Success at what cost?

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

This is all getting very messy.

 

Neither side is going to pipe down and Delaney isn't exactly covering himself in glory here. We don't need Uber to be able to live.

 

[Greg]

Some of the opinions expressed, primarily on Twitter, are horrific. Building on what's been said on here it is very much possible to be excited about the end of Mike Ashley and the prospect of becoming an ambitions footballing entity again while having serious reservations about the track record of our prospective new owners and on a human and societal level being concerned about human rights issues in Saudi Arabia. Journalists highlighting this shouldn't be shot down and some of the stuff on Twitter is a joke, but equally Newcastle fans cannot and should not be blamed for this.

 

Building on some very good earlier posts in this thread, many Newcastle fans will have concerns about the human rights record of Saudi Arabia, as do fans of many other clubs but this is not a footballing issue. It's not impossible to be excited by Ashley's departure, enthusiastic about Newcastle United once again being interested in moving forward and acquiring some sporting ambition for the first time in 13 years and still feel concerned about human rights issues wherever they occur in the world. These feelings aren't exclusive. You can subscribe to both of them. Newcastle fans do not hold power here nor should they. Human rights issues is not something for football fans to deal with. Be aware of, yes of course, but not to deal with and attempt to fix. Wider concerns about human rights should be put to the government not to football supporters. The UK government welcomes Saudi Arabia with open arms, as does our monarchy. 

 

The idea that fans bear some sort of responsibility for who buys our club is absurd. We didn't choose Mike Ashley and we don't choose our new owners, it's not a preference, not a political allegiance, it is modern football in 2020. We support Newcastle United Football Club, founded in 1892, not the owner. The supporters will be here before and after any owners are gone. But it is very much right to have concerns. Some of rhetoric on here and Twitter shows some up for the little morals they have.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Greg

 

I think people are confused because of the hatred of Ashley as well. We hate Ashley because he killed the football club, being a horrific person and using slave labour was very much a secondary reason.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Some of the opinions expressed, primarily on Twitter, are horrific. Building on what's been said on here it is very much possible to be excited about the end of Mike Ashley and the prospect of becoming an ambitions footballing entity again while having serious reservations about the track record of our prospective new owners and on a human and societal level being concerned about human rights issues in Saudi Arabia. Journalists highlighting this shouldn't be shot down and some of the stuff on Twitter is a joke, but equally Newcastle fans cannot and should not be blamed for this.

 

Building on some very good earlier posts in this thread, many Newcastle fans will have concerns about the human rights record of Saudi Arabia, as do fans of many other clubs but this is not a footballing issue. It's not impossible to be excited by Ashley's departure, enthusiastic about Newcastle United once again being interested in moving forward and acquiring some sporting ambition for the first time in 13 years and still feel concerned about human rights issues wherever they occur in the world. These feelings aren't exclusive. You can subscribe to both of them. Newcastle fans do not hold power here nor should they. Human rights issues is not something for football fans to deal with. Be aware of, yes of course, but not to deal with and attempt to fix. Wider concerns about human rights should be put to the government not to football supporters. The UK government welcomes Saudi Arabia with open arms, as does our monarchy. 

 

The idea that fans bear some sort of responsibility for who buys our club is absurd. We didn't choose Mike Ashley and we don't choose our new owners, it's not a preference, not a political allegiance, it is modern football in 2020. We support Newcastle United Football Club, founded in 1892, not the owner and the supporters and we will be here before and after any owners are gone. But it is very much right to have concerns. Some of rhetoric on here and Twitter shows some up for the little morals they have.

 

[Wullie]

Some of the opinions expressed, primarily on Twitter, are horrific. Building on what's been said on here it is very much possible to be excited about the end of Mike Ashley and the prospect of becoming an ambitions footballing entity again while having serious reservations about the track record of our prospective new owners and on a human and societal level being concerned about human rights issues in Saudi Arabia. Journalists highlighting this shouldn't be shot down and some of the stuff on Twitter is a joke, but equally Newcastle fans cannot and should not be blamed for this.

