Bimpy474 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. I don't think what he's asking us to do is beyond most of these players, it's the likes of Colback and Dummet who don't have the technical ability to play on the ball. If you try to dominate the ball but don't have 11 players who are comfortable on the ball it will break down. Also don't think he'd persist with instructions that players can't understand. He should be playing a system that gets the best out of the players from his disposal, it's clear our midfielders aren't suited to his 4231 formation without Shelvey. Well this is the trust part. He trust 4-2-3-1 far more than he trust the players. I think it's a simple as that to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leazes_End_Mag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 7 losses is pathetic. Not interested in adapting his style/tactics when things aren't working, which is quite surprising given he's seen as a 'tactical mastermind'. Don't get me started on the subs. He might have improved things off the pitch, but imagine if McClaren/Carver/Pardew produced results like this... For someone with his experience and status he's been very disappointing, imo. 5 points up to Brighton if they win their game in hand. Bang on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We have a squad that for the most part has put us in this league. Every team sees us as a scalp and every manager is going to want to pit themselves against a man who's won things at elite level. We also are in the infancy of a delicate transition from water treaders to something that we can actually buy into and the players are adapting to the same, as is Rafa. As long as the mistakes being made aren't the same Recurrent in 2-3 weeks time then we should always temper this with the previous points. Rafa has apparently repeated a mantra of time needed and unlike previous incumbents it isn't to save their own skin or divert criticism but to have the flexibility to figure out the best plan as he has the capability. I'm curious given what many were saying about not losing a game this season, to how widespread a view that was, because I think given our good league position still and some of our stats that expectations are wildly different. This isn't the premier league but we aren't a stable premier league squad either, we'd probably be able to make up the numbers at this point but we're where we deserve to be and we'll have our moments of pennance. I believe tonight we were largely in control though lacked the killer ability of the likes of shelvey and were genuinely unlucky on occasion without bemoaning luck. Jack colback genuinely f***ed us and it is a concern certain players (colback, gouffran) and methods are being deployed but it's all part of this process. I'm yet to be fully convinced that Rafa will get full backing without dredging that up too much but we are still a delicate giant even in a lesser league. A lot of fragile politics and methods that will take time to fortify and improve on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 5 defeats out of the last 9. Think he needs to spend some serious cash - we have made a lot of changes but it looks like we need more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Today and Sheff Wed were absolutely diabolical and reminiscent of McClaren. Opposition making subs to change the game and us just sitting on 0-0 without any real penetration, only making subs when it's far too late ffs. Picks Colback again and again and still doesn't realise that he's key to our shitty results of late. Wake the fuck up Rafa, all the other teams are winning and your total lack of flexibility is costing us points now. Also, the reliance on Gayle is embarrassing. Strikers on the bench never get more than 5 or 10 minutes and it's so so frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We're playing his way and looking pretty imperious doing it. We just don't have good enough players in key positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Our football is not quick enough, it's quite simple for a well organised side to keep us out if we are not at the very top of our game or if our key performers are not playing or playing well. Nullify Shelvey and Gayle and we are one dimensional and predictable for example and as we huff and puff we eventually run out of ideas. For all our possession, we are a slow paced, one dimensional kind of side and it's effecting some of our players such as Ritchie, Perez and even Diame. If we played a quicker tempo game and used the flanks more, I think we would convert chances into goals even more and nor lose so many, even at the expense of dominating possession which for us is almost 60% nothing football played between the defence and sideways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anyone considered the fact he's used to working with significantly superior players than he has at his disposal at present? Not just in terms of talent, but intelligence and ability to follow tactics and instruction. I bet he's as frustrated with them as any of us. This is obviously giving him the benefit of the doubt but whilst it's easy to say losing Shelvey shouldn't have had such an impact, if he's one of the players Benitez has seen the quality in and has therefore invested time and effort into building the team around him then it's less of a surprise his absence is being felt so much. I rate him far too highly to think that. He's been in football a long time and doesn't miss much from what I've seen. Shelvey is a quality player, but when you consider how many options we have in other areas of the pitch, I'd be surprised if Rafa built his whole game plan on him playing every game. Colback is a shit replacement, and it cost us the game today, no getting around it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Honestly the issues we have are not anything new. Width, creativity, tempo and depth in midfield have been issues since before the season started. I just felt like we'd get away with it for longer than we have, also I fear we won't get the required quality in the said department until next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Our football is not quick enough, it's quite simple for a well organised side to keep us out if we are not at the very top of our game or if our key performers are not playing or playing well. Nullify Shelvey and Gayle and we are one dimensional and predictable for example and as we huff and puff we eventually run out of ideas. For all our possession, we are a slow paced, one dimensional kind of side and it's effecting some of our players such as Ritchie, Perez and even Diame. If we played a quicker tempo game and used the flanks more, I think we would convert chances into goals even more and nor lose so many, even at the expense of dominating possession which for us is almost 60% nothing football played between the defence and sideways. We play at a high tempo