Dave Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The swings from him being a genius to his tactics and general philosophies on the game being seriously questioned and back again from match to match are both hilarious and quite sad. Not just in this thread, I mean across the forum. Signings, players, formations, the rotation policy; everything. By all accounts we were just as shit today as we were excellent on Tuesday. It's absolutely symptomatic of a team and entire fucking organisation that's still finding its feet with a revolutionised squad under a brand new manager and coaching staff, and an apparent complete change in approach to running a football club. This after literally years and years of deliberate lack of investment, almost 100% lack of ambition and suitably chronic underachievement. It's no coincidence IMO that we've not drawn any games so far. Even when we went down last time things were more stable than they were before Benitez came in for fuck's sake. Obviously nobody is beyond criticism when it's due but though I'm still very confident of promotion, turning this wretched ship around is going to take longer than nine matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelphish Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 He's probably the most successful manager a lot of us will ever see at NUFC. He can shit in the centre circle for all I care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 There's no way of doing it that won't bother some players That's another thing, like. There's no managerial style that won't have an overall negative effect on certain personality types, especially in football. Benitez's polar opposite is probably someone like Ancelotti. He trusts his players on and off the field implicitly and allows them to express themselves as opposed to being part of a controlled and overall tactically restrictive setup. Obviously this works with the top players who can be trusted to maintain a professional and intelligent approach to the game but it would probably struggle with middle-of-the-road shit. Likewise, Benitez won't ever really have success at the top clubs because players at the very top of the game tend not to react well to absolute autocracy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 We've lost the second half record though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Can't say i'm a massive fan of some of the things Rafa does with the team selections, yet it's won him multiple trophies in different countries. It's something we have to get used to, it's just him and why he's so successful. Doesn't mean you shouldn't say when you think he got it wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubestationatmidnight Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Rafas got this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Can't say i'm a massive fan of some of the things Rafa does with the team selections, yet it's won him multiple trophies in different countries. It's something we have to get used to, it's just him and why he's so successful. Doesn't mean you shouldn't say when you think he got it wrong. Very true, no one should be beyond criticism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The swings from him being a genius to his tactics and general philosophies on the game being seriously questioned and back again from match to match are both hilarious and quite sad. Not just in this thread, I mean across the forum. Signings, players, formations, the rotation policy; everything. By all accounts we were just as shit today as we were excellent on Tuesday. It's absolutely symptomatic of a team and entire fucking organisation that's still finding its feet with a revolutionised squad under a brand new manager and coaching staff, and an apparent complete change in approach to running a football club. This after literally years and years of deliberate lack of investment, almost 100% lack of ambition and suitably chronic underachievement. It's no coincidence IMO that we've not drawn any games so far. Even when we went down last time things were more stable than they were before Benitez came in for fuck's sake. Obviously nobody is beyond criticism when it's due but though I'm still very confident of promotion, turning this wretched ship around is going to take longer than nine matches. Tremendous post Dave. Proper nailed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Can't say i'm a massive fan of some of the things Rafa does with the team selections, yet it's won him multiple trophies in different countries. It's something we have to get used to, it's just him and why he's so successful. Doesn't mean you shouldn't say when you think he got it wrong. Very true, no one should be beyond criticism. Except me....obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Can't say i'm a massive fan of some of the things Rafa does with the team selections, yet it's won him multiple trophies in different countries. It's something we have to get used to, it's just him and why he's so successful. Doesn't mean you shouldn't say when you think he got it wrong. Very true, no one should be beyond criticism. Except me....obviously. Quite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The swings from him being a genius to his tactics and general philosophies on the game being seriously questioned and back again from match to match are both hilarious and quite sad. Not just in this thread, I mean across the forum. Signings, players, formations, the rotation policy; everything. By all accounts we were just as s*** today as we were excellent on Tuesday. It's absolutely symptomatic of a team and entire f***ing organisation that's still finding its feet with a revolutionised squad under a brand new manager and coaching staff, and an apparent complete change in approach to running a football club. This after literally years and years of deliberate lack of investment, almost 100% lack of ambition and suitably chronic underachievement. It's no coincidence IMO that we've not drawn any games so far. Even when we went down last time things were more stable than they were before Benitez came in for f***'s sake. Obviously nobody is beyond criticism when it's due but though I'm still very confident of promotion, turning this wretched ship around is going to take longer than nine matches. