Steve Brute

[Shearergol]

Assuming we get sold and we have a dedication to challenging for Europe, then Steve Bruce is clearly not the right man to lead the club into this future. He’s done better so far than I’ve expected - keep it down to the strong core of the team, fortunate results and a bit of luck. Hopefully we pick up some more results and finish high as possible, get sold, he gets a thank you and is let go and we don’t have to speak too much about him again.

 

That's quite literally it.

 

A fair comment.

 

Ideally our next appointment is a manager who's never had to rely on luck to win games of football. Ever.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what people are saying.

 

Many having a pop at Bruce for relying on luck for some results. Looks like luck is frowned upon. I dont mind how we win personally but each to their own.

 

Now this is where I differ. I've always preferred to enjoy watching football. Winning dirty (or luckily) every single time we win just isn't enjoyable, especially considering how shit we are when we draw or lose.

 

Some of Rafa's football was exactly the same early on, and I remember being criticised on here for having a negative view on it (I do understand why he did it, before anyone goes back to that). But he found a formula which started to make us worth watching again. Maybe Bruce has found that too, I don't know, but there's nothing on his CV to suggest that we're suddenly going to become a really good team to watch under him.

 

We won't, because Bruce's crap. He'll be gone at the end of the season.

 

I'm not arsed how we win, I don't give a crap about "xG" stats or anything alike. As long as we win, I don't care. I'm not going to lose sleep over how we had to rely on Dubravka to make X amount of saves in order for us to get a result.

 

As I stated, that's where we differ, and probably why we have different views on how Bruce has done this season. I can accept that you're a "win above all" type guy though.

[mrmojorisin75]

There are a number of deficiencies in the playing squad notably the loss of Perez and Rondon, which meant we should have been expecting to be languishing right at the bottom. Yes on paper we could have lost many more games and overall over the course of the season I think he has generally made the right decisions given the poor hand he had.

 

Obviously don’t want him here next season but he’s done the most important thing really, he gave the club an extra year to get the takeover done, and he got us into a position that made us look investable in March - something Rafa didn’t because we were always a bit to close to the bottom to attract serious buyers.

 

I think those ‘deficiencies’ could have been rectified early on if we’d stuck with Almiron on the left and ASM on the right either side of Joelinton. Not saying we’d have been great but you saw with the chances we were creating with a natural left footer left (and Almiron for the third goal), and right footer on the right that it was better.

 

how long it took him to move almiron off the right told me all i need to know about the guy tbph, either absolutely fucking clueless or, well i don't know the other option is it was so bad

 

iirc almiron scored his first goal of the season at home when he was moved from the right

[AlanSkÃrare]

He inherited a superbly drilled and organised back third of the pitch if you're saying he's not gotten incredibly lucky that he did then you're blinded by your argument.

 

Therefore, Rafa had a hand in our survival this year.

 

Sorry but it's true.

 

Do we thank Benitez for being a game away from Wembley in the FA Cup too?

 

True. Bruce really deserves credit for beating Rochdale after needing a replay, then Oxford in extra time after needing a replay and being outplayed for most of the game, then a Championship side. I'll give him that.

[TRon]

I mean, luck is frowned upon, you’re supposed to get results based on what you actually do.

 

Is there a manager who hasnt relied on luck at some point to get results? If not then why hold it against Bruce?

 

Over a season you make your own luck

 

Over a career your record speaks for itself. Bruce's is fairly shit, and he's been sacked from every other top flight job he's had, usually because his teams get progressively worse the longer he stays. That is why all those defending him won't actually say we should keep him on.

[Robster]

He inherited a superbly drilled and organised back third of the pitch if you're saying he's not gotten incredibly lucky that he did then you're blinded by your argument.

 

Therefore, Rafa had a hand in our survival this year.

 

Sorry but it's true.

Do we thank Benitez for being a game away from Wembley in the FA Cup too?

True. Bruce really deserves credit for beating Rochdale after needing a replay, then Oxford in extra time after needing a replay and being outplayed for most of the game, then a Championship side. I'll give him that.

[Minhosa]

He inherited a superbly drilled and organised back third of the pitch if you're saying he's not gotten incredibly lucky that he did then you're blinded by your argument.

 

Therefore, Rafa had a hand in our survival this year.

 

Sorry but it's true.

 

Do we thank Benitez for being a game away from Wembley in the FA Cup too?

