Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Yorkie]

Mitrovic played 29 times in the Championship season and didn't pull up any trees; Armstrong spent the season starting for Barnsley; for Toney read Shrewsbury + Scunthorpe.

 

Meanwhile Gayle, Murphy (both who he signed) and Perez led the line and scored 41 between them. 

 

Mbabu you can have. 

[bowlingcrofty]

Massive fan of people now saying that they had gripes with Rafa when he is literally the sole reason we came back up, and was a major player in the initial workings of the takeover.

 

Backstabbing bastards

[St. Maximin]

4 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Mitrovic played 29 times in the Championship season and didn't pull up any trees; Armstrong spent the season starting for Barnsley; for Toney read Shrewsbury + Scunthorpe.

 

Meanwhile Gayle, Murphy (both who he signed) and Perez led the line and scored 41 between them. 

 

Mbabu you can have. 

That Mitrovic has been ridiculously prolific in that league ever since when played as the main man does raise questions over Rafa's handling of him, but saying that he had Gayle for most of the season and he was excellent so with hindsight that didn't really matter.

 

I still don't think we were overly impressive that year given the squad and our struggles to get there. However, finishing 10th the following year was brilliant and Rafa's standout year here imo.

[Deuce]

 feels like some are being contrarian for the sake of it. We won the Champo in our first season back and finished 9 points above 3rd, promoted with ease.

 

*sees Rafa struggling with Everton* “Not surprised really, he only *checks notes* won the Championship and *checks notes* took us to 10th in our first season back in the Prem.”

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Tomato Deuce

[jackyboy]

I remember reading something about Mitro where he told Rafa that he didn't want to use his energy up defending and wanted to use it for attacking. Didn't go down well with Rafa and I think that saw him out the door. Problem is that when you have a side with so many mediocre players the only way you can try to offset that is by work rate and organisation.

If we dropped everybody that people on here  want dropped we wouldn't be able to get a team out

[LV]

26 minutes ago, The Butcher said:

Absolutely loved Rafa here, but I must admit that love faded quite a bit when he went to China. 

 

 

 

 

 

Why??

 

The fella wanted to work and there were no other job offers about 

 

What’s wrong with that?

[St. Maximin]

1 minute ago, Tomato Deuce said:

 feels like you’re being contrarian for the sake of it. We won the Champo and finished 9 points above 3rd, promoted with ease.

Would be a bit boring if we all agreed, no? I remember for a while we couldn't be completely confident of automatic promotion - think after we lost to Ipswich it felt like that while Brighton had gone and secured it. Huddersfield fell apart once we pulled away and Brighton monumentally choked when they should have wrapped the league up, only for us to take advantage and win with a few minutes to spare.

 

With that squad you'd expect comfortable promotion but the final stats didn't quite tell the full story.

 

So not really being contrarian for the sake of it 

[Yorkie]

There were a few stinkers in the Championship season but I think we might have been spoiled with the Hughton one, which was an anomaly. Didn't we get the second highest points tally ever for the division that year? 

 

When you consider all the summer outgoings, this was our starting position squad-wise:

 

Elliot

Darlow

 

Dummett

Lascelles

Mbemba

Haidara

Good

Findlay

Sterry

 

Colback

Anita

Shelvey

Aarons

Gouffran

Sammy

Barlaser

Ben El-Mhanni

 

Perez

Mitrovic

 

... and we won the league. Aye there was money to spend but it was spent incredibly well. 

[Deuce]

Just now, St. Maximin said:

Would be a bit boring if we all agreed, no? I remember for a while we couldn't be completely confident of automatic promotion - think after we lost to Ipswich it felt like that while Brighton had gone and secured it. Huddersfield fell apart once we pulled away and Brighton monumentally choked when they should have wrapped the league up, only for us to take advantage and win with a few minutes to spare.

 

With that squad you'd expect comfortable promotion but the final stats didn't quite tell the full story.

 

So not really being contrarian for the sake of it 

What difference would it have made had we won the league with 115 points instead of 94?

 

And like I said, we *were* comfortably promoted. We finished 9 points above the playoffs zone.

[TRon]

Just now, St. Maximin said:

Would be a bit boring if we all agreed, no? I remember for a while we couldn't be completely confident of automatic promotion - think after we lost to Ipswich it felt like that while Brighton had gone and secured it. Huddersfield fell apart once we pulled away and Brighton monumentally choked when they should have wrapped the league up, only for us to take advantage and win with a few minutes to spare.