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160917/67079574a85a87b5de972d29bb243a2e.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The swings from him being a genius to his tactics and general philosophies on the game being seriously questioned and back again from match to match are both hilarious and quite sad. Not just in this thread, I mean across the forum. Signings, players, formations, the rotation policy; everything. By all accounts we were just as shit today as we were excellent on Tuesday. It's absolutely symptomatic of a team and entire fucking organisation that's still finding its feet with a revolutionised squad under a brand new manager and coaching staff, and an apparent complete change in approach to running a football club. This after literally years and years of deliberate lack of investment, almost 100% lack of ambition and suitably chronic underachievement. It's no coincidence IMO that we've not drawn any games so far. Even when we went down last time things were more stable than they were before Benitez came in for fuck's sake. Obviously nobody is beyond criticism when it's due but though I'm still very confident of promotion, turning this wretched ship around is going to take longer than nine matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatwax Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Sooner he realises Perez is utter dogshit, the better. http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/no/754.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 His philosophies and tactics aren't "being seriously questioned", don't go overboard. If someone thinks he's got something wrong it's fair enough to discuss it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The swings from him being a genius to his tactics and general philosophies on the game being seriously questioned and back again from match to match are both hilarious and quite sad. Not just in this thread, I mean across the forum. Signings, players, formations, the rotation policy; everything. By all accounts we were just as s*** today as we were excellent on Tuesday. It's absolutely symptomatic of a team and entire f***ing organisation that's still finding its feet with a revolutionised squad under a brand new manager and coaching staff, and an apparent complete change in approach to running a football club. This after literally years and years of deliberate lack of investment, almost 100% lack of ambition and suitably chronic underachievement. It's no coincidence IMO that we've not drawn any games so far. Even when we went down last time things were more stable than they were before Benitez came in for f***'s sake. Obviously nobody is beyond criticism when it's due but though I'm still very confident of promotion, turning this wretched ship around is going to take longer than nine matches. Nailed it. Absolutely spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDonis Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I'm sure you've probably had your fair share of LFC fans coming on here posting Rafa stuff, so apologies. I'm a huge fan of his (and have a familial connection with NUFC) so I was glad to see him wind up there. He will do really well for you. But after you spanked QPR the other night - for which, thanks, I live in West London surrounded by Rs fans - I *knew* you wouldn't get a result today. I don't what it is about Rafa, but his teams often follow a thrashing with a poor result. I sometimes wonder whether his need to play down a good result, and warn against complacency, can undo some of the momentum that comes from such a result, rather than allow the players to bask in it for a bit and ride a hot hand. His teams also have the habit of throwing in a real stinking performance when you least expect it, with no real explanation. I can remember us being beaten 2-0 by Boro four days after beating Real at the Bernabeu in 2009. It was Rafa in excelsis. A performance of the highest quality, a tactical masterclass, followed by a a rancid performance out of nowhere. Then we went on a massive run and nearly won the league, but that result was costly as hell in the final shake up. Similar things happened at Napoli too. Losing 3-0 to Atalanta after a seven or eight game unbeaten run that effectively ended. I remember his Chelsea smashing Villa 8-0 but then losing 1-0 at QPR, who were bottom. It was often a criticism levelled at him that his Liverpool and Napoli teams drew too many games, and there's something in that. But for me at LFC it was often the inexplicable losses that cost us, particularly in the middle of a run of otherwise good results. I have a theory or two as to why but it's always been a bit weird, as he gets so much else right. Is it even down to him, given all players have a tendency to be complacent after a series of good results or a thrashing? But there does seem to be a pattern. I still think you'll be fine as the wins will outweigh these types of losses and he'll be great in the bigger matches against rivals. Be worried v Burton at home though. I also think you'll murder Wolves in the cup on Tuesday. Smashing them a few days after losing them to would also be peak Rafa. Sorry for butting in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Some interesting comments in his nufctv interview. Pretty much said we tried to do the difficult things rather than the simple and put ourselves under pressure. I know nobody's going to come out and say we were complacent but that comment is somewhat damning, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I really enjoy the insight from people who've properly experienced Rafa and know what he's about. We're extremely fortunate to have him and he's the best manager we could ever hope to have, but he is human and our setup at home that isn't ideal at the moment. Unlike the previous fraudsters that we've had however I have no doubts he's already identified what went wrong and will sort it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Some interesting comments in his nufctv interview. Pretty much said we tried to do the difficult things rather than the