D. Yimentov Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and s*** ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to. When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best." What about murdering journalists? Is that fine as well because its a different culture? nope. didn't say it was Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Absolutely loving the dissenting voices in this. Got some time for it tbph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I, for one, welcome our murderous overlords. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Let's not big up democracy too much - This is a process which has brought us Donald Trump, Boris Johnson and Brexit. FWIW the Saudis are making bold steps to modernise. Look up their "Vision 2030" if you want to see what they're planning on doing, but you cannot do these things overnight. I've spent a lot of time in the country over the last 7 years and indeed I'm in Jeddah right now. I've been talking to the people here about the modernisation and even the young people who do want change are worried that things are happening too quickly. Like any people, they're proud of their culture and worry about its loss and dilution. These things simply cannot change overnight, but the crown prince is determined to do as much as he can and seemingly wants to do things quicker than most of the populace are comfortable with, which tells me things are going absolutely as fast as they can. I'm not suggesting it'll be some paradise in a few years or that it'll be a free and open society, and I'm not sugarcoating the obvious horrific things which have happened and continue to happen here. But it is definitely changing and it can't change any quicker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to. When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best." well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I would normally be opposed to having state funded Saudi owners, but I want Ashley out so badly, I'm prepared to let the atrocities slide. I mean, Ashley is awful. But this lot are 1000x worse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoForJoy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I, for one, welcome our murderous overlords. Me too. I'd much rather see Lee Ryder get his head lobbed off at half time than another crossbar challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run As opposed to the UK where the people are brainwashed by the Murdoch media. FWIW you are not going to get arrested for casually criticising the regime here. I've had some intense debates with locals and nobody has batted an eyelid, and some of them have been openly critical of some things themselves. You just can't organise proper full-scale protests against the government or go publishing dissenting articles. Private free speech is fine. Not saying that the above is great, but it's not as bad as is often portrayed. Guy who was driving me home tonight got pulled over by the police and happily got out his car to remonstrate with the officer. Still got fined, but you clearly don't have to act all meek to anyone in authority. I accidentally drove across a parade ground in an airbase in Dhahran last year during an actual parade (Thanks Google maps! ) and despite the military police coming screaming out after me in a pickup truck, it was all laughed off in the end. It's not some totalitarian hellhole where you'll end up in jail for nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to. When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best." well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run Russia/Chelsea? Abramovich isn't literally the russian goverment so the comparison falls apart there though he has had strong links with it obviously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Isn't he banned from the UK currently? or at least he was not long ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Isn't he banned from the UK currently? or at least he was not long ago. Yes he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Isn't he banned from the UK currently? or at least he was not long ago. Yes he is. That's not right is it? Thought he got a UK visa knocked back but gets in on an Israeli passport or summit. Don't think he was ever banned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Isn't he banned from the UK currently? or at least he was not long ago. he definitely was, problems renewing his visa or something. Think he was going to get Isreali citizenship to get around that problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 We the plaything of a family of maniacs yet then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Yimentov Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and s*** ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to. When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best." well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run First, I don't think our media is as free as people like to believe it is. As soon as Corbyn had a sniff at Israel his party were anti-semites. That's just one example. Secondly, authoritarian states are typically crime free and drug free and the people often have less to worry about in terms of housing and employment - even if it's shit. It mind seem like a banal and even impoverished existence to us but the countries function and people find things to make themselves happy. There's a trade off and it really just depends on the history and culture of the place, the temperament of people etc... I'm not defending big Kim and his labour camps but not every group of people needs or wants Western democratic (are we really?) liberalism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to. When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best." well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run We had Corbyn and Johnson punishing dissenting voices, i know it's not murder or arrests but those two mad bastards got more than 20 million votes between. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I've worked with quite a few Saudis over the last year or so and shit ton of other Middle Easterners. It's true that a lot of them would like more freedom of the press and suchlike but there are a lot of things that they wouldn't want to change. Absolute gender equality, enforced by quotas, LGBT stuff, abolition of the death penalty... etc All of these things were implemented yesterday in the grand scheme of things. It is in my opinion both erroneous and arrogant of us to assume that today's liberal paradigm is the be all and all that every culture should aspire to. When you get deeper into, even things that we've been taught to hold sacred like freedom, equality and democracy can be argued against. I can tell you from the Iraqis that I work with that Saddam was very popular with a lot of people. Ditto in China. Xi is super popular. "Ah, but they're brainwashed. Not like us. We really know what is best." well they are kinda brainwashed, absolute dictatorships control the media and employs heavy censorship and in saudi arabias case arrest people who dare criticise the regime or how things are run Russia/Chelsea? Abramovich isn't literally the russian goverment so the comparison falls apart there though he has had strong links with it obviously no, not "literally" but it is very naive to suggest that the government didn't help him gain that wealth, or help hide how he got it. not disagreeing but he was hardly alone in that fact. Hell iirc it was speculated part of the reason he bought Chelsea was to have somewhere reasonably safe to get away to if Putin turned against him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 The Chinese are a bunch of shithouses when it comes to human rights but here in the north east we still drink their water. On this basis the fakeover is acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Its an interesting political and cultural debate but aren't were getting a little ahead of ourselves when we said we wouldn't. I wouldn't get excited about this and I certainly wouldn't worry about this unless something concrete happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Yet Ashley has been bleeding our club of money, it's spirit and draining the very reason we exist, but that's OK ? Do that to all or not at all you cunts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Yimentov Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Money is everything. No way are the PL knocking back this kind of wealth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I would laugh my ass off if that came to pass since that would be the one thing that would fail that pathetic test, oh human rights who cares but dare to pirate our content we won't stand for that unforgivable crime Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 There's no way the PL would reject Saudi money if this comes off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Our government is happy for us to sell weapons to these animals, but the PL knock back the takeover of a football club on morality grounds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now