 

Building on some very good earlier posts in this thread, many Newcastle fans will have concerns about the human rights record of Saudi Arabia, as do fans of many other clubs but this is not a footballing issue. It's not impossible to be excited by Ashley's departure, enthusiastic about Newcastle United once again being interested in moving forward and acquiring some sporting ambition for the first time in 13 years and still feel concerned about human rights issues wherever they occur in the world. These feelings aren't exclusive. You can subscribe to both of them. Newcastle fans do not hold power here nor should they. Human rights issues is not something for football fans to deal with. Be aware of, yes of course, but not to deal with and attempt to fix. Wider concerns about human rights should be put to the government not to football supporters. The UK government welcomes Saudi Arabia with open arms, as does our monarchy. 

 

The idea that fans bear some sort of responsibility for who buys our club is absurd. We didn't choose Mike Ashley and we don't choose our new owners, it's not a preference, not a political allegiance, it is modern football in 2020. We support Newcastle United Football Club, founded in 1892, not the owner. The supporters will be here before and after any owners are gone. But it is very much right to have concerns. Some of rhetoric on here and Twitter shows some up for the little morals they have.

 

Yeah well put.

 

It's the whataboutery I really can't stand.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Some of the opinions expressed, primarily on Twitter, are horrific. Building on what's been said on here it is very much possible to be excited about the end of Mike Ashley and the prospect of becoming an ambitions footballing entity again while having serious reservations about the track record of our prospective new owners and on a human and societal level being concerned about human rights issues in Saudi Arabia. Journalists highlighting this shouldn't be shot down and some of the stuff on Twitter is a joke, but equally Newcastle fans cannot and should not be blamed for this.

 

Building on some very good earlier posts in this thread, many Newcastle fans will have concerns about the human rights record of Saudi Arabia, as do fans of many other clubs but this is not a footballing issue. It's not impossible to be excited by Ashley's departure, enthusiastic about Newcastle United once again being interested in moving forward and acquiring some sporting ambition for the first time in 13 years and still feel concerned about human rights issues wherever they occur in the world. These feelings aren't exclusive. You can subscribe to both of them. Newcastle fans do not hold power here nor should they. Human rights issues is not something for football fans to deal with. Be aware of, yes of course, but not to deal with and attempt to fix. Wider concerns about human rights should be put to the government not to football supporters. The UK government welcomes Saudi Arabia with open arms, as does our monarchy. 

 

The idea that fans bear some sort of responsibility for who buys our club is absurd. We didn't choose Mike Ashley and we don't choose our new owners, it's not a preference, not a political allegiance, it is modern football in 2020. We support Newcastle United Football Club, founded in 1892, not the owner. The supporters will be here before and after any owners are gone. But it is very much right to have concerns. Some of rhetoric on here and Twitter shows some up for the little morals they have.

 

Well said.

 

That's basically where I'm at with it.

[NEEJ]

One of the most annoying things to come out of all this is journalists using the "you think Ashley was reprehensible, this lot are on a whole other level!" argument. The hatred for Ashley stems from the absolutely shameful way he, often deliberately, mismanaged the club, not his other misdemeanours. Had he approached things in the correct way there would never have been calls for his head (pardon the pun), regardless of how disgraceful the conditions were for workers in his tat warehouses. We all know that.

 

My overall take on this is that we as fans should enjoy the ride we look set to go on, whilst refraining from fawning over the Saudi royal family as our wonderful saviours. We form the bottom rung on this fucked-up ladder and there's very little that we can do that would affect matters. Be mindful of where the investment is coming from by all means, and don't fly the Saudi flag in your social media names like some weird obsessive teenagers, but don't feel guilty for supporting your club. We've waited a very long time for this.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Having mulled this over for a few days I've kind of reached a settled view on it.

