Dr Venkman Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 There's nowt romantic about my suggesting Rafa can keep us up BTW, I don't fancy him at all. It's pragmatism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 I love the geezer for his time here, but some of his decisions at Everton have been utterly bizarre, the biggest been choosing to join them despite massive fan backlash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, TRon said: Better football to watch long term. We haven't been watching the same team in that case but if we're taking the long view, who do you think stands a better chance of winning something? Because that's the criteria that should really inform your opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Just now, Thomson Mouse said: In a nutshell it's condescending bollocks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 I think it's easy to forget that Rafa really, really struggled to keep us in the league for large parts of the season and that those same players he struggled to do it with are still here and even shitter. Totally get why some would want to twist rather than stick with Howe, but our situations aren't the same as when he was last here and I don't think he's the silver bullet any more than new signings are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Not sure Rafa's style is really ideal for a championship season when you should have the best squad. Think there was times last time where we risked a lot of games by giving inferior teams far too much respect. It worked in the end but a lot of the time it wasn't pretty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Just now, Dr Venkman said: it's condescending bollocks It’s not at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Dr Venkman said: it's condescending bollocks Not really. It’s pragmatism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said: I agree to a point. But we're in deep, deep shit as a club. If it was June and we were looking at a new season in the premier league I wouldn't be arguing for him, it's the context of the relegation battle and the probable championship season. Absolutely true for both posts. I don’t think Rafa would be who we want long term, because KI is right, eventually we want to build a much more progressive brand of football. But despite the money, we are absolutely fucked right now. We need a more pragmatic approach to survival and getting at least some of the basics right, which we aren’t doing at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Just now, Thomson Mouse said: It’s not at all Which bit did you really like then? The obvious bit about us getting relegated when he had 8 games to keep us up or the bit where he told us we're not living inside a computer game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: So would you have chosen or choose Howe as that man ? No, but that ship has sailed imo. As soon as we got Howe, I drew a line under Rafa and would have done the same with my other choice Emery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMLeazesender Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 I have absolutely nothing to back this up but I wonder if the for/against Rafa has anything to do with fans ages. I'm thinking maybe older fans are against Rafa coming back and younger ones are in favour of a Rafa return. Like I say, nothing to back this up.... and neither is right or wrong......it was just a random thought and we are all entitled to our opinion regardless of age or anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said: No, but that ship has sailed imo. As soon as we got Howe, I drew a line under Rafa and would have done the same with my other choice Emery. Agreed, however I’m thinking purely who I feel would give us a better chance over the next few months at keeping us up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, DMLeazesender said: I have absolutely nothing to back this up but I wonder if the for/against Rafa has anything to do with fans ages. I'm thinking maybe older fans are against Rafa coming back and younger ones are in favour of a Rafa return. Like I say, nothing to back this up.... and neither is right or wrong......it was just a random thought and we are all entitled to our opinion regardless of age or anything else. I resent being called older Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said: Which bit did you really like then? The obvious bit about us getting relegated when he had 8 games to keep us up or the bit where he told us we're not living inside a computer game? He said that he doesn't blame Benitez for that nor should. It was 10 games fwiw. But he also did struggle at times in his two years in the PL with largely the same squad of players. 4 wins in 24 in 2017-18, no wins in the first 10 losing all home games in that 10 in 2018-19. Its the same squad who are older and have regressed, plus we have 2 weeks of the transfer window left. I did fear that this would happen as @reefatoon said back in early December. Benitez' shadow is so big over this fanbase that it adds pressure onto a manager who didn't even succeed him and is trying to rectify 2 and a half years of a complete lack of effort and nous in coaching a PL football team. Should Howe be doing better? In terms of results, probably yeah. But if you take a step back look at the games in isolation you can take positives. Aside from these last 2 games. These last 2 after the great performance v Man Utd following a decent break should give the owners the onus to splash and get the players we desperately need, rather than getting rid of a manager who has only had 10 games in charge. Edited January 16, 2022 by HaydnNUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: That something needs to be recognising the shortcomings in the squad and rectifying them by paying for the top targets. Not hanging onto the romanticisation of a manager who was last