Jump to content

Mike Ashley (former owner)


Disco

?  

464 members have voted

  1. 1. ?

    • Takeover
      21
    • Fakeover
      11


Recommended Posts

I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and s*** ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to.

 

When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best."

 

What about murdering journalists? Is that fine as well because its a different culture?

 

nope. didn't say it was

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's not big up democracy too much - This is a process which has brought us Donald Trump, Boris Johnson and Brexit. :lol:

 

FWIW the Saudis are making bold steps to modernise. Look up their "Vision 2030" if you want to see what they're planning on doing, but you cannot do these things overnight. I've spent a lot of time in the country over the last 7 years and indeed I'm in Jeddah right now. I've been talking to the people here about the modernisation and even the young people who do want change are worried that things are happening too quickly. Like any people, they're proud of their culture and worry about its loss and dilution.

 

These things simply cannot change overnight, but the crown prince is determined to do as much as he can and seemingly wants to do things quicker than most of the populace are comfortable with, which tells me things are going absolutely as fast as they can.

 

I'm not suggesting it'll be some paradise in a few years or that it'll be a free and open society, and I'm not sugarcoating the obvious horrific things which have happened and continue to happen here. But it is definitely changing and it can't change any quicker.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to.

 

When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best."

well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run

 

As opposed to the UK where the people are brainwashed by the Murdoch media.

 

FWIW you are not going to get arrested for casually criticising the regime here. I've had some intense debates with locals and nobody has batted an eyelid, and some of them have been openly critical of some things themselves. You just can't organise proper full-scale protests against the government or go publishing dissenting articles. Private free speech is fine.

 

Not saying that the above is great, but it's not as bad as is often portrayed. Guy who was driving me home tonight got pulled over by the police and happily got out his car to remonstrate with the officer. Still got fined, but you clearly don't have to act all meek to anyone in authority. I accidentally drove across a parade ground in an airbase in Dhahran last year during an actual parade (Thanks Google maps! :lol:) and despite the military police coming screaming out after me in a pickup truck, it was all laughed off in the end.

 

It's not some totalitarian hellhole where you'll end up in jail for nothing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to.

 

When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best."

well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run

 

Russia/Chelsea?

Abramovich isn't literally the russian goverment so the comparison falls apart there though he has had strong links with it obviously

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and s*** ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to.

 

When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best."

well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run

 

First, I don't think our media is as free as people like to believe it is. As soon as Corbyn had a sniff at Israel his party were anti-semites. That's just one example.

 

Secondly, authoritarian states are typically crime free and drug free and the people often have less to worry about in terms of housing and employment - even if it's shit. It mind seem like a banal and even impoverished existence to us but the countries function and people find things to make themselves happy. There's a trade off and it really just depends on the history and culture of the place, the temperament of people etc...

 

I'm not defending big Kim and his labour camps but not every group of people needs or wants Western democratic (are we really?) liberalism.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to.

 

When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best."

well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run

 

We had Corbyn and Johnson punishing dissenting voices, i know it's not murder or arrests but those two mad bastards got more than 20 million votes between.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to.

 

When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best."

well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run

 

Russia/Chelsea?

Abramovich isn't literally the russian goverment so the comparison falls apart there though he has had strong links with it obviously

no, not "literally" but it is very naive to suggest that the government didn't help him gain that wealth, or help hide how he got it.

not disagreeing but he was hardly alone in that fact. Hell iirc it was speculated part of the reason he bought Chelsea was to have somewhere reasonably safe to get away to if Putin turned against him

Link to post
Share on other sites

Its an interesting political and cultural debate but aren't were getting a little ahead of ourselves when we said we wouldn't.

I wouldn't get excited about this and I certainly wouldn't worry about this unless something concrete happens.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...