simple and put ourselves under pressure. I know nobody's going to come out and say we were complacent but that comment is somewhat damning, IMO. Wonder if he's including himself with that comment ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I'm sure you've probably had your fair share of LFC fans coming on here posting Rafa stuff, so apologies. I'm a huge fan of his (and have a familial connection with NUFC) so I was glad to see him wind up there. He will do really well for you. But after you spanked QPR the other night - for which, thanks, I live in West London surrounded by Rs fans - I *knew* you wouldn't get a result today. I don't what it is about Rafa, but his teams often follow a thrashing with a poor result. I sometimes wonder whether his need to play down a good result, and warn against complacency, can undo some of the momentum that comes from such a result, rather than allow the players to bask in it for a bit and ride a hot hand. His teams also have the habit of throwing in a real stinking performance when you least expect it, with no real explanation. I can remember us being beaten 2-0 by Boro four days after beating Real at the Bernabeu in 2009. It was Rafa in excelsis. A performance of the highest quality, a tactical masterclass, followed by a a rancid performance out of nowhere. Then we went on a massive run and nearly won the league, but that result was costly as hell in the final shake up. Similar things happened at Napoli too. Losing 3-0 to Atalanta after a seven or eight game unbeaten run that effectively ended. I remember his Chelsea smashing Villa 8-0 but then losing 1-0 at QPR, who were bottom. It was often a criticism levelled at him that his Liverpool and Napoli teams drew too many games, and there's something in that. But for me at LFC it was often the inexplicable losses that cost us, particularly in the middle of a run of otherwise good results. I have a theory or two as to why but it's always been a bit weird, as he gets so much else right. Is it even down to him, given all players have a tendency to be complacent after a series of good results or a thrashing? But there does seem to be a pattern. I still think you'll be fine as the wins will outweigh these types of losses and he'll be great in the bigger matches against rivals. Be worried v Burton at home though. I also think you'll murder Wolves in the cup on Tuesday. Smashing them a few days after losing them to would also be peak Rafa. Sorry for butting in. You didn't butt in and good input. At Liverpool I know he changed the team all the time, was he always changing the pattern aswell, even after good results ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The bottom line is that we are by far the biggest club in the Championship, support, revenue, the lot. We have also just bought more players and spent more money than all of our competitors. We should walk this league, certainly most people on here seem to think so, we have the biggest squad, most of the best players and Rafa Benitez as Manager. And yet we've lost 3 games including 2 at home already, we look fragile if we go behind, nobody including the players has any idea who will be playing in the next game, we have no idea of what are best starting 11 are, and we look no more likely to be automatically promoted than Huddersfield or Norwich. So what's up? Teething problems or something much more worrying? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 No offence but that's mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDonis Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 You didn't butt in and good input. At Liverpool I know he changed the team all the time, was he always changing the pattern aswell, even after good results ? Re rotation, there were two schools of thought on it among LFC fans. One, that it motivates players because they know they'll be involved. The other that it demotivates them because no matter how well they play they might end up bring rotated. For me, it worked. So often we finished the season so strong. But then you get the pang that there were a few too many missed opportunities earlier on. But then we might have won those games early season and run out of steam.... I do think his methods did sometimes jar with some 'superstar' footballers. But with a group of players hungry to achieve, like you should have, they should work a treat. No one should doubt him, given his experience. No one is going to turn around and say 'But Ancelloti said this' and 'Mourinho did this' as has been the case with him elsewhere. And, more importantly, he makes players better, which intelligent players will recognise. So many coaches make players worse or they don't improve. Not Rafa. Though he can be brutal as fuck when it comes to binning players off. As for the pattern, it stays the same. (but there is pattern within patterns. There's the famous story of when Ranieri took over at Valencia from him, and he told them to 'defend like Benitez told you.' One of the defenders said, 'But we had five different ways of defending.') But the 4-2-3-1 is sacrosanct (though he'll say with good reason, there are variations within that system). Frustrating as fuck for some who want two strikers up top, but it won't happen. There might be two strikers on the pitch but one will be wide. One wide man will be a quick attacking player, the other will be someone like Dirk Kuyt, out of position nominally, but works his nuts off for the team, tracks back, gets goals. There'll be an unflashy holding mid next to someone who can hit passes. People will clamour for a change sand say 'Put out our best team, forget about how our oppo play and smash them.' Rafa will not do that. He will stick to his system, press high up the pitch, control the game. He hates it when they lose control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Wait he's been criticised? Jesus Christ I'm glad I stayed out of the match day thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubestationatmidnight Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Thanks for that. A good read and we can relate to most of that already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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