 

It cannot be right that you should have to, or be expected to, forfeit your support for your football club by virtue of who happens to be rich enough to afford it.

 

The difficulty here is that the new owners are highly undesirable. I have no time for arguments about the actions of other Nations or organisations. Quite simply the Saudi Regime is abhorrent by western standards. Women and Minorities are oppressed to a ridiculous degree. There is precious little democratic participation, peaceful freedom of speech is cracked down upon. Torture is commonplace and systematic in order to maintain a pretty bleak status quo. What goes on in other areas, by other States or Corporations can not circumvent the quite legitimate criticisms of Saudi Arabia.

 

This leaves supporters in a difficult position morally. The faults of Saudi Arabia should not be laid at the feet of Newcastle supporters. We are not responsible for what goes on in the Kingdom. It is far more equitable to question the role of the Premier League in allowing Sovereign States as questionable as Saudi Arabia to buy football clubs in the United Kingdom. Even then, sport has traditionally been apoltical and for good reason. Morality has long been absent from the Premier League.

 

I will continue to support the team, but there will be an awkward reluctance to it. I will look to not put money directly into the club.  I would hope that fans who like me continue to support the team continue to recognise the deep problems with the owners and do not glamorise or gloss over the evils of the house of Saud.

 

I hope their ownership presents an opportunity to generate more criticism and discussion of the regime and its practices. Newcastle fans can be an important part of that without forfeiting their right to support their club.

[Guest neesy111]

Having mulled this over for a few days I've kind of reached a settled view on it.

 

It cannot be right that you should have to, or be expected to, forfeit your support for your football club by virtue of who happens to be rich enough to afford it.

 

The difficulty here is that the new owners are highly undesirable. I have no time for arguments about the actions of other Nations or organisations. Quite simply the Saudi Regime is abhorrent by western standards. Women and Minorities are oppressed to a ridiculous degree. There is precious little democratic participation, peaceful freedom of speech is cracked down upon and torture is commonplace and systematic in order to maintain a pretty bleak status quo. What goes on in other areas, by other states or corporations can not circumvent the quite legitimate criticisms of Saudi Arabia.

 

This leaves supporters in a difficult position morally. The faults of Saudi Arabia should not be laid at the feet of Newcastle supporters. We are not responsible for what goes on in the Kingdom. It is fair more equitable to question the role of the Premier League in allowing Sovereign States as questionable as Saudi Arabia to buy football clubs in the United Kingdom. Even then, sport has traditionally been apoltical and for good reason. Morality has long been absent from the Premier League.

 

I will continue to support the team, but there will be an awkward reluctance to it. I will look to not put money directly into the club.  I would hope that fans who like me continue to support the team continue to recognise the deep problems with the owners and do not glamorise or gloss over the evils of the house of Saud.

 

I hope their ownership presents an opportunity to generate more criticism and discussion of the regime and its practices. Newcastle fans can be an important part of that without forfeiting their right to support their club.

 

 

This is very similar to my POV.

[Wullie]

Best post so far on this from SGTF I think, particularly the point about the Premier League.

[Tiresias]

Some of the opinions expressed, primarily on Twitter, are horrific. Building on what's been said on here it is very much possible to be excited about the end of Mike Ashley and the prospect of becoming an ambitions footballing entity again while having serious reservations about the track record of our prospective new owners and on a human and societal level being concerned about human rights issues in Saudi Arabia. Journalists highlighting this shouldn't be shot down and some of the stuff on Twitter is a joke, but equally Newcastle fans cannot and should not be blamed for this.

 

Building on some very good earlier posts in this thread, many Newcastle fans will have concerns about the human rights record of Saudi Arabia, as do fans of many other clubs but this is not a footballing issue. It's not impossible to be excited by Ashley's departure, enthusiastic about Newcastle United once again being interested in moving forward and acquiring some sporting ambition for the first time in 13 years and still feel concerned about human rights issues wherever they occur in the world. These feelings aren't exclusive. You can subscribe to both of them. Newcastle fans do not hold power here nor should they. Human rights issues is not something for football fans to deal with. Be aware of, yes of course, but not to deal with and attempt to fix. Wider concerns about human rights should be put to the government not to football supporters. The UK government welcomes Saudi Arabia with open arms, as does our monarchy. 

