Success at what cost?

[Si]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/saudi-activists-dispute-official-narrative-hwaiti-killing-200417103626920.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52326130

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/14/bae-systems-sold-15bn-arms-to-saudis-during-yemen-assault

 

Yup, aware of all of that. Still doesn't detract from my point.

All those are from this month they aren't looking to change man.

[BennyBlanco]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/saudi-activists-dispute-official-narrative-hwaiti-killing-200417103626920.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52326130

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/14/bae-systems-sold-15bn-arms-to-saudis-during-yemen-assault

 

Yup, aware of all of that. Still doesn't detract from my point.

All those are from this month they aren't looking to change man.

 

Change doesn't come overnight though does it? It's going to be a slow process.

[Si]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/saudi-activists-dispute-official-narrative-hwaiti-killing-200417103626920.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52326130

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/14/bae-systems-sold-15bn-arms-to-saudis-during-yemen-assault

 

Yup, aware of all of that. Still doesn't detract from my point.

All those are from this month they aren't looking to change man.

 

Change doesn't come overnight though does it? It's going to be a slow process.

No it does not but I'll wait till they've stopped murdering people before I think they are on any path to redemption.

 

[Rafalove]

How exactly does sportwashing work exactly? How is it supposed to improve their image? All it’s done so far is draw attention to it to human rights violations.I mean there’s no doubt that’s the reason we’re being bought, but how does it work.

[Kid Icarus]

How exactly does sportwashing work exactly? How is it supposed to improve their image? All it’s done so far is draw attention to it to human rights violations.I mean there’s no doubt that’s the reason we’re being bought, but how does it work.

 

You see all of the comments on here and on Twitter from Newcastle fans excusing or deflecting away from Saudi human rights abuses who wouldn't be doing any excusing or deflecting if they weren't buying the football team they support? That's just one part of how it works. Once they revitalise the region that's another step among people who might not even necessarily follow football - 'say what you will about the Saudis, but they've done wonders for the region' will be something we're likely to hear a lot imo.

 

This is a good article on it - https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-uae-sports-washing-199116

[Rafalove]

Aye but surely the negative press from the rest of the media means more it receives more negative attention than positive. No denying it’s shameful how some of our fanbase are seemingly willing to overlook human rights abuses.

 

 

Another thing aren’t these lot responsible for funding mosques that end up producing grooming gangs and terrorists?

[RS]

For someone who no longer cared about Newcastle a couple of days ago and wished us all the best. You’ve ‘literally’ not stopped posting about this terrible new owner since. I find that unusual. kisearch[/member]

[Guest neesy111]

They are opening up, but it's more a necessity due to how reliant on oil their economy is.  I don't believe for a second some of the actions they've done to open up is because they've had a change of heart.

 

 

Qatar is exactly the same, completely dependent on natural gas for their economy hence all of this spending on world cup etc.

[TRon]

How exactly does sportwashing work exactly? How is it supposed to improve their image? All it’s done so far is draw attention to it to human rights violations.I mean there’s no doubt that’s the reason we’re being bought, but how does it work.

 

You see all of the comments on here and on Twitter from Newcastle fans excusing or deflecting away from Saudi human rights abuses who wouldn't be doing any excusing or deflecting if they weren't buying the football team they support? That's just one part of how it works. Once they revitalise the region that's another step among people who might not even necessarily follow football - 'say what you will about the Saudis, but they've done wonders for the region' will be something we're likely to hear a lot imo.

 

This is a good article on it - https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-uae-sports-washing-199116

 

It works both ways though. By adopting a British football club they also have to buy into how we do sport. When they show Newcastle matches in Saudi Arabia, they'll be seeing women at football games, probably the odd close up of someone swilling lager, etc. All this filters back into their society as well, hopefully it will improve it.

 

The alternative is to be like Isis or North Korea, and just ban everything and refuse interaction with the outside world full stop. Same goes for us, we could also, as a country, just tell Saudi Arabia to do one, but we don't, if anything they are key trade partners.

 

Does that mean their regime is any less reprehensible? No, but it does show that when we as a country aren't prepared to put our foot down because it suits our interests not to, then it's not the job of Newcastle fans to fuck over our own club to satisfy Martin Samuels and other cunts like him.

[Kid Icarus]

For someone who no longer cared about Newcastle a couple of days ago and wished us all the best. You’ve ‘literally’ not stopped posting about this terrible new owner since. I find that unusual. kisearch[/member]

 

To be completely honest I hadn't looked at who the potential owner was at that point I'd probably not be posting at all if it wasn't for who he is and for being bored and in isolation. I stopped caring about the club around last July, but I do care about this piece of shit turning around the public perception of him and the Saudis among the people in our city.

