England

[KaKa]

11 hours ago, TenkoDaLuz said:

 

Kind of my reflections back to 2016.

 

Silverware is good, but lately I have been wondering what is about football that glued me to it in the first place - something that hasnt been happening for a while now.

 

If I could go back to relive any NT tournament, I would go straight to reliving the EURO 2000 campaign even knowing we would lose in a very cruel way.

 

I came to realize that nobody here has fond memories of a NT that yes won something but in the end it won while being completely cynical and relying heavily on luck. Whereas if you ask anyone about our 2000 campaign you will see that same person smiling from ear to ear and telling you where they were in the 3-2 against England, or the 3-0 against Germany. And so on.

 

The same way everyone fondly remembers the 1974 Dutch side because of "total football", but many dont even remember who actually won that same World Cup.

 

Many people will tell you that this is just virtue signalling, as in, if you win you shouldnt complain about the way you win. I used to think like that too.

 

Only recently I have started to realize how toxic this cynical view can be for the game itself.

 

 

 

 

Always found the 'we won so nothing else matters' attitude incredibly shit.

 

I'm sorry but if you can't figure out a way to win by playing the game in a way that is compelling, please just piss off. 

 

It is particularly unacceptable when you have the talent available to produce far better, and excuses keep being made.

 

Smaller nations that are fighting for their lives and just don't have the same talent level, and battle their way through, will always evoke some level of admiration, and that is a completely different thing.

 

Ironically, we're now actually starting to see these kinds of nations play with far more verve and bravery, and are far more enjoyable to watch.

 

I'm going to remember this tournament mostly because of Georgia, Austria, Turkey and Spain (Spain being the only top team that is really exciting to watch).

 

Back in the day teams that won things were admired largely for the way they went about it too. This dry, dour, fearful, no risk football is the absolute pits.

[huss9]

did southgate actually say he wasnt thinking of making any subs until we went one nil down as he thought we were controlling the game?

shocking. or maybe not so shocking.

 

 

 

Edited July 7 by huss9

[St. Maximin]

Am I alone in thinking the “changed the culture” argument about Southgate is a bit exaggerated? No doubt in my mind he’s had a lot of positive influences, but I don’t get the impression the team hated each other in 2016 and he’s had to work miracles to reverse that in a short time. We had a nice bloke in charge then too; the main issue is we were rubbish but weren’t far from a repeat of Iceland here too. Only takes one game for a tournament to become a disaster. From what I’ve seen there were bigger issues many years before that when club rivalries were bigger. I think we’re also at a stage now where social media and openness over progressive views is making players seem way more connected to fans and therefore the country as a whole. 
 

I really enjoyed 2018 and definitely liked the team a lot more then, but I think being likeable is huge for people that don’t really care as much about football whereas now a lot of fans just want to see us be (or at least try to be) ruthless winners, not brave and likeable underdogs. 

 

 

Edited July 7 by St. Maximin

[Doctor Zaius]

Why was the BBC absolutely desperate to tell us how good England were throughout. Particularly at half time. 

 

We hardly turned it on and we're second best for large periods of the game. We were better than the Slovakia game but not by much. 

 

We're still massively lopsided. Literally have nobody playing on the left. I don't think Bellingham knows where he's supposed to be, Foden is drifting about but he's not really finding pockets of space that you'd expect from someone clearly given a free role. Kane dropping really deep too. 

 

It's the same issues we've had all tournament. If the Dutch have anything about them theyll turn us over imo, but I don't think they're particularly good either.

[Yorkie]

13 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

Why was the BBC absolutely desperate to tell us how good England were throughout. Particularly at half time. 

 

We hardly turned it on and we're second best for large periods of the game. We were better than the Slovakia game but not by much. 

 

We're still massively lopsided. Literally have nobody playing on the left. I don't think Bellingham knows where he's supposed to be, Foden is drifting about but he's not really finding pockets of space that you'd expect from someone clearly given a free role. Kane dropping really deep too. 

 

It's the same issues we've had all tournament. If the Dutch have anything about them theyll turn us over imo, but I don't think they're particularly good either.

 

Yeah, mystified by the BBC's coverage and there was more of the same on The Rest Is Football. We were waiting for a big performance and we got it! Eh? In the first half we looked functional for the first time since game one, and that is the extent of it. Still utterly uninspiring. 

 

Adam Clery - irritating though he is - has done consistently good analysis this tournament. 

 

 

 

[Astroblack]

6 hours ago, Displayname said:

Just read that Southgate feels hurt by the personal attacks.

Baffling to me that someone would even consider taking that job if they are sensitive to comments from English football fans. After a long career in England himself you would think he would have known what he was getting into.

Good tolerance of abuse pretty much comes along with the job description. Hard to feel sorry for a person in such a privileged position in the first place.

Personal attacks? Your being bailed out by quality players who start to perform when you’re out of ideas and just do what they want because they’re in survival mode. 

[The Butcher]

 

[Kid Icarus]

I know it's tongue in cheek on here, but the insecurity of the people who'll actually believe that 

[El Prontonise]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I know it's tongue in cheek on here, but the insecurity of the people who'll actually believe that 

 

Apparently the players who take longer between whistle and starting their run up have better success and all the England players delayed their runs compared to Switzerland.  

 

Gareth knows, as he's setting us up for pens.

 

 

Edited July 7 by El Prontonise

[TaylorJ_01]

 

 

[Heron]

9 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Always found the 'we won so nothing else matters' attitude incredibly shit.

 

I'm sorry but if you can't figure out a way to win by playing the game in a way that is compelling, please just piss off. 

 

It is particularly unacceptable when you have the talent available to produce far better, and excuses keep being made.