 

The idea that fans bear some sort of responsibility for who buys our club is absurd. We didn't choose Mike Ashley and we don't choose our new owners, it's not a preference, not a political allegiance, it is modern football in 2020. We support Newcastle United Football Club, founded in 1892, not the owner. The supporters will be here before and after any owners are gone. But it is very much right to have concerns. Some of rhetoric on here and Twitter shows some up for the little morals they have.

 

So much this. I have no idea why so many seem to think that it is wrong to not suddenly be in love with saudi arabia and assume we're thick enough not to know there's horrendous immorality everywhere. It is a side effect of the desperate cash grab that is modern sport that folk like Saudi Arabia get involved, and that it is so financially expensive noone but billionaire twats can. This does not mean a) I'm any more of a hypocrite than anyone b) I am not looking forward to having a club with ambition again. Having misgivings and concerns about how things are going and also having hope is not just not unusual it is quite frankly way more normal than people desperate to give Mohammed Bin Salman teh nobel peace prize right now.

[Greg]

Having mulled this over for a few days I've kind of reached a settled view on it.

 

It cannot be right that you should have to, or be expected to, forfeit your support for your football club by virtue of who happens to be rich enough to afford it.

 

The difficulty here is that the new owners are highly undesirable. I have no time for arguments about the actions of other Nations or organisations. Quite simply the Saudi Regime is abhorrent by western standards. Women and Minorities are oppressed to a ridiculous degree. There is precious little democratic participation, peaceful freedom of speech is cracked down upon and torture is commonplace and systematic in order to maintain a pretty bleak status quo. What goes on in other areas, by other states or corporations can not circumvent the quite legitimate criticisms of Saudi Arabia.

 

This leaves supporters in a difficult position morally. The faults of Saudi Arabia should not be laid at the feet of Newcastle supporters. We are not responsible for what goes on in the Kingdom. It is fair more equitable to question the role of the Premier League in allowing Sovereign States as questionable as Saudi Arabia to buy football clubs in the United Kingdom. Even then, sport has traditionally been apoltical and for good reason. Morality has long been absent from the Premier League.

 

I will continue to support the team, but there will be an awkward reluctance to it. I will look to not put money directly into the club.  I would hope that fans who like me continue to support the team continue to recognise the deep problems with the owners and do not glamorise or gloss over the evils of the house of Saud.

 

I hope their ownership presents an opportunity to generate more criticism and discussion of the regime and its practices. Newcastle fans can be an important part of that without forfeiting their right to support their club.

 

Good post and fair point on the Premier League, but when the UK government welcomes them with open arms and actively encourages trade this is not going to happen and this sort of change needs to come from the very top.

 

Current UK Government position.

 

Our mission

 

We develop and maintain the long-standing relationship between the UK and Saudi Arabia. We build on the bilateral relationship between our two governments and peoples, especially in the areas of trade and investment, education, culture, energy and climate security, and defence.

[Guest neesy111]

Best post so far on this from SGTF I think, particularly the point about the Premier League.

 

 

I think the Premier League might be in for a bit of shock after we get back to normality in terms of the bubble bursting when it comes to income. 

 

 

Not sure if it's just me, but I really haven't missed football at all.

[themanupstairs]

I’m going to back away as this feels more like a conversation over a pint than in a forum.  I’m arguing one side as I’m frustrated with the Newcastle bias. This is making people jump to quite large conclusion on where my moral compass lies. I don’t have energy to write long posts justifying everything.

 

I think you either accept it or you don't,  as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives.

Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light.

 

Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Agree wholeheartedly, Greg. The most meaningful and significant pressure should come from the UK Govt, football pales in comparison.

