely on the occasional bit of magic or a long shot from the edge of the box.  But if nobody is taking up those positions, then how are we supposed to even get shots away?  When we do find ourselves in a shooting position, it always seems a bit laboured and like we haven't really worked an opening.  Maybe just a fortuitous ricochet or clearance falling to one of our players.  So it is just Gordon, Tonali or Hall for example just having a crack.  Where it seems like they have a very high percentage of their shots blocked.  I certainly agree with all the posters who were saying we need to get more shots off.  But I don't watch us in many games and think 'he should be having a crack from there, he's got loads of time and space.'  I didn't yesterday, at least.

 

As for the straight swap with Woltemade and Wissa all the time.  I find that baffling.  Plenty of games where we have needed a goal and it is just like for like, two totally contrasting styles and then more of the same with our build up.  So it almost feels like it doesn't really matter who is up there.  As we are not getting the ball to them or creating chances for them.  It was far from perfect, but I liked what I saw with Woltemade deeper at times against Bournemouth and Wissa's profile should work well with him.  I'm not sure Howe agrees, mind.  As he was uncharacteristically honest and pretty negative on it after the game:

 

 

If he doesn't want to play those two.  Then what about Ramsey?  Someone who actually finds space and shows for the ball.  Even Willock yesterday might have done something with the game opening up.  We had a fair bit of space late on to drive with the ball.  But we spurned the opportunity or did fuck all with it. 

 

We had 2 subs left and didn't use them.  Which when you consider how important it was to get a win and how the fatigue and number of games keeps getting referenced.  Why didn't we use at least one of them?  Big Joe spent large parts of the game doing naff all, not his fault per se.  Just not his type of game.  He's also played loads of minutes since returning from injury and we're doing the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.  He is such a beast when fit and firing.  But it's been a good season or two of him playing through various ailments now.  It always seems like the semi-pre-planned 3 subs after 65 minutes.  Rarely before and rarely anything a bit different to change our style and shape. 

 

The corners have got a lot better and we actually look threatening.  Thiaw and then Joelinton should have scored in the first half.  It's a bad miss from Thiaw and then Joe is on his heels and just misses the ball.  So it is good that we might be able to use these as a source for goals when we are struggling to create. The free kicks are as aimless as ever. 

 

TL;DR - our passing patterns in attack need a lot of improvement, we need more long shots, our subs often leave a lot to be desired and our corners aren't shit these days. 

 

On the free kicks, I didn't know what the hell we were doing a few times yesterday, we looked to have a good angle to get it into the box and played it to someone central to go long from there, it was bizarre. Can only assume (or hope!) we were trying to draw a press or manufacture something to create a different/another angle 

[stozo]

Found myself wondering tonight whether our lack of pressing this season is not just workload related but also potentially Howe not being keen to press as much with new players who don't yet full understand all the trigger points and tactical nuances. In the second half there were occasions with both Wissa and Woltemade where they messed up the press and PSV were up on the edge of our box in no time with the pressers struggling to get back in shape. Came to nothing largely due to PSV being pretty toothless but made me wonder whether there is a concern that should situations like that emerge in the PL, those teams may be far better placed to punish us. Seem to also remember a situation last week against City where Howe was shouting at Wissa and Ramsey for messing up the press. 

[Lush Vlad]

TBF we can’t always press. Especially if teams just sit in a mid to low block and give us the ball. 
 

Away from home when teams have done that. That’s where a lot of our problems have come from. Not scored in 6 away games I think now and I’m sure we saw a lot of the ball in those games. At least for long spells or a half. 
 

If teams play open like tonight. We will always have a chance. Not saying we wouldn’t lose to better sides or have our press bypassed. But we would create and look a lot better as a team. 

[Steve Charlton]

I did like Sandro inbetween Mal + Sven in the high line with everyone else pushed up.Very threatening,Missed the Wolves game but havent seen Eddie set us up like that before

[Lush Vlad]

On 19/01/2026 at 13:43, Lush Vlad said:

Was pretty fed up watching yesterday and was trying to pay more attention to our shape and what we try to do in an attacking sense.  

 

When other teams surrender possession and are happy for us to have it, we really do struggle.  More so away from home, as I think at SJP when we build pressure, the crowd do get behind the team and we can sustain attacks fairly well at times.  So it does feel like a goal is coming.  Yesterday, it felt like a 0-0 after what, 20-30 minutes.  FWIW, I thought we were fine with our approach first half and hoped we might build on it.  But it was just more of the same.   