[Darth Crooks]

I think it’s perfectly acceptable to express distaste with the prospect of literally flying for Saudi Arabia, (as seen across social media and likely sponsors) be delighted at seeing the back of someone who is crippling the football club and not be told it’s virtue signalling or moralising. If you feel that way then I’d argue it’s objection to things everyone would usually deplore - sanctioning murders, bombing refugees. insert whichever flag/government (not private investor) you like North Korea, China, Russia, Downing Street but its the Saudi government involved and its them who are under scrutiny. For me and all I can do I’m not going to give up my club provided they aren’t going to take the piss. Lost too many friends. That’s the difference Ashley was all too happy to say fuck you to those following NUFC and outside.

 

I appreciate that investment and good in the city will potentially be huge though it is not without agenda. I suppose on a practical level as an individual I wouldn’t be prepared to buy shirts with Saudi slogans or interests over them and I won’t advocate flying the flag. My presence smiling at the ground will probably all they want but the key is it was divisive both in and away from Newcastle with Ashley and on variable alone he’s worse.

[Kid Icarus]

How exactly does sportwashing work exactly? How is it supposed to improve their image? All it’s done so far is draw attention to it to human rights violations.I mean there’s no doubt that’s the reason we’re being bought, but how does it work.

 

You see all of the comments on here and on Twitter from Newcastle fans excusing or deflecting away from Saudi human rights abuses who wouldn't be doing any excusing or deflecting if they weren't buying the football team they support? That's just one part of how it works. Once they revitalise the region that's another step among people who might not even necessarily follow football - 'say what you will about the Saudis, but they've done wonders for the region' will be something we're likely to hear a lot imo.

 

This is a good article on it - https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-uae-sports-washing-199116

 

It works both ways though. By adopting a British football club they also have to buy into how we do sport. When they show Newcastle matches in Saudi Arabia, they'll be seeing women at football games, probably the odd close up of someone swilling lager, etc. All this filters back into their society as well, hopefully it will improve it.

 

The alternative is to be like Isis or North Korea, and just ban everything and refuse interaction with the outside world full stop. Same goes for us, we could also, as a country, just tell Saudi Arabia to do one, but we don't, if anything they are key trade partners.

 

Does that mean their regime is any less reprehensible? No, but it does show that when we as a country aren't prepared to put our foot down because it suits our interests not to, then it's not the job of Newcastle fans to f*** over our own club to satisfy Martin Samuels and other c***s like him.

 

No one has said it's our responsibility of our fans to do anything tbf, just that we shouldn't be manipulated into excusing or glorifying their actions because they might improve the fortunes of our favourite football team.

 

The alternative is to be like Isis or North Korea, and just ban everything and refuse interaction with the outside world full stop. Same goes for us, we could also, as a country, just tell Saudi Arabia to do one, but we don't, if anything they are key trade partners.

 

Having interaction isn't the issue though, it's the nature of the interaction. If the interactions our country is having with the Saudi's was part of a U.N Human Rights improvement initiative or something, fair enough, but our country's interaction has been to sell them weapons so they can bomb children's hospitals in Yemen, and our club and city's interaction will likely be to overlook their human rights record because they've improved our material interests.

 

It works both ways though. By adopting a British football club they also have to buy into how we do sport. When they show Newcastle matches in Saudi Arabia, they'll be seeing women at football games, probably the odd close up of someone swilling lager, etc. All this filters back into their society as well, hopefully it will improve it.

 

I don't think we should underestimate how comfortable power is with having blatant double standards. The man who's buying the club who you say will have to buy in our way of doing sport, currently has a Saudi princess under house arrest for wanting exactly the reforms and improvements you're saying could filter back to their society and improve it.

[TRon]

How exactly does sportwashing work exactly? How is it supposed to improve their image? All it’s done so far is draw attention to it to human rights violations.I mean there’s no doubt that’s the reason we’re being bought, but how does it work.

 

You see all of the comments on here and on Twitter from Newcastle fans excusing or deflecting away from Saudi human rights abuses who wouldn't be doing any excusing or deflecting if they weren't buying the football team they support? That's just one part of how it works. Once they revitalise the region that's another step among people who might not even necessarily follow football - 'say what you will about the Saudis, but they've done wonders for the region' will be something we're likely to hear a lot imo.

 

This is a good article on it - https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-uae-sports-washing-199116

 

It works both ways though. By adopting a British football club they also have to buy into how we do sport. When they show Newcastle matches in Saudi Arabia, they'll be seeing women at football games, probably the odd close up of someone swilling lager, etc. All this filters back into their society as well, hopefully it will improve it.

 

The alternative is to be like Isis or North Korea, and just ban everything and refuse interaction with the outside world full stop. Same goes for us, we could also, as a country, just tell Saudi Arabia to do one, but we don't, if anything they are key trade partners.

