Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... It's about improving and developing further and two up front would suit our play better and yield us better returns on our dominance and possession. I'm not at all convinced it'd help improve us. We've played some absolutely cracking football this season, someone even put up a YT with all of our attacking moves and we're worlds apart from anything since Bobby. But we're also solid, I think Rafa knows we're not individually excellent at the defensive side of the game and has planned accordingly (with next year in mind). How many games are you basing our possessiong game on, btw? Didn't you see Brentford, Norwich, Ipswich etc.? We've absolutely cut some teams apart, but we're not always going to play like that. Rafa, I think, knew Forest were decent on the counter with their wing backs so opted for something to work holes in their back 5. That seems to be his thing for away games, controlling the tempo above all else, and it's worked an absolute charm. We do play some good football, but we are not very attacking in the final 3rd despite huge amounts of possession and I genuinely feel some of our key players are underused somewhat in Rafa's system. Ritchie for example sent in a few good crosses the other night, but there was nothing in there so they didn't come off. You could look at that and think he shouldn't be sending them in, but that's his game or should be. Stick an extra striker in there and we could get all kinds of joy from having a Ritchie in our side. At current he's basically a hard working wide man and he's much better than that. He has admitted himsel recently he hasn't been happy with how he has played. Some of that is down to the system. Shelvey and Hayden pretty much play on top of the defence and Gayle can be left isolated as a result. Perez as the so-called number 10 should be making things work better in that regard, but he's not a 10 and if he was, its not working effectively. We are kind of like the 5th placed Pardew team in that we are winning and doing well, but its not entirely convincing. Not to the eye anyway on critical analysis. Furthermore, and this seems lost on people analysing Rafa's tactics. Rafa prepares the team based on how the opposition play. We are tailored to combat how the opposition are set up etc. Trouble is, for example Forest when they took to the field against us played totally different to how they have all season against other teams. They were shit scared of us and conceded possession, territory etc. Even with 10 men they sat back and we dominated. I guess what I'm trying to say is we are just not flexible and seem resigned to playing a certain way regardless when I personally feel, in this division, if we just threw the kitchen sink at teams especially at home, results like Wolves, Huddersfield and Blackburn just wouldn't happen. Sorry, but losing to such dross at home, is kind of unacceptable. That is if you want to win the league. I'm going to be hard on Rafa's Championship Newcastle because we have one of the best managers in world football, 52K fans almost every home game, sides that are shit scared of us and have a team that really should be more than a mere point or two ahead of Brighton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 As if we haven't played better football than we did overall during that season when we ended up in 5th :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 What in the actual fuck are some people on these days? Periods? Booze? Industrial grade ammonia? N-O is like the twilight zone at the moment. I really don't get it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm in two minds about going 4-4-2. Short term it'd improve us, I'm convinced of it. However, by persisting with the current system Rafa will ensure that next year when we're (hopefully) in the Premiership our squad will be fully comfortable with the style and system Rafa wants them to play. It's frustrating at the moment, no doubt. Probably the sensible thing in the long term though. Absolute priority next summer has to be getting the best #10 we can attract, the system will look much better when we have that and a better option on the left than Gouffran. Exactly how I feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm in two minds about going 4-4-2. Short term it'd improve us, I'm convinced of it. However, by persisting with the current system Rafa will ensure that next year when we're (hopefully) in the Premiership our squad will be fully comfortable with the style and system Rafa wants them to play. It's frustrating at the moment, no doubt. Probably the sensible thing in the long term though. Absolute priority next summer has to be getting the best #10 we can attract, the system will look much better when we have that and a better option on the left than Gouffran. Exactly how I feel. same, though i'd add we need to upgrade gayle as well as just get a new #10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm in two minds about going 4-4-2. Short term it'd improve us, I'm convinced of it. However, by persisting with the current system Rafa will ensure that next year when we're (hopefully) in the Premiership our squad will be fully comfortable with the style and system Rafa wants them to play. It's frustrating at the moment, no doubt. Probably the sensible thing in the long term though. Absolute priority next summer has to be getting the best #10 we can attract, the system will look much better when we have that and a better option on the left than Gouffran. Exactly how I feel. same, though i'd add we need to upgrade gayle as well as just get a new #10 Yep. As much as I like gayle, we'll need a better centre forward should we go up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I don't think 442 would necessarily improve us, I'm not convinced we have the bodies in midfield to just play a two. Less of a concern in this division maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm in two minds about going 4-4-2. Short term it'd improve us, I'm convinced of it. However, by persisting with the current system Rafa will ensure that next year when we're (hopefully) in the Premiership our squad will be fully comfortable with the style and system Rafa wants them to play. It's frustrating at the moment, no doubt. Probably the sensible thing in the long term though. Absolute priority next summer has to be getting the best #10 we can attract, the system will look much better when we have that and a better option on the left than Gouffran. Exactly how I feel. same, though i'd add we need to upgrade gayle as well as just get a new #10 Yep. As much as I like gayle, we'll need a better centre forward should we go up. keep gayle as backup for that spot probably with armstrong, sell mitro and buy a top quality (within reason) mobile striker who gets down the channels and has decent pace add a canny #10 to that and a better midfielder than colback and we'll be golden considering how good rafa obviously is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Kid