Jonjo Shelvey (now playing for Çaykur Rizespor, on loan from Nottingham Forest)

[Ritchie]

At least he won't be missing the game against Brighton on the 28th.

[Ikon]

'smelly Arab' is what he said apparently (according to someone)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4051438/Jonjo-Shelvey-banned-five-games-fined-100-000-using-insulting-words-Wolves-midfielder-Romain-Saiss.html

[Foluwashola]

'smelly Arab' is what he said apparently.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4051438/Jonjo-Shelvey-banned-five-games-fined-100-000-using-insulting-words-Wolves-midfielder-Romain-Saiss.html

 

Oh, yeah, that's worse.

[Kimbo]

Someone rang Totalsport earlier and said Shelvey (and any footballer who abuses/racially abuses another player) should be banned from football for life, and be hit with a much bigger fine. 

 

This caller said he didn't follow football, and had never been to a match. Guessing he was a mackem.

 

Stuff like that is just people competing to show who is the best person by acting the most outraged.

[Hanshithispantz]

I thought the mail would have been on board with Shelvey tbh. It's obviously indefensible like and I'm pretty amazed he's only got 5 games.

 

Hopefully he comes back better for it.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I was brought up using that expression, and didn't even consider its meaning until my early teens, which is horrible when you think about it. No excuse for it as an adult, like.

[triggs]

That isn't even the right stereotype is it?

[Altamullan]

I might have took a knock to the head like, but I think I've just read someone ask whether being called 'lanky' is as bad as racism.

Good example! As a child being called lanky made me feel self-conscious, ashamed and different: and not in a good way. It provoked so much raw emotion that by mid-late teens to early adulthood, call me that and I would kick the living shit out of you (without much regret in some cases, Hans...).

 

Talking to two friends of different combos of mixed heritage it had the same impact on them as being called their own trigger words. Only difference being, at that age I was more prone to arguing with my fists.

 

Point is any insult which is aimed at something. the person is sensitive about and can't change can be unfair and damaging. You can't dismiss seemingly 'milder' ones using standard 'headline'  E&D criteria, as it the receipt of the insult, the meaning to the insulted, rather than the perception of the person delivering it, which matters.

 

If someone called JJ re his lifelong medical condition, which he was bullied for, then this should be taken into account. IMO.

[Happinesstan]

I might have took a knock to the head like, but I think I've just read someone ask whether being called 'lanky' is as bad as racism.

 

To be fair I think he was asking "Is calling someone a black cunt worse than calling somebody a lanky cunt?"

 

I think it is.

 

But in the context of competitive sport it could possibly be argued that they are equivalent in their intention. *HUGE emphasis on could possibly.

 

However, the reaction if someone were to be suspended and fined for calling somebody a lanky cunt would most probably break the internet.

 

 

[Tiresias]

Any insult can alight to someones insecurities, some don't have historical cultural weight to them, but we could all be kinder. Good insults can be funny cutting and not alight on anything cruel, or in general punch down.

 

if the 'smelly arab' thing is true I'm amazed it was only 5 games. Obviously this is complicated by his insistence he did not say it, if he did though I don't want him at the club.

[Hanshithispantz]

I'll ignore the part where you tried to act hard on the internet like

 

But aye, Shelvey having a lifelong medical condition makes him being called a bald twat a bit different. It would have helped if that was your original point, and not "is calling somebody a 'skin-colour/ethnicity 'expletive, any worse than calling somebody a 'baldy/ginger/working-class/posh/lanky/nationally' expletive?"

 

I don't agree or like bullying, I don't think anyone should be bullied for any reason, whether they're tall, short, black, whatever. But racism isn't 'bullying', it's racism.

[Hanshithispantz]

I might have took a knock to the head like, but I think I've just read someone ask whether being called 'lanky' is as bad as racism.

 

To be fair I think he was asking "Is calling someone a black cunt worse than calling somebody a lanky cunt?"

 

I think it is.

You reckon?

[Happinesstan]

Wow! you went to all that trouble of deleting the pertinent point.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Not sure how many times the thread has to be locked for some people to either go away and learn why their question is ignorant as fuck, or simply stop asking the question in here and type it into Google instead. Same people as before as well.