 

This horseshoe passing shape that seems so in vogue to mention and highlight this season.  With Liverpool, City and Arsenal being the main culprits.  Seems to have made its way to us.  Except when we do it, we seem to span almost the entire half, we move the ball very slowly from side to side, often needing a few touches and to carry the ball a distance before shifting it on.  Regularly going back to our CB's, to then move it to the full back and out to the winger etc.  You're not really putting the other team under any pressure doing this and there is a ginormous gap in the middle of the pitch.    

 

Someone posted up the passing map from the first half yesterday and I can only assume it was similar in the second.  There is a huge gap near the edge of the box all the while where we just never find space for a pass or worse, we set up not work the ball into this area.  Our striker isn't linking play from there and none of our midfield 3 or wide men are finding space there often enough.  

 

When we're not creating chances, it would be nice to rely on the occasional bit of magic or a long shot from the edge of the box.  But if nobody is taking up those positions, then how are we supposed to even get shots away?  When we do find ourselves in a shooting position, it always seems a bit laboured and like we haven't really worked an opening.  Maybe just a fortuitous ricochet or clearance falling to one of our players.  So it is just Gordon, Tonali or Hall for example just having a crack.  Where it seems like they have a very high percentage of their shots blocked.  I certainly agree with all the posters who were saying we need to get more shots off.  But I don't watch us in many games and think 'he should be having a crack from there, he's got loads of time and space.'  I didn't yesterday, at least.

 

As for the straight swap with Woltemade and Wissa all the time.  I find that baffling.  Plenty of games where we have needed a goal and it is just like for like, two totally contrasting styles and then more of the same with our build up.  So it almost feels like it doesn't really matter who is up there.  As we are not getting the ball to them or creating chances for them.  It was far from perfect, but I liked what I saw with Woltemade deeper at times against Bournemouth and Wissa's profile should work well with him.  I'm not sure Howe agrees, mind.  As he was uncharacteristically honest and pretty negative on it after the game:

 

 

If he doesn't want to play those two.  Then what about Ramsey?  Someone who actually finds space and shows for the ball.  Even Willock yesterday might have done something with the game opening up.  We had a fair bit of space late on to drive with the ball.  But we spurned the opportunity or did fuck all with it. 

 

We had 2 subs left and didn't use them.  Which when you consider how important it was to get a win and how the fatigue and number of games keeps getting referenced.  Why didn't we use at least one of them?  Big Joe spent large parts of the game doing naff all, not his fault per se.  Just not his type of game.  He's also played loads of minutes since returning from injury and we're doing the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.  He is such a beast when fit and firing.  But it's been a good season or two of him playing through various ailments now.  It always seems like the semi-pre-planned 3 subs after 65 minutes.  Rarely before and rarely anything a bit different to change our style and shape. 

 

The corners have got a lot better and we actually look threatening.  Thiaw and then Joelinton should have scored in the first half.  It's a bad miss from Thiaw and then Joe is on his heels and just misses the ball.  So it is good that we might be able to use these as a source for goals when we are struggling to create. The free kicks are as aimless as ever. 

 

TL;DR - our passing patterns in attack need a lot of improvement, we need more long shots, our subs often leave a lot to be desired and our corners aren't shit these days. 

 

 

Bumping this for anyone who’s bored or needs to get to sleep. 
 

So much of this applies to the game today. So sick of the sideways passing, then running with the ball to carry it 10 yards, to then get it to the spare man, who now isn’t in any space. As you’ve taken too many touches and too long to shift it. 
 

Villa had a decent spell in the first half of little triangles and players near each other with decent movement. Where they were actually working openings. We very rarely do that or even attempt it. 
 

It is that giant horseshoe setup with players constantly marked and not in much space and big old gaps between our players. It seems as if our passing patterns are the same most weeks and teams know what we’re doing and can easily nullify it when they sit a bit deeper than usual. 

[Ronson333]

Our midfielders are told to play it out wide and then someone eventually crosses it in. We create hardly anything through the middle despite getting into decent positions.

Initially I thought it was a lack of creative force, maybe it still is to a a degree, but doesn’t matter who we play there they all still pass it wide and take no risks through the middle.

 

It makes us much easier to defend against.

[Lotus]

Our best attacking tactic is not having the ball and pressurising defenders/gk into bad/sloppy passes.

