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Hatem Ben Arfa (now retired?)

Dave

by Dave
in Football

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Eddy Chibas

Eddy Chibas

Posted
Posted

Errr....I rate Ben Arfas talents but honestly I don't rate him as a team player. And to suggest Bobby can utilise him - I really doubt that. We are talking about a player who nearly fall out with every manager (except Puel) and colleagues in his career.

 

Just imagine Hatem under Rafa. I guarantee you with all my belongings that this will crash real hard.

 

I really love his talents. I really do. But his brain let everyone down, including himself.

 

What happened to Robert after Sir Bobby was sacked? What happened to Ginola after Keegan left? They were cast aside by the next manager pretty much immediately.

 

99% of football managers imo either aren't capable, or don't want to, work with a flair player of that type, which is why Sir Bobby and Keegan were special since they appreciated them. That's down to the prevalent mentality within the sport, managers are trained and developed to appreciate hard work, teamwork, etc, more than individual talent because it's inherent to the job. The majority of professional footballers are "talented" so the easiest and default thing to do as a football manager is to get them as fit as possible and working as hard as possible on the pitch to try to get three points. A player like Robert / Ginola / Ben Arfa throws a spanner in the works, because their talent far exceeds that of those around them but they come with issues that causes disruption, not only in match day tactics but off the field as well - jealousy from inferior players, resentment from hard working teammates who see someone not pulling their weight defensively, etc etc. So on top of the requirement to be tactically flexible, managers need an additional set of interpersonal skills to deal with the complaints and squad harmony issues. Most managers just don't have that in their skillset or can't be bothered.

 

Ben Arfa is simply unlucky in that he never found the combination of right manager + right club. At Nice he had the right manager and teammates, but the club was too small fry arguably. NUFC was the right club for him because we're a "sleeping giant" in terms of potential (we can afford good wages, have a big stadium with large support, "best league in da world" etc), Hatem himself said "everything is here" just before he left so he clearly understood the potential of the club if it were run well. We're also not able to attract players of his talent level minus the flaws - if Ben Arfa was solid defensively, made more runs off the ball, and released the ball more optimally you can be sure he'd have been snapped up by Real/Barca/Juve/City/Bayern/etc as soon as he was available. We never had a chance of getting Hazard, or Ribery, or Robben when they were in France/Holland for example, we'd only have a chance if there was something off-putting about them. Similarly, a top club won't need to put up with a flawed player like Ben Arfa since they can sign players at his ability level or higher without the flaws. So NUFC was a club where because we're restricted to flawed geniuses the team could have been built around him by putting him in a key position that compensated for his flaws (e.g. wide forward with minimal defensive duties) and having teammates with the necessary skillset to cover for him. But unfortunately we had the wrong manager at the time. Nice had the right manager, but were too small a club to keep him.

 

Just to give one example out of many as to why Pardew was a terrible manager for Ben Arfa, just consider the fact that we played Ben Arfa as a wide forward in a front 3 (in a 4-3-3 system) about a dozen times in his 4 years here. That's a role he seemed to be most suited for, and it meant less defensive responsibility and more freedom to attack. Most of that dozen or so games were during the run of impressive form that had us playing fluid football for a couple of months which ultimately was the catalyst for us finishing 5th and nearly qualifying for the CL. Ben Arfa was our standout player in that period, but before that season had even finished Pardew abandoned that formation/lineup forever, and steadfastedly stuck with his preferred flat defensive 4-4-2 for pretty much the remainder of his time here. I can't recall if we saw Ben Arfa played as a wide forward in a front 3 again after that, but if we did it would have been completely sporadic/random one-offs. What kind of a shit for brains manager abandons a system/formation that gets the best out of not only everyone in the squad but also it's most gifted player who actually produced great form in that system? The Alan Pardew type does.

 

Anyway, more to the point, since Bobby and Keegan were managers who appreciated flair players and understood NUFC as a club (especially its limitations of the type of player were restricted to, i.e. flawed geniuses that the elites don't want), I have no doubts they would have not only incorporated Ben Arfa in their teams but most likely would have built the team around him. With respect to Rafa, he's from the same school of manager as your Pardews, Sounesses, Alladyces, Mourinhos, etc, a negative manager who doesn't like players who don't follow instructions and don't like to take risks, but the difference with Rafa is that he's actually exceptionally good at most things (tactics, transfers, training, player development, etc), so that will compensate for him missing a trick at NUFC of utilising flawed geniuses whilst other clubs avoid it.

 

Class post ?

 

It is a good post. I'm still of the belief that if Obertan hadn't broke a toe, Ben Arfa wouldn't have broken into the starting eleven and that three headed attacking monster (Ba, Cisse & HBA...which Pardoo accidentally stumbled upon as his moment of tactical genius) would never have materialized.

 

Ben Arfa (before he had even kicked a ball under Pards..... when he was still recovering from the broken leg) highlighting the differences between Clairefontaine's football philosophy and Pardoo's wouldn't have sat well with The King either.

 

 

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Cronky

Cronky

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Posted

The argument over whether or not to pick the skilful but unreliable player is probably one of the oldest in sport.

 

I do wonder whether managers, under pressure to produce results, succumb to anxiety too often and go for 'safe' options rather take what they may see as a risk. And I do think that the skilful player who makes a mistake by not tracking back or failing to tackle pays a greater penalty than the clogger who wastes a goal-scoring opportunity by failing to pass accurately. As an eg, I question why Rafa isn't making more use of Merino's skill.

 

On the other hand, I'm aware that this pattern of the supporter having a higher regard than the manager, for the maverick, is very, very common in football. It does appeal to our romantic, optimistic side. Having to pay the consequences for your decisions does sharpen up your thinking in any form of working life, and that's the lot of the manager. However, in general, I'm still cheekily inclined to think that the contribution of the skilful player is easily underestimated.

 

Unfortunately though, I think there are issues with HBA that go beyond how much you may or may not rate his contribution on the field. He has difficulties in getting on with team mates as well as authority figures, and seems to have a tendency to self-destruct. The prime example of that for me was when, having finally secured a move to a club worthy of his talent, he turns up at PSG overweight and unfit.

 

 

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54

54

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

[emoji38] [emoji38]

 

Fat - Yes

 

Troublemaker - Yes

 

Lazy - no that's alot of pizza to organize.

 

 

[emoji38]

Surely it's just a case of ordering 30 pizzas on the day and getting them delivered to the training ground, would only take 2 minutes :lol:

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Si

Si

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

[emoji38] [emoji38]

 

Fat - Yes

 

Troublemaker - Yes

 

Lazy - no that's alot of pizza to organize.

 

 

[emoji38]

Surely it's just a case of ordering 30 pizzas on the day and getting them delivered to the training ground, would only take 2 minutes [emoji38]

[emoji38]
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Ikon

Ikon

Posted
Posted

He really should go back to Nice last summer.  And after the story's revealed I doubt Nice fans would want him back.

 

Talented and I love him, but I doubt that he can time travel.

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Kaizero

Kaizero

Posted
Posted

He really should go back to Nice last summer.  And after the story's revealed I doubt Nice fans would want him back.

 

Talented and I love him, but I doubt that he can time travel.

 

:lol:

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