[Hanshithispantz]

What's the pertinent point? You and your mixed race pals were a bunch of radge cunts because people took the piss out of your height/colour? Ergo it's the same thing?

 

I think I sort of covered that with "racism isn't 'bullying', it's racism".

 

Being called a racial slur isn't necessarily going to hurt more than being made fun of because of the colour of your hair. Nobody is saying that. We're not bairns on a schoolyard here though, it's a grown man on a football pitch using a racial slur. It's obviously not on, and in no way would Jack Colback being called 'ginger' be the same thing. I'm sure you can see that.

 

In any case I don't want the thread to get locked so I'll stop replying. If you disagree then fair enough, most people in 2016 don't though.

[afar]

Obviously we don't know the full story yet, so it's a bit premature to say if this is right or wrong. And we could go on a boring debate on what is offensive and what is not for ever. What we do know is we are without a key player for the next 5 games, imho our best player and not directly replaceable within the current squad.

 

The obvious change is to give Hayden a little more licence to push up and bring in Tiote or Colback (when he's fit), we could also move Clark up the field, drop Diame back or bring Ritchie more central (none of these would be my choice). The positive thing is that it's almost January and we can make a move in the transfer market to cover this (however it may be too late to get them ingrained into the team to be effective). It also forces us into finding out if we can win without Shelvey, that wasn't the case early season, it has to be now as this is a busy period of course.

[Ryan]

'Smelly arab' FFS

 

Totally idiotic if true but if he still denies it the club should back him. A 5 game ban isn't the worst thing in the world looking at our next 5 fixtures though, reckon we'd be OK without him and then get him back for Brighton away.

[Happinesstan]

What's the pertinent point? You and your mixed race pals were a bunch of radge c***s because people took the p*ss out of your height/colour? Ergo it's the same thing?

 

I think I sort of covered that with "racism isn't 'bullying', it's racism".

 

Being called a racial slur isn't necessarily going to hurt more than being made fun of because of the colour of your hair. Nobody is saying that. We're not bairns on a schoolyard here though, it's a grown man on a football pitch using a racial slur. It's obviously not on, and in no way would Jack Colback being called 'ginger' be the same thing. I'm sure you can see that.

 

In any case I don't want the thread to get locked so I'll stop replying. If you disagree then fair enough, most people in 2016 don't though.

 

If I understand you correctly, then we are in full agreement on the issue of racism. Wipe it out. End of discussion.

 

But that does raise the issue (the bit you deleted) of what sort of bullying is acceptable. This is not based on the fact that racism equates to bullying, only to that fact that racism can be very effective AS A FORM OF BULLYING.

 

 

[danny]

Just found out mc donalds cookies are £1.29 Wtf

[SteV]

Just found out mc donalds cookies are £1.29 Wtf

 

How much is their cous cous?

[danny]

You dont wanna know

[Si]

Given-up on trying to catch-up on this thread a few pages back, but in case it is at risk of fizzling-out (God-forbid...) is calling somebody a 'skin-colour/ethnicity 'expletive, any worse than calling somebody a 'baldy/ginger/working-class/posh/lanky/nationally' expletive? All potentially damaging (to self-esteem) all making a judgement on or drawing attention to something the person can't change.

Shepherds pie wanker.

 

[samptime29]

If there is no video of the incident, and Shelvey denies saying owt racist, just seems weird he's been charged.

 

 

[Altamullan]

Given-up on trying to catch-up on this thread a few pages back, but in case it is at risk of fizzling-out (God-forbid...) is calling somebody a 'skin-colour/ethnicity 'expletive, any worse than calling somebody a 'baldy/ginger/working-class/posh/lanky/nationally' expletive? All potentially damaging (to self-esteem) all making a judgement on or drawing attention to something the person can't change.

Shepherds pie w*****.

Peaspudding-guzzling frottager.

[Tiresias]

There is a lower burden of evidence (as has been copiously mentioned in this thread) than in say a criminal case (considerably), so the FA can say guilty if it's on the balance of probabilities rather than beyond reasonable doubt. It would be odd if it was just his word against Shelvey's (or team mate's word if I remember correctly), but knowing what exactly the evidence is is pure speculation at this point