We're not coached into a unit that can open teams up. That’s not what we’re best or even good at. High intensity, high aggressive press. Relentless running and leaving a foot in. 
We’ve got players who can play good possession football, they demonstrate that for their national teams but it’s not the DNA of our success under EH. 
We’ve got into the CL and won a pot by being utter c**ts to play against, underdog attitude, cover more distance than the opponents, Gordon diving (basically his assists)

So, I don’t think our shape with the ball matters nearly as much as our shape and intention without it.

[Smal]

Our full backs have 1 assist between them in the league this season and it was Hall indirectly from a corner, so basically none from open play. Something not right there.

 

 

Edited January 26 by Smal

[r0cafella]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

Our full backs have 1 assist between them in the league this season and it was Hall indirectly from a corner, so basically none from open play. Something not right there.

 

 

 

Same issue with our wingers to an extent. Take away Barnes and look at open play in the league and whatever we are doing on the flanks flat out doesn't work. 

[Lush Vlad]

6 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Same issue with our wingers to an extent. Take away Barnes and look at open play in the league and whatever we are doing on the flanks flat out doesn't work. 

They used to be such a positive force and source of goals and assists. For various reasons. Including our striker problems, injuries/form, teams sitting off and respecting us a bit more, full backs not being fit often enough to assist in creating space, the time we take to work the ball to them. 
 

It’s not good. I don’t remember us creating chance after chance from wide that we should be burying or glaring misses from our wide men every game. They just regularly don’t look dangerous or in much space. 

 

 

Edited January 26 by Lush Vlad

[Gallowgate Toon]

Our crossing stats this season are quite mad, like. We're way out in front with 588 attempted, Forest are next up with 547, and then Spurs with 507(!). 

 

Compared to previous seasons under Howe, we were fairly middle/upper middle of the road for this one. It seems a bit weird to me that we've suddenly gone this way but it's probably not totally by design. I think as teams sit deeper & narrower against us, we look to stretch the pitch but a lack of patterns/coaching/quality/bodies/balls/any of the above, we don't really get anywhere so just end up chucking it in against a settled defensive line.

[Keefaz]

I can't bear to watch another harmless cross sail into the box. It's fucking infuriating. Try anything else.

[llcoolc157]

Corners…. Can someone explain why late in the game, a big lad like Miley goes across to take one… whilst Hall and Elanga take up positions in the box…

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I've said this previously in the Wolt thread but I do think 3 at the back is the way forward for us.

 

We can do the 3-6-1 like today but also mix it up to a 3-4-3 when the opposition attack is weaker or a 3-5-1-1 when a link man makes a difference.

 

It also allows the squad to be used more and gives Miley/Hall/Tino opportunity to work more advanced 

[Lush Vlad]

7 hours ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

I've said this previously in the Wolt thread but I do think 3 at the back is the way forward for us.

 

We can do the 3-6-1 like today but also mix it up to a 3-4-3 when the opposition attack is weaker or a 3-5-1-1 when a link man makes a difference.

 

It also allows the squad to be used more and gives Miley/Hall/Tino opportunity to work more advanced 

On the whole. I have never liked it. But this season the couple of times we have played it in Europe. We seem to have played with two behind the front man that has worked well and with a lot more fluidity than I can remember. 
 

The fact we have quite a few players that suit that formation, bar enough fit and decent enough defenders, of course.  Along with not being able to tell who our best midfielders and forwards would be. With genuine options across the pitch feels like a big plus. It could work well for us in certain games. 
 

I think more for away games against teams like last night. When we are afforded plenty of space is when it will work best. Not sure it would always be suitable at home against say a team like Wolves, West Ham or Everton. Although you would get more players into central areas near the striker, I guess. 
 

I wouldn’t mind if we persisted with it or some variant of it, TBH. As I think the stock 4-3-3 is far too rigid and easy to set up against now. Plus we often seem so open playing it and it is easy to bypass the press and get beyond our midfield.
 

I know we got carved apart in the middle early on last night. But we still had numbers behind to help out. The 4-3-3 regularly sees us with 2 on 2/3 on 3 or overloads that are a real struggle to defend against. Happened constantly against Villa. 
 

I guess now the main issue is only having 3 fit CB’s, one fit LB/LWB who has played loads of games in a row and one on the other side who is past it. Another new position for Miley then  

 

Perhaps we would have seen it more of Hall, Tino, Botman, Burn and to a lesser degree, Trippier. Weren’t missing at times where we could have used it more often.