 

True. Bruce really deserves credit for beating Rochdale after needing a replay, then Oxford in extra time after needing a replay and being outplayed for most of the game, then a Championship side. I'll give him that.

 

:lol:

[AlanSkÃrare]

No, but the stats help you work out whether it's skill or luck. If you only judge things on results, you might not appreciate what's really going on. You can be bad and still win, but that might not be sustainable.

 

well put - what was that period where we were picking results with our defenders scoring random goals as we were dicked off the pitch in most games?  he doesn't "deserve credit" for that because winning games by having your defenders score all the goals isn't a tactical plan, it was f***ing luck

 

12 goals conceded in 15 home isn't purely down to luck man. f***ing hell  :lol:

 

not sure what point you think you're making, he stuck to rafa's system in order to keep games tight and as a result we couldn't score for s***

 

if you think steve bacon is the brains behind that defensive organisation and dubravka playing out of his skin you need help

 

Might as well just had a f***ing crash test dummy in the dugout then? This f***ing board man. 

 

Well we can have a look at some stats can’t we? This great defensive record has Dubs with the highest number of saves in the league and also we have the 4th highest shots faced per game behind villa, Bournemouth and Norwich lol. Is that sustainable? Could you tell me what positions those three are in the league?

 

19thb in goals from open play

 

 

Shots on target we are 17th

 

15th in shots per game

 

Counter attack goals 19th

 

2nd in set piece goals (very sustainable to get all your goal from set plays And defenders)

 

All these things are telling you where we really should be.

 

Through balls per game

 

19th

 

Short passes

 

19th

 

Crosses 18th

 

It’s all here if you want to check it:

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7811/Stages/17590/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020

 

Can you tell me the common numbers amongst those stats? They are bottom of the league numbers

 

I'd be interested to see how this compares to last season.

 

Shots pg 13th

On target pg 16th

Shots conceded per game 12th highest

11th in goals from open play

17th for counter attack

16th set peices

Crosses pg 6th

through ball per game 12th

short passes 18

 

As you can see we look about where you would expect us to on last season's stats.

 

 

 

 

The Almiron signing transformed us last season.  First half of the season wasn't great, second half we were the fifth best team in the land or something.

 

Yeah and we didn't have ASM.

 

He started the season with Ayoze – a player he more or less made himself – and Rondon on fucking loan. Bruce was given ASM for £17m, Joelinton for £40m and already had Almiron at £21m.

[mrmojorisin75]

Bruce was given ASM for £17m, Joelinton for £40m and already had Almiron at £21m.

 

yeah and couldn't get any of them close to scoring a goal

 

fucking rotten manager

[TRon]

It's actually a dilemma for me at the moment, I want us to win games, but at the same time, if we win two or three more, you are going to get a growing clamour for Bruce to carry on next season, and with him being a "local lad" ( but a fucking manc really) it will make it harder to bin him off. A good end to this season could wreck our prospects for the next one.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's actually a dilemma for me at the moment, I want us to win games, but at the same time, if we win two or three more, you are going to get a growing clamour for Bruce to carry on next season, and with him being a "local lad" ( but a fucking manc really) it will make it harder to bin him off. A good end to this season could wreck our prospects for the next one.

 

i'll be gutted if he's kept on next season should there be a takeover, absolutely fucking gutted

[aussiemag]

I think if Benitez had ASM, Rondon, and Almiron for a full season he’d have them top 8 easy.

For 2/3 of last season he was relying on Atsu, Joselu and an awful Kenedy. Almiron and ASM are a huge upgrade.

[Guest Butcher]

June 30. Rafa leaves and joins some Chinese club a week later (not for the money ofc )

 

Rondon and Perez leaves - just the 23 goals between them in the league last season.

 

July 17. Bruce appointed.

 

August 11. First PL game vs Arsenal, less than a month after he got appointed and had a very short pre-season to prepare.

 

Bruce came in when the club were in turmoil. We were among the favourites to go down.

 

To be safe with 8 to go and to still be in the Cup is a very good achievement regardless of the f***ing stats or how badly we've played.

 

You can stick your unsustainable up your arse. Leicester won the league by playing unsustainable football.

 

 

 

[Kanji]

Can't for the life of me fathom how or why the potential new owners would have sold their business plan to one another with the idea that they'd eventually be pushing for Europe with a manager who's not got the track record to do so. For that reason alone, I don't see him being tasked to stay on. He will get a nice farewell send off (pay off).