here 2 and a half years ago and has failed in both his jobs since in that time. I'm not hanging into any if that. Rafa has worked at Madrid, Napoli and Liverpool. He will have a lot of ideas that could help any club tbh. He will have extensive contacts in the game too. He could no doubt help us in numerous ways but the main one would be identifying a midfielder, defender and a forward. Getting a proper scouting network in would be the best bet but I get the feeling the people running the club aren't too comfortable in picking that stuff out and won't be until the summer when we bring in our DoF. Hence I'm at the point of 'bring any cunt in who might have a clue' The fact we can all see the glaring shortcomings of the squad yet we cannot seem to identify any solutions to them should be worrying© to anyone. It's not going to miraculously fix itself. Edited January 16, 2022 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Just now, SUPERTOON said: Agreed, however I’m thinking purely who I feel would give us a better chance over the next few months at keeping us up. So difficult to answer, but what I'd also say is that despite Howe not getting us hitting the heights we'd like, instant impact is definitely not one of Rafa's strengths, we saw that in 15/16 and then we saw how our full seasons with him peaked at the very end after months of the players having his demands drilled into them. He's much more a project man, than a galvaniser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMLeazesender Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Vinny Green Balls said: I resent being called older Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said: I'm not hanging into any if that. Rafa has worked at Madrid, Napoli and Liverpool. He will have a lot of ideas that could help any club tbh. He will have extensive contacts in the game too. He could no doubt help us in numerous ways but the main one would be identifying a midfielder, defender and a forward. Getting a proper scouting network in would be the best bet but I get the feeling the people running the club aren't too comfortable in picking that stuff out and won't be until the summer when we bring in our DoF. Hence I'm at the ooint of 'bring any cunt in who might have a clue' The fact we can all see the glaring shortcomings of the squad yet we cannot seem to identify any solutions to them should be worrying© to anyone. It's not going to miraculously fix itself. I agree with the being at the point of bringing in any cunt tbf. Bringing Benitez in in any capacity undermines Howe, as the moment bad results occur as they are at the moment the speculation will be 'will Benitez succeed Howe, ready made replacement to come in already there' that wouldn't be there with any other CEO or director. The owners just need to spend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said: So difficult to answer, but what I'd also say is that despite Howe not getting us hitting the heights we'd like, instant impact is definitely not one of Rafa's strengths, we saw that in 15/16 and then we saw how our full seasons with him peaked at the very end after months of the players having his demands drilled into them. He's much more a project man, than a galvaniser. Also I'm not sure he'd be welcomed back by a lot of these players. Some of the worse ones who's failings got covered by defending in numbers maybe, but most of them I would guess didn't really enjoy his management style. Would they really pull their fingers out at this stage of the season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: So difficult to answer, but what I'd also say is that despite Howe not getting us hitting the heights we'd like, instant impact is definitely not one of Rafa's strengths, we saw that in 15/16 and then we saw how our full seasons with him peaked at the very end after months of the players having his demands drilled into them. He's much more a project man, than a galvaniser. Howe could be exactly the same, but there won't be many willing to give him that chance. That's not saying that Howe is immune from criticism, but it's way too early to be taking about moving him on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paullow Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 It's not like for like, as the team was better then, although you could also say so were our rivals, but Rafa came in with 10 games to go, and ended up with 13 points, a +4 GD, 1.3 ppg which averages out at 49.4 points per season - he just came in too late, but while a couple of disappointing results, he did well in the short time he was here, especially as 3 of his 10 games included the future champions Leicester away in his first match, as well as draws at home to City and away to Liverpool. Howe, in contrast, has had Burnley, Norwich, Brentford, Watford at home, bread and butter stuff where you'd hope for 9 or 10 points just to stay on course for a modest season. Obviously a couple of unfortunate issues like contracting covid, and Clark being an idiot, but 1 win from those 4 isn't great, and then the hammering in the others as you would expect, but 1 win in 9, and an embarrassing cup exit, 7 points from 9 games (29.5 points per season) and -11 GD - their respective initial periods have been very different. It's never going to happen anyway, and I'd still be inclined to keep Howe, and stick with him if we go down, but I also do think there would be more chance of actually getting the 'bounce' we never really got, certainly results-wise, even if performances and mindset are a little better, if we were to bring Rafa in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Bloody hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Really don’t see that working out well. Might have a short-lived bounce but I’d be more than happy for him to go there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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