[Kid Icarus]

I’m going to back away as this feels more like a conversation over a pint than in a forum.  I’m arguing one side as I’m frustrated with the Newcastle bias. This is making people jump to quite large conclusion on where my moral compass lies. I don’t have energy to write long posts justifying everything.

 

I think you either accept it or you don't,  as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives.

Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light.

 

Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in.

 

You still talking about journalists here?

[Guest neesy111]

Agree wholeheartedly, Greg. The most meaningful and significant pressure should come from the UK Govt, football pales in comparison.

 

 

Sadly nothing will change with the current lot in government, it'll probably get worse as they scramble for any trade deal possible.

 

The best thing we can hope for is it brings many people aware of what the abuses Saudi Arabia are doing.

[Si]

Having mulled this over for a few days I've kind of reached a settled view on it.

 

It cannot be right that you should have to, or be expected to, forfeit your support for your football club by virtue of who happens to be rich enough to afford it.

 

The difficulty here is that the new owners are highly undesirable. I have no time for arguments about the actions of other Nations or organisations. Quite simply the Saudi Regime is abhorrent by western standards. Women and Minorities are oppressed to a ridiculous degree. There is precious little democratic participation, peaceful freedom of speech is cracked down upon and torture is commonplace and systematic in order to maintain a pretty bleak status quo. What goes on in other areas, by other states or corporations can not circumvent the quite legitimate criticisms of Saudi Arabia.

 

This leaves supporters in a difficult position morally. The faults of Saudi Arabia should not be laid at the feet of Newcastle supporters. We are not responsible for what goes on in the Kingdom. It is fair more equitable to question the role of the Premier League in allowing Sovereign States as questionable as Saudi Arabia to buy football clubs in the United Kingdom. Even then, sport has traditionally been apoltical and for good reason. Morality has long been absent from the Premier League.

 

I will continue to support the team, but there will be an awkward reluctance to it. I will look to not put money directly into the club.  I would hope that fans who like me continue to support the team continue to recognise the deep problems with the owners and do not glamorise or gloss over the evils of the house of Saud.

 

I hope their ownership presents an opportunity to generate more criticism and discussion of the regime and its practices. Newcastle fans can be an important part of that without forfeiting their right to support their club.

 

Good post and fair point on the Premier League, but when the UK government welcomes them with open arms and actively encourages trade this is not going to happen and this sort of change needs to come from the very top.

 

Current UK Government position.

 

Our mission

 

We develop and maintain the long-standing relationship between the UK and Saudi Arabia. We build on the bilateral relationship between our two governments and peoples, especially in the areas of trade and investment, education, culture, energy and climate security, and defence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/26/truss-admits-uk-breached-court-order-banning-arm-sales-to-saudis-again

 

The government are complicit with them. Can't rely on them to servant benchmark or morality.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Having mulled this over for a few days I've kind of reached a settled view on it.

 

It cannot be right that you should have to, or be expected to, forfeit your support for your football club by virtue of who happens to be rich enough to afford it.

 

The difficulty here is that the new owners are highly undesirable. I have no time for arguments about the actions of other Nations or organisations. Quite simply the Saudi Regime is abhorrent by western standards. Women and Minorities are oppressed to a ridiculous degree. There is precious little democratic participation, peaceful freedom of speech is cracked down upon. Torture is commonplace and systematic in order to maintain a pretty bleak status quo. What goes on in other areas, by other States or Corporations can not circumvent the quite legitimate criticisms of Saudi Arabia.

 

This leaves supporters in a difficult position morally. The faults of Saudi Arabia should not be laid at the feet of Newcastle supporters. We are not responsible for what goes on in the Kingdom. It is far more equitable to question the role of the Premier League in allowing Sovereign States as questionable as Saudi Arabia to buy football clubs in the United Kingdom. Even then, sport has traditionally been apoltical and for good reason. Morality has long been absent from the Premier League.