[Guest Butcher]

June 30. Rafa leaves and joins some Chinese club a week later (not for the money ofc )

 

Rondon and Perez leaves - just the 23 goals between them in the league last season.

 

July 17. Bruce appointed.

 

August 11. First PL game vs Arsenal, less than a month after he got appointed and had a very short pre-season to prepare.

 

Bruce came in when the club were in turmoil. We were among the favourites to go down.

 

To be safe with 8 to go and to still be in the Cup is a very good achievement regardless of the f***ing stats or how badly we've played.

 

You can stick your unsustainable up your arse. Leicester won the league by playing unsustainable football.

 

 

yes a once in a lifetime feat that will never be repeated.

 

And what happened next season?

 

also, Leicester that season:

 

7.  Leicester conceded just 34 goals in 36 matches with Arsenal being the only team to score more than two goals in a single match against the now champion club.

 

18.  Goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel kept 15 clean sheets and 7 of the shutouts came in the last 10 games.

 

19.  Leicester gave Schmeichel a lot of protection. Over 36 matches, Leicester blocked 159 shots – only West Brom and Crystal Palace stopped more.

 

20.  The centre-back partnership of Robert Huth and Wes Morgan combined to block 73 shots.

 

21.  The bulky duo was also busy making clearances. Only three players bested Huth’s 263 clearances and Morgan was only four places lower in the ranking with 211 successful clearances.

 

Leicester’s defensive discipline showed in the number of defensive errors – only 10 all season and just one led to a goal. For comparison, 13 of the goals allowed by West Ham and Aston Villa came from defensive miscues.

 

As a team, Leicester averaged 23 tackles per game and 21.8 interceptions – both Premier League highs.

 

Of the 3,240 minutes played over 36 matches, Leicester only trailed for 370 minutes.

 

I'd suggest those stats are pretty damn good and not relevant at all to ours.

 

They're pretty fucking irrelevant if you win the league, mind

[Kanji]

June 30. Rafa leaves and joins some Chinese club a week later (not for the money ofc )

 

Rondon and Perez leaves - just the 23 goals between them in the league last season.

 

July 17. Bruce appointed.

 

August 11. First PL game vs Arsenal, less than a month after he got appointed and had a very short pre-season to prepare.

 

Bruce came in when the club were in turmoil. We were among the favourites to go down.

 

To be safe with 8 to go and to still be in the Cup is a very good achievement regardless of the f***ing stats or how badly we've played.

 

You can stick your unsustainable up your arse. Leicester won the league by playing unsustainable football.

 

 

yes a once in a lifetime feat that will never be repeated.

 

And what happened next season?

 

also, Leicester that season:

 

7.  Leicester conceded just 34 goals in 36 matches with Arsenal being the only team to score more than two goals in a single match against the now champion club.

 

18.  Goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel kept 15 clean sheets and 7 of the shutouts came in the last 10 games.

 

19.  Leicester gave Schmeichel a lot of protection. Over 36 matches, Leicester blocked 159 shots – only West Brom and Crystal Palace stopped more.

 

20.  The centre-back partnership of Robert Huth and Wes Morgan combined to block 73 shots.

 

21.  The bulky duo was also busy making clearances. Only three players bested Huth’s 263 clearances and Morgan was only four places lower in the ranking with 211 successful clearances.

 

Leicester’s defensive discipline showed in the number of defensive errors – only 10 all season and just one led to a goal. For comparison, 13 of the goals allowed by West Ham and Aston Villa came from defensive miscues.

 

As a team, Leicester averaged 23 tackles per game and 21.8 interceptions – both Premier League highs.

 

Of the 3,240 minutes played over 36 matches, Leicester only trailed for 370 minutes.

 

I'd suggest those stats are pretty damn good and not relevant at all to ours.

 

 

 

 

Leicester played efficient and ruthless football that was backed by their stubborn def + gk and counter attack / set pieces that punished once or twice a game. A simple formula that is hard as fuck to replicate.

[Guest Butcher]

My bad.

 

From what I can recall Leicester were very lucky in loads of games that season. They got a shitload of dodgy decisions going their way.

 

A quick look: They're expected points were 68.94. They ended up on 81. Unsustainable.

 

 

[Guest dabe]

My bad.