 

With that squad you'd expect comfortable promotion but the final stats didn't quite tell the full story.

 

So not really being contrarian for the sake of it 

 

That's how I remember it as well, always felt we should have walked that league, but like with all Rafa sides, it was a safety first approach, and tbf it got us promoted. But you always felt like we should have been drubbing at least a few of the lower half teams. But Rafa has his preferred formations and styles, and he tends to stick with them regardless of who you are up against. 

 

I guess that's good in some ways as everyone knows their role, but on the other hand you miss out on some big win opportunities. 

[Chicane]

I think he probably saw the big offer from China, saw there weren't any offers in the Prem and just said "alright fuck it, might as well go and get a bag"

[Billy Pilgrim]

14 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

There were a few stinkers in the Championship season but I think we might have been spoiled with the Hughton one, which was an anomaly. Didn't we get the second highest points tally ever for the division that year? 

 

When you consider all the summer outgoings, this was our starting position squad-wise:

 

Elliot

Darlow

 

Dummett

Lascelles

Mbemba

Haidara

Good

Findlay

Sterry

 

Colback

Anita

Shelvey

Aarons

Gouffran

Sammy

Barlaser

Ben El-Mhanni

 

Perez

Mitrovic

 

... and we won the league. Aye there was money to spend but it was spent incredibly well. 

Nothing in life is all upsides and the downside to Benitez is he loves spunking money on shite in the quest to find someone who can do a job. It takes him 3 signings to get it right but he does eventually. 

[Yorkie]

4 minutes ago, Chicane said:

I think he probably saw the big offer from China, saw there weren't any offers in the Prem and just said "alright fuck it, might as well go and get a bag"

 

Course he did. I can't see why you wouldn't. Never had a doubt in my mind that he would've stayed here instead had it been worthwhile to do so from a football point of view. It wasn't though. And why the fuck shouldn't he have deserved a payrise? Right now we'd have had Ashley downsizing to overcome the deficit from receiving no more parachute payments had Rafa not stuck around and dragged us back to the Premier League. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

14 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said:

What difference would it have made had we won the league with 115 points instead of 94?

 

And like I said, we *were* comfortably promoted. We finished 9 points above the playoffs zone.

 

He was also starting to prepare for the PL already... drilling the team in the more cautious approach that would be needed against better teams after promotion.

[Yorkie]

14 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Nothing in life is all upsides and the downside to Benitez is he loves spunking money on shite in the quest to find someone who can do a job. It takes him 3 signings to get it right but he does eventually. 

 

 What? It's absolutely beyond me how anyone can have that opinion. He signed one first choice striker in Gayle and he was a revelation. He signed one backup striker in Murphy and he did a grand job when called upon. One winger, Ritchie, who was basically the most productive player in the league that season I think, and served us very well in the first season back up. Centre-mid, Diame, who played a big role and went onto even better things in the Prem, and Hayden, again who provided brilliant value for money. Two CBs: Clark, who formed a formidable partnership with Lascelles, and Hanley, who wasn't up to much but provided cover. Full-backs was 1 out of 3 in terms of Yedlin being more use than Gamez and Lazaar. Then you've got Sels, which was the only big swing-and-a-miss.

 

I mean his signings (and their success) were probably the most impactful thing he did to ensure promotion. 

 

In the PL the context changed cos the budget was farcical and he could never get his first choices. But still resulted in several fantastic buys: Dubravka, Schar, Fernández, Lejeune, Kenedy season 1. Even Joselu and Ki provided a reasonable return when you consider they cost about fourteen pence between them. Who knows what Miggy would've become in a Rafa team. I've always liked him and he certainly played a big part in keeping us well clear of the drop in 18/19.

[Yorkie]

Forgot Yedlin. Another one who was crucial to promotion and consolidation. 

 

First team wise his hit rate in the Championship season was basically just short of 100%, assuming Sels was intended as the number 1.

 

Edit, Wait, no, I didn't forget him. Whatever. I've got a bee in my bonnet. 