 

Does that mean their regime is any less reprehensible? No, but it does show that when we as a country aren't prepared to put our foot down because it suits our interests not to, then it's not the job of Newcastle fans to f*** over our own club to satisfy Martin Samuels and other c***s like him.

 

No one has said it's our responsibility of our fans to do anything tbf, just that we shouldn't be manipulated into excusing or glorifying their actions because they might improve the fortunes of our favourite football team.

 

The alternative is to be like Isis or North Korea, and just ban everything and refuse interaction with the outside world full stop. Same goes for us, we could also, as a country, just tell Saudi Arabia to do one, but we don't, if anything they are key trade partners.

 

Having interaction isn't the issue though, it's the nature of the interaction. If the interactions our country is having with the Saudi's was part of a U.N Human Rights improvement initiative or something, fair enough, but our country's interaction has been to sell them weapons so they can bomb children's hospitals in Yemen, and our club and city's interaction will likely be to overlook their human rights record because they've improved our material interests.

 

It works both ways though. By adopting a British football club they also have to buy into how we do sport. When they show Newcastle matches in Saudi Arabia, they'll be seeing women at football games, probably the odd close up of someone swilling lager, etc. All this filters back into their society as well, hopefully it will improve it.

 

I don't think we should underestimate how comfortable power is with having blatant double standards. The man who's buying the club who you say will have to buy in our way of doing sport, currently has a Saudi princess under house arrest for wanting exactly the reforms and improvements you're saying could filter back to their society and improve it.

 

Well, I am under no illusion that the Saudis have suddenly decided to overthrow everything they stand for and adopt western standards wholesale. They are still deeply invested in their own culture, the princess under house arrest is a prime example of it. But I still believe that being exposed to a British football club on their tv will also expose their public to rights they don't have at home. Maybe an unintended consequence which they would rather not entertain, but it's there nonetheless.

 

That said, I don't want to sugarcoat anything or justify what goes on over there. I just want owners who will invest properly in the city and NUFC, and put us back where we belong, and PIF are probably one of the few investors in this day and age who will be able to do it. I'm not going to start making excuses for their regime, but at the same time I will admit I am going to enjoy watching our team again, no two ways about it.

[Kid Icarus]

Don't begrudge anyone that at all like.

[Deuce]

With all the injustice in the world and all the murder of innocent civilians in every war going on now (nevermind what's gone on in the past), it's the takeover of a football club that raises the alarms? f*** off. Seriously. Until every self-righteous SOB takes it up with their MP's and governments to stop human rights abuses the world over, you can save your PC bollocks for something that actually makes a difference.

 

All this post has done is just show everyone that you've never been in the chat section tbh. There's quite literally a thread on the Saudi's that's been there since 2015 and likewise the U.S thread. Plenty on here put the graft in for political parties, organisations, charities, and in QuakesMag's case has even made documentaries about this sort of stuff. You're just showing your own ignorance by assuming this has only been brought up now tbh.

 

Again though, framing not wanting the football club to be owned by literal murders isn't a PC bollocks like. It's just not.

 

:thup:

[BennyBlanco]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/saudi-activists-dispute-official-narrative-hwaiti-killing-200417103626920.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52326130

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/14/bae-systems-sold-15bn-arms-to-saudis-during-yemen-assault

 

Yup, aware of all of that. Still doesn't detract from my point.

All those are from this month they aren't looking to change man.

 

Change doesn't come overnight though does it? It's going to be a slow process.

No it does not but I'll wait till they've stopped murdering people before I think they are on any path to redemption.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find any country on the geo-political stage that doesn't have people murdered. They were just stupid enough to get caught!

[Ankles Bennett]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

 

I completely agree with this .

[D. Yimentov]

What tactic do you think Amanda go for in the press conference?

 

1. I'm not hear to discuss politics.

 

2. Saudi Arabia is a fantastic country and the prince is lush.

 

3. Mmm... dry biscuits.

 

 

[Rafalove]

Be interesting to see how they explain it like if they’re successful it will be a or masterstroke

[loki679]

What tactic do you think Amanda go for in the press conference?

 

1. I'm not hear to discuss politics.

 

2. Saudi Arabia is a fantastic country and the prince is lush.

 

3. Mmm... dry biscuits.

 

 

 

Probably not bacon at least

[Rompe]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/saudi-activists-dispute-official-narrative-hwaiti-killing-200417103626920.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52326130

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/14/bae-systems-sold-15bn-arms-to-saudis-during-yemen-assault

 

Yup, aware of all of that. Still doesn't detract from my point.

All those are from this month they aren't looking to change man.

 

Change doesn't come overnight though does it? It's going to be a slow process.