 

From what I can recall Leicester were very lucky in loads of games that season. They got a shitload of dodgy decisions going their way.

 

A quick look: They're expected points were 68.94. They ended up on 81. Unsustainable.

 

They didn't win the title the season after. It's almost as if the unsustainability caught up to them...just like it would with Bruce's Newcastle given enough time?

 

Remember the season after Pardew got the team to 5th?

[loki679]

My bad.

 

From what I can recall Leicester were very lucky in loads of games that season. They got a shitload of dodgy decisions going their way.

 

A quick look: They're expected points were 68.94. They ended up on 81. Unsustainable.

 

They didn't win the title the season after. It's almost as if the unsustainability caught up to them...just like it would with Bruce's Newcastle given enough time?

 

Remember the season after Pardew got the team to 5th?

 

It's such a fucking stupid argument

 

Here's the difference, if they can't sustain their magic run they end up finishing 6th -8th.  If we can't sustain our magic run we end up playing championship football next season.

[Guest Butcher]

Thank f*** you don’t get points for stats in football.

[Guest dabe]

Thank f*** you don’t get points for stats in football.

 

Puerile comment.

 

Understanding patterns/trends in statistics is helpful for making predictions and determinations on future events. In all likelihood, if Newcastle keep Bruce, results will get worse as our expected performances catch up to us.

 

Hopefully, he's binned off before this can take effect and we can forget his bacon based nonsense.

[Guest]

I hate him but I’ll give him credit for yesterday like.

[wormy]

It feels to me like it's not just a stats-related debate as to why some fans don't want to give him credit. I know for me when I look it it objectively, it's also based on emotions; and I for one still feel more than vindicated in it.

 

We were coming out of a second half of last season that showed what we may be able to start doing if Rafa had finally gotten the backing he deserved. That hope was pulled from under us, to be replaced by a mediocre local with one of the worst managerial records since the PL began, that seems to have had an active dislike for the club for at least twenty years, now coming and telling us some bollocks about boyhood dreams because taking the job finally suited him. Talking shit about our former world-class manager (who mostly finally united our fanbase for the first time in years) whenever he failed, all the while his media buddies were telling fans they needed to get over said former manager. Crying like a little bitch about not getting a fair shake when those same fans had the audacity to question these points-defying performances.

 

If he'd have taken over after, say, Carver, he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the (still not that that much) vitriol from fans. But he knew what he was walking in to here, was still happy to do so, yet cried foul whenever it suited him.

 

It bewilders me how a debate always kicks off in here because some people are incredulous at the fact some fans don't want to give him credit for this season. How is it such a shock to see fans get defensive? As I posted earlier, these feelings are probably even more heightened among some when we experienced similar with Pardew, whose eight year contract hasn't even fucking ended yet.

 

Everyone seems to be on the same page in wanting him to be replaced long-term, which is why I'm even more confused these arguments rear their head so often. He's a shit manager, and seems a bit of bellwipe, whether he's got pals in the media that want to argue otherwise. Unsurprisingly, some of us couldn't give a shit about making sure the poor fat whopper gets whatever credit others want to give him for this season.

 

Poor little Stevie Bruce getting the love he's decided he so desperately craves from NUFC is very much near the bottom of my list of things I give a fuck about as an NUFC fan.

[Guest Butcher]

My bad.

 

From what I can recall Leicester were very lucky in loads of games that season. They got a shitload of dodgy decisions going their way.

 

A quick look: They're expected points were 68.94. They ended up on 81. Unsustainable.

 

Right, but your argument is weird. Its unsustainable and they f***ed it the season after, but even so the majority of their stats were really good that season.

 

What are you getting at?

 

also

 

You need a bit of luck when winning titles, and Leicester had it in 15/16, ranking as only the fourth-best team in the Premier League (1.90 xGF, 1.35 xGA per game) according to expected goals process.

 

I mean fourth is still pretty f***ing good.

 

The Foxes were second best in eight league games according to expected goals, but all eight came against teams in the 'big six', and their three defeats came against Arsenal (twice) and Liverpool. They went unbeaten against the rest which went a long way to them winning the title.

 

also not bad

 

No idea 

[jackyboy]

Leicester also had Vardy who was a bit of an upgrade from Joselu

[Mike]

Neil Custis on the Sunday Supplement  - “Bruce is a strong contender for manager of the year”  [emoji38] [emoji38]

Did all the other managers die?