Icarus and HandsDownHisPants, and others seem very adamant that Rafa will never play two-strikers/4-4-2. Whilst, I tend to believe what people do rather than what they say, this interview by Ian Holloway in August is worth a re-watch. Basically, he says he expects the players to know one system really well, but will play others, if indicated/to fit in key players (that's my reading anyway). Relevant bit about formations is about half-way through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Armstrong should be out on loan again if we go up. No way should he be in a PL squad yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Cant ever see Armstrong being good enough for PL personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Kid Icarus and HandsDownHisPants, and others seem very adamant that Rafa will never play two-strikers/4-4-2. Whilst, I tend to believe what people do rather than what they say, this interview by Ian Holloway in August is worth a re-watch. Basically, he says he expects the players to know one system really well, but will play others, if indicated/to fit in key players (that's my reading anyway). Relevant bit about formations is about half-way through. Err, I've never said this like He literally said a week or so ago that he was wanting to try Mitrovic out with Gayle. My issue, if I've got one, would be people saying he's too reserved and that we'd be blowing teams out the water if we switched to 4-4-2. This despite us being top of the league and the league's highest scorers playing the system that Rafa's played since Valencia (?) It's always worked for him and if he thinks it's what we're best playing with at the moment I'm not going to argue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Armstrong should be out on loan again if we go up. No way should he be in a PL squad yet. the reason i mentioned armstrong was that if we sold mitro and splashed on a top quality gayle upgrade with gayle as backup we'd still need a 3rd striker in reserve, suppose riviere might come back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Armstrong should be out on loan again if we go up. No way should he be in a PL squad yet. the reason i mentioned armstrong was that if we sold mitro and splashed on a top quality gayle upgrade with gayle as backup we'd still need a 3rd striker in reserve, suppose riviere might come back Buy another one. Armstrong can't be third choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Cant ever see Armstrong being good enough for PL personally. I actually agree with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Armstrong should be out on loan again if we go up. No way should he be in a PL squad yet. the reason i mentioned armstrong was that if we sold mitro and splashed on a top quality gayle upgrade with gayle as backup we'd still need a 3rd striker in reserve, suppose riviere might come back Buy another one. Armstrong can't be third choice. Hm. Playing 1 up top it'll be a struggle keeping 3 happy tbph, maybe look for a Gouffran replacement that can play up top if necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Cant ever see Armstrong being good enough for PL personally. I actually agree with this. Same here. Hope I am proved wrong to be honest but I can't see it. Kid Icarus and HandsDownHisPants, and others seem very adamant that Rafa will never play two-strikers/4-4-2. Whilst, I tend to believe what people do rather than what they say, this interview by Ian Holloway in August is worth a re-watch. Basically, he says he expects the players to know one system really well, but will play others, if indicated/to fit in key players (that's my reading anyway). Relevant bit about formations is about half-way through. Err, I've never said this like He literally said a week or so ago that he was wanting to try Mitrovic out with Gayle. My issue, if I've got one, would be people saying he's too reserved and that we'd be blowing teams out the water if we switched to 4-4-2. This despite us being top of the league and the league's highest scorers playing the system that Rafa's played since Valencia (?) It's always worked for him and if he thinks it's what we're best playing with at the moment I'm not going to argue. I'm sick of hearing people go on about wanting us to play 2 up front despite us being top of the league and been on 9 game winning runs people want us to totally forget the way we've played all season and change the formation. Mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 People on here love running down young players without giving them a chance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 People on here love running down young players without giving them a chance Worse when they come through the academy imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Nah it's not at all, it only appears that way because we haven't developed many decent players through the academy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 People on here love running down young players without giving them a chance Or perhaps they just realise when a player maybe won't make it at the top level rather than just having blind hope because he "a local lad"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 People on here love running down young players without giving them a chance Or perhaps they just realise when a player maybe won't make it at the top level rather than just having blind hope because he "a local lad"? Aye, "blind hope" in a lad who's 19, has scored loads of goals already at an adult level and consistently scores lots of goals for England underage teams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 People on here love running down young players without giving them a chance Or perhaps they just realise when a player maybe won't make it at the top level rather than just having blind hope because he "a local lad"? Aye, "blind hope" in a lad who's 19, has scored loads of goals already at an adult level and consistently scores lots of goals for England underage teams Adam Armstrong will never be a regular player in the Premier League. Save this post for 5/7/9 years time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Carroll didn't look like he had Premier League ability until 20. Obviously slightly different in that he's physically a freak, but still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 People on here love running down young players without giving them a chance Or perhaps they just realise when a player maybe won't make it at the top level rather than just having blind hope because he "a local lad"? Aye, "blind hope" in a lad who's 19, has scored loads of goals already at an adult level and consistently scores lots of goals for England underage teams Adam Armstrong will never be a regular player in the Premier League. Save this post for 5/7/9 years time. You're probably right because we never seem to give young players a chance unless there's an injury crisis anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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