until the crunch moment. A lot of 1-2 touch passing in our build up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Our football is not quick enough, it's quite simple for a well organised side to keep us out if we are not at the very top of our game or if our key performers are not playing or playing well. Nullify Shelvey and Gayle and we are one dimensional and predictable for example and as we huff and puff we eventually run out of ideas. For all our possession, we are a slow paced, one dimensional kind of side and it's effecting some of our players such as Ritchie, Perez and even Diame. If we played a quicker tempo game and used the flanks more, I think we would convert chances into goals even more and nor lose so many, even at the expense of dominating possession which for us is almost 60% nothing football played between the defence and sideways. Totally agree. Rafa is a cup specialist and those tactics work fine in a short form KO format. In this league where the finishing is usually abysmal we should have far more confidence in our own strike power and let them loose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Easy to forget it's these tactics that had us as the highest scorers in the country and were winning games for fun upto a month ago. It's a bad spell which we'll get out of. Villa spunked millions on 'guaranteed Championship goals' in the summer and look where they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Easy to forget it's these tactics that had us as the highest scorers in the country and were winning games for fun upto a month ago. It's a bad spell which we'll get out of. Villa spunked millions on 'guaranteed Championship goals' in the summer and look where they are. You're right, it's incredibly easy to forget. There also seems to be this Keegan-esque insistence that we don't need to focus on defending much/have a defence that can cope. We've been a great unit for the first half of the season, top scorers and one of the meanest defences - that's tremendous balance. I don't think we're really good enough at the back, unlike last time, to open up as much. We seem very susceptible to counters whenever we try and chase games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Easy to forget it's these tactics that had us as the highest scorers in the country and were winning games for fun upto a month ago. It's a bad spell which we'll get out of. Villa spunked millions on 'guaranteed Championship goals' in the summer and look where they are. This. We're having a sticky patch, one which was always likely to come at some point but had luckily came now when we're able to bring some new players in. He'll have flaws, he'll make mistakes, but don't forget he's trying to change an entire culture at the club, all whilst playing in a league which is new to him with a lot of new players. We'll still win it imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Imagine the uproar if Pardew/Carver/McClaren had bought the totally out of form Perez on today to change the game and then waited until the dying seconds to throw on Murphy. He may be a fantastic manager but he's getting a lot wrong at the moment and it worries me that he keeps persisting with the same mistakes. With the squad we have in this league there is simply no excuses for the shit that we've had to witness today and in previous weeks. We may have had winning runs but we are still 2nd and ever increasingly in danger of being caught. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPalAl Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Imagine the uproar if Pardew/Carver/McClaren had bought the totally out of form Perez on today to change the game and then waited until the dying seconds to throw on Murphy. He may be a fantastic manager but he's getting a lot wrong at the moment and it worries me that he keeps persisting with the same mistakes. With the squad we have in this league there is simply no excuses for the shit that we've had to witness today and in previous weeks. We may have had winning runs but we are still 2nd and ever increasingly in danger of being caught. This Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 If mcclaren or pardew had come in very late in the season and failed to save us from relegation, before clearing out the squad, and getting us off to the equivalent points total as our last promotion season, I doubt there would be much uproar at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think a big part of the issue is that we're not only dropping points; we're losing to the league's worst teams and playing very poorly in doing so. When we go 1-0 down it's game over and everyone knows it. If we go up and carry that same trend into next season we'll be lucky to get 35 points. It's something to needs to be addressed with a revision of the team's setup when we have the ball and imminent investment in at least two attacking players - not squad players, players who push shite like Alsoran and Colback out of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We lost today because: a.) Colback b.) Shelvey We need to buy a creative midfielder as back up for Shelvey as Collback should never wear the Black and White shirt again. He's cost us a good few points just by being on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We cant spend 3-4 seasons blaming managers for how awful we are and not criticise Benitez for the utter shite hes served up lately. The man is stubborn and has the team playing in one way and one way only, he needs to adapt and be flexible with the expensive squad HE put together. Make subs to influence the game BEFORE we concede would be a great start. Outfoxed by Owen Coyle twice in the space of a few months.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pons Alias Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Lack of experience in the Championship? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We cant spend 3-4 seasons blaming managers for how awful we are and not criticise Benitez for the utter shite hes served up lately. The man is stubborn and has the team playing in one way and one way only, he needs to adapt and be flexible with the expensive squad HE put together. Make subs to influence the game BEFORE we concede would be a great start. The stubbornness with 4231 is getting on my nerves, this for me explains the subs situation as well. His changes are always like for like, until the striker comes on if we are losing. I just think you have to adapt at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Lack of experience in the Championship? I don't think he was expecting the way teams would defend against us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 The most frustrating thing about Rafa was that I don't even think he had to do much different today Just make the subs earlier and I feel we would have won Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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