[Kid Icarus]

Be careful disagreeing with people that don't like him by using things like examples and evidence of his success and our success with him as our manager. They'll claim that no one's allowed to say anything bad about Rafa. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by kisearch

[Billy Pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

 What? It's absolutely beyond me how anyone can have that opinion. He signed one first choice striker in Gayle and he was a revelation. He signed one backup striker in Murphy and he did a grand job when called upon. One winger, Ritchie, who was basically the most productive player in the league that season I think, and served us very well in the first season back up. Centre-mid, Diame, who played a big role and went onto even better things in the Prem, and Hayden, again who provided brilliant value for money. Two CBs: Clark, who formed a formidable partnership with Lascelles, and Hanley, who wasn't up to much but provided cover. Full-backs was 1 out of 3 in terms of Yedlin being more use than Gamez and Lazaar. Then you've got Sels, which was the only big swing-and-a-miss.

 

I mean his signings (and their success) were probably the most impactful thing he did to ensure promotion. 

 

In the PL the context changed cos the budget was farcical and he could never get his first choices. But still resulted in several fantastic buys: Dubravka, Schar, Fernández, Lejeune, Kenedy season 1. Even Joselu and Ki provided a reasonable return when you consider they cost about fourteen pence between them. Who knows what Miggy would've become in a Rafa team. I've always liked him and he certainly played a big part in keeping us well clear of the drop in 18/19.

Over the course of his career he has spent an absolute fortune on complete shite and has zero qualms about having a player for a week and then deciding to never use him. Like I love rafa and think he did an amazing job but what he didn’t do was spend money wisely when he had it. Now for me, in our situation, I’d argue that it actually isn’t a problem anymore and that he is the sort of manager where unlimited money means he can make transfer mistakes and have zero backlash. Maybe 3 for every good signing is overboard but one of the reasons Ashley didn’t want to give him what he wanted was that he had already bought loads of players that didn’t work out or he didn’t want to use. If I could be arsed I’d go through all of the transfers in his time here but the ones that immediately come to mind as less than great signings are the likes of Hanley, sells, lazaar and Jacob Murphy. Even Almiron in hindsight, because as much as I rate him he isn’t worth what we paid and has basically been a square peg in a round hole ever since rafa left. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Billy Pilgrim

[Fantail Breeze]

I don’t get why it’s not straightforward to say he was a success with us, but hasn’t been elsewhere for some time.

 

It’s not totally alien, happens all the time. See Moyes as a prime example.

[Conjo]

47 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

I still don't think we were overly impressive that year given the squad and our struggles to get there. However, finishing 10th the following year was brilliant and Rafa's standout year here imo.

 

Do you think the two could be connected somehow?

 

My main takeaway from the championship season was that he was setting us up to play a certain way so the players were better prepared for the return to the premier league. So often you see exciting teams tear up the championship, but then struggle to replicate the same style in the premier league. They are not able to completely change their style of play to a more defensive/structured/organised style of play and get relegated again immediately afterwards.

[jack j]

20 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Course he did. I can't see why you wouldn't. Never had a doubt in my mind that he would've stayed here instead had it been worthwhile to do so from a football point of view. It wasn't though. And why the fuck shouldn't he have deserved a payrise? Right now we'd have had Ashley downsizing to overcome the deficit from receiving no more parachute payments had Rafa not stuck around and dragged us back to the Premier League. 

Surely he's gotta regret going to China and then Everton. Obviously his wallet won't but what was he ever going to gain in those 2 jobs. Always on a hiding to nowt

[Mike]

On 29/11/2021 at 05:00, The Prophet said:

If Ancelotti and Benitez, both former Champions League winners, can't get a tune out of this Everton side, you've got go wonder how deep their issues are.

 

Was thinking this last night.

[Mikky]

Their squad is terrible - Digne, Richarlison and DCL are the only genuine quality players they have - Godfrey/Keane are decent, Doucoure possibly - but that’s it 

 

all that investment and they have barely anything to show for it 

[Yorkie]

8 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

I don’t get why it’s not straightforward to say he was a success with us, but hasn’t been elsewhere for some time.

 

It’s not totally alien, happens all the time. See Moyes as a prime example.

 

That's totally fair. In hindsight the Everton move hasn't been a good one but I don't think he's the type to have regrets. He'll have been aware of the risks but decided it was the right move for him anyway, particularly after being stuck in a Chinese hotel a million miles away from his family during COVID. Another thing I've found to be a laughable criticism is that he decided to take a job close to his home.  Imagine being criticised for that in any other industry. 

[Jaqen]

20 minutes ago, Mikky said:

Their squad is terrible - Digne, Richarlison and DCL are the only genuine quality players they have - Godfrey/Keane are decent, Doucoure possibly - but that’s it 

 

all that investment and they have barely anything to show for it 

 

Digne looks to have regressed a fair bit under Rafa this season I think.