 

Smaller nations that are fighting for their lives and just don't have the same talent level, and battle their way through, will always evoke some level of admiration, and that is a completely different thing.

 

Ironically, we're now actually starting to see these kinds of nations play with far more verve and bravery, and are far more enjoyable to watch.

 

I'm going to remember this tournament mostly because of Georgia, Austria, Turkey and Spain (Spain being the only top team that is really exciting to watch).

 

Back in the day teams that won things were admired largely for the way they went about it too. This dry, dour, fearful, no risk football is the absolute pits.

Good post but I don't really agree with the opening statement. When the likes of England and Newcastle have spent 60ish years of winning fuck all, I don't really care how we do it to some degree. Just get it won then we can worry about how we win it next time.

 

However, on the other hand because I deem us to not be performing, that is what makes me completely disengage. I loved Newcastle 2 seasons ago for being super organised and defensive and just winning 1-0s etc. Was absolutely class. Cannot say the same for England where attack should be our strongest form of defence and we're playing an 8 man midfield.

[rgk_lfc]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Good post but I don't really agree with the opening statement. When the likes of England and Newcastle have spent 60ish years of winning fuck all, I don't really care how we do it to some degree. Just get it won then we can worry about how we win it next time.

 

However, on the other hand because I deem us to not be performing, that is what makes me completely disengage. I loved Newcastle 2 seasons ago for being super organised and defensive and just winning 1-0s etc. Was absolutely class. Cannot say the same for England where attack should be our strongest form of defence and we're playing an 8 man midfield.

 

There is a false equivalence when comparing Rafa's systems and Southgate's. Yes, both are defensive, but they could not be more different in terms of sophistication and strategy. Rafa's systems were about making the whole punch above the sum of its parts. Southgate's system, as of now, is anything but that.

 

[KaKa]

11 hours ago, Heron said:

Good post but I don't really agree with the opening statement. When the likes of England and Newcastle have spent 60ish years of winning fuck all, I don't really care how we do it to some degree. Just get it won then we can worry about how we win it next time.

 

However, on the other hand because I deem us to not be performing, that is what makes me completely disengage. I loved Newcastle 2 seasons ago for being super organised and defensive and just winning 1-0s etc. Was absolutely class. Cannot say the same for England where attack should be our strongest form of defence and we're playing an 8 man midfield.

 

If you do win this tournament playing the way you have it will be in spite of Southgate IMO. 

 

It will only further emphasise the talent you have in the team, which is not being maximised, but finds a way in key moments, and all it would make me wonder is, how good your lot could really be, and how much more you could have won.

 

There's so many international power houses that have been below par for a little while now, which has coincided with you bringing through some real talent, and I think you've unfortunately not capitalised on it, because of who you've had in charge.

 

He's been in charge for 8 years now, and you've come into this tournament with some real talent in hand, and all you do is sit deep, play slow super safe football, hoping Bellingham pops up with something, or perhaps Saka, and if that fails then just go to penalties.

 

And if you now somehow manage to lift the cup despite mostly awful performances, it will be celebrated and may even end up with Southgate staying on! I think that's tragic.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

14 hours ago, TaylorJ_01 said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/yfh3Bq9PWF

 

Christ  

[Miercoles]

It's amazing how you've made it to 3 semi finals in 4 tournaments without ever playing a good team 

[Heron]

6 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

If you do win this tournament playing the way you have it will be in spite of Southgate IMO. 

 

It will only further emphasise the talent you have in the team, which is not being maximised, but finds a way in key moments, and all it would make me wonder is, how good your lot could really be, and how much more you could have won.

 

There's so many international power houses that have been below par for a little while now, which has coincided with you bringing through some real talent, and I think you've unfortunately not capitalised on it, because of who you've had in charge.

 

He's been in charge for 8 years now, and you've come into this tournament with some real talent in hand, and all you do is sit deep, play slow super safe football, hoping Bellingham pops up with something, or perhaps Saka, and if that fails then just go to penalties.

 

And if you now somehow manage to lift the cup despite mostly awful performances, it will be celebrated and may even end up with Southgate staying on! I think that's tragic.

Don't disagree.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Miercoles said:

It's amazing how you've made it to 3 semi finals in 4 tournaments without ever playing a good team 

 

That's the English way. 

[Astroblack]

6 hours ago, Miercoles said:

It's amazing how you've made it to 3 semi finals in 4 tournaments without ever playing a good team 

 

Germany in 2021 

[St. Maximin]

2 hours ago, Astroblack said:

 

Germany in 2021 

Belgium too (we lost). 
 

But even if you overlook Southgate’s fortune with the draws, you normally can’t read too much into a manager’s achievements at international level, where you only need to win a handful of games (or draw and win on penalties), against teams that are most likely worse. It’s not like you’re being judged over a full season of 38+ games and at least in the CL you’ll play nearly twice as many matches. 
 

How often are the most successful international managers that highly remembered, at least compared to successful club managers?

[NSG]

We haven’t sold out our allocation for tomorrow. I got an email at 9pm last night offering a ticket to my son who is on 6 caps and the sale closed at 10pm. At 9.58pm there were still a handful remaining.

 

Remarkable really but at over £600 a ticket for the higher end categories it’s ridiculous pricing.

 

Think the final (if we make it) will be similar.

[The Bonk]

£600 To make your eyes bleed. 

[toon25]

Whether England win or not, Southgate is one lucky fuck. 

 

It's says something about the quality of players now being produced in this country that an absolute fucking turnip can monitor them through to later stages of international tournaments.

[Cf]

Spain will utterly twat us if we get that far. 

[El Prontonise]

Southgate said the team came together after that Ed Sheeran performance.

 

[JB]

1 minute ago, El Prontonise said:

Southgate said the team came together after that Ed Sheeran performance.

 

 

Horny