No it does not but I'll wait till they've stopped murdering people before I think they are on any path to redemption.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find any country on the geo-political stage that doesn't have people murdered. They were just stupid enough to get caught!

 

Can people just stop with this line of reasoning? Yes there are other countries in the world who are horrible, none of them are buying us. in fact I can't recall another club being owned by a foreign country at all, so it is completely irrelevant.

[Guest chicken little]

also it could stop overnight because the country is a fucking absolute monarchy.

[xLiaaamx]

My view on it is this. You don't make moves like they are doing without expecting the spot light to shine on the country and those running it. The plan is to open the country up to more tourism and to shed its previous image of a hermit oil state that really only travelled to for Hajj - this can only be a good thing. In my opinion this shows willing to engage with the wider world - am I comfortable with the things they have done? No, not at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the things that China have done in recent years and the premier league seems more than happy to accept Chinese investment.

 

Let the Saudis buy us, let them showcase their wealth and yes, let them use us a vehicle to life their countries profile. If their endgame is to open themselves up the world, with all the scrutiny that that brings, then this is surely a sign that they are looking to move away from their past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/saudi-activists-dispute-official-narrative-hwaiti-killing-200417103626920.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52326130

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/14/bae-systems-sold-15bn-arms-to-saudis-during-yemen-assault

 

Yup, aware of all of that. Still doesn't detract from my point.

All those are from this month they aren't looking to change man.

 

Change doesn't come overnight though does it? It's going to be a slow process.

No it does not but I'll wait till they've stopped murdering people before I think they are on any path to redemption.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find any country on the geo-political stage that doesn't have people murdered. They were just stupid enough to get caught!

 

Can people just stop with this line of reasoning? Yes there are other countries in the world who are horrible, none of them are buying us. in fact I can't recall another club being owned by a foreign country at all, so it is completely irrelevant.

 

Don't know about owning football clubs but I know Bahrain's investment fund owns the McLaren F1 team. Which I was surpised by as they have done for decades but they're still painted as the small underdog from britain

[themanupstairs]

With all the injustice in the world and all the murder of innocent civilians in every war going on now (nevermind what's gone on in the past), it's the takeover of a football club that raises the alarms? f*** off. Seriously. Until every self-righteous SOB takes it up with their MP's and governments to stop human rights abuses the world over, you can save your PC bollocks for something that actually makes a difference.

 

All this post has done is just show everyone that you've never been in the chat section tbh. There's quite literally a thread on the Saudi's that's been there since 2015 and likewise the U.S thread. Plenty on here put the graft in for political parties, organisations, charities, and in QuakesMag's case has even made documentaries about this sort of stuff. You're just showing your own ignorance by assuming this has only been brought up now tbh.

 

Again though, framing not wanting the football club to be owned by literal murders isn't a PC bollocks like. It's just not.

 

I've been in the chat section plenty in the past thank you very much. I'm far more aware of the atrocities committed by the Saudi regime than even the likes of QM.

 

My point was regarding the emerging noises in the London press who are suddenly questioning the morality of NUFC fans for getting excited about a takeover of their club. These hypocrites never made a peep about the vicious Saudi regime until stories of this takeover began to come out. The Saudi regime, along with the American and British for that matter, have been committing atrocities for decades. These wankers don't mind all the killing but strongly oppose the takeover of a football club?

[triggs]

With all the injustice in the world and all the murder of innocent civilians in every war going on now (nevermind what's gone on in the past), it's the takeover of a football club that raises the alarms? f*** off. Seriously. Until every self-righteous SOB takes it up with their MP's and governments to stop human rights abuses the world over, you can save your PC bollocks for something that actually makes a difference.

 

All this post has done is just show everyone that you've never been in the chat section tbh. There's quite literally a thread on the Saudi's that's been there since 2015 and likewise the U.S thread. Plenty on here put the graft in for political parties, organisations, charities, and in QuakesMag's case has even made documentaries about this sort of stuff. You're just showing your own ignorance by assuming this has only been brought up now tbh.

 

Again though, framing not wanting the football club to be owned by literal murders isn't a PC bollocks like. It's just not.

 

I've been in the chat section plenty in the past thank you very much. I'm far more aware of the atrocities committed by the Saudi regime than even the likes of QM.

 

My point was regarding the emerging noises in the London press who are suddenly questioning the morality of NUFC fans for getting excited about a takeover of their club. These hypocrites never made a peep about the vicious Saudi regime until stories of this takeover began to come out. The Saudi regime, along with the American and British for that matter, have been committing atrocities for decades. These wankers don't mind all the killing but strongly oppose the takeover of a football club?

 

You do realise they're football journalists, aye? They don't get paid to write about the atrocities committed by whatever country. However, when one of those countries takes over a football club, it becomes relevant to a football journalist.