 

I will continue to support the team, but there will be an awkward reluctance to it. I will look to not put money directly into the club.  I would hope that fans who like me continue to support the team continue to recognise the deep problems with the owners and do not glamorise or gloss over the evils of the house of Saud.

 

I hope their ownership presents an opportunity to generate more criticism and discussion of the regime and its practices. Newcastle fans can be an important part of that without forfeiting their right to support their club.

 

Another excellent post.

 

I’m not sure where my views lie yet. I’d just be happy if this brought about significant investment into the club in terms of facilities and the city that improved our grassroots level game, the club’s foundation and of course brought in employment and economic growth to the area the most probably.

[Sean]

They're worse than Ashley, but I still want them to buy the club.

 

We can oppose things that our owners do away from football, without having to also oppose them for ruining our club and refusing to sell for a decade.

 

I believe this is the thread for this debate also, rather than in every single thread.

[themanupstairs]

I’m going to back away as this feels more like a conversation over a pint than in a forum.  I’m arguing one side as I’m frustrated with the Newcastle bias. This is making people jump to quite large conclusion on where my moral compass lies. I don’t have energy to write long posts justifying everything.

 

I think you either accept it or you don't,  as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives.

Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light.

 

Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in.

 

You still talking about journalists here?

 

I'm talking about people who are wagging their disapproving fingers at NUFC fans over this takeover, be they journalists, own fans or other clubs' fans.

 

Suddenly internet people have moral issues with the Saudi government? Is the concern for the victims genuine or is it just a fashionable topic to pontificate on? If the concern is genuine what have these people done to put pressure on their own governments to stop actively aiding this regime? Do any of these people actually know the history of the kingdom and how it came to be? Perhaps a slight in-depth understanding of this history might shed a bit of light on the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

 

My overall point is that there's no doubt the Saudis are an oppressive extremist regime who can't be allowed to carry on what they've been doing for decades. Not only on a local but also a regional and international scale. The responsibility of that doesn't lie anywhere near Newcastle United fans though. And if people are happy to turn a blind eye to crimes of other nations/owners/criminals in their sport or league then they can also leave NUFC well the fuck alone to get on with it.

[Deuce]

We seem to have synthicized the criticism into this red herring of “Newcastle fans, by not being critical of the new owners, bear tacit responsibility for the transgressions of the Saudi regime.” Not a single person has suggested that.

 

“Enjoy the club’s success, but don’t be a disingenuous dickhead when it comes to highlighting the source of that success,” is a more accurate distillation of the point we’ve been making.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I’m going to back away as this feels more like a conversation over a pint than in a forum.  I’m arguing one side as I’m frustrated with the Newcastle bias. This is making people jump to quite large conclusion on where my moral compass lies. I don’t have energy to write long posts justifying everything.

 

I think you either accept it or you don't,  as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives.

Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light.

 

Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in.

 

You still talking about journalists here?

 

I'm talking about people who are wagging their disapproving fingers at NUFC fans over this takeover, be they journalists, own fans or other clubs' fans.

 

Suddenly internet people have moral issues with the Saudi government? Is the concern for the victims genuine or is it just a fashionable topic to pontificate on? If the concern is genuine what have these people done to put pressure on their own governments to stop actively aiding this regime? Do any of these people actually know the history of the kingdom and how it came to be? Perhaps a slight in-depth understanding of this history might shed a bit of light on the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

 

My overall point is that there's no doubt the Saudis are an oppressive extremist regime who can't be allowed to carry on what they've been doing for decades. Not only on a local but also a regional and international scale. The responsibility of that doesn't lie anywhere near Newcastle United fans though. And if people are happy to turn a blind eye to crimes of other nations/owners/criminals in their sport or league then they can also leave NUFC well the fuck alone to get on with it.

 

Does this matter? I appreciate its unpalatable to be lectured by armchair pundits but it doesn't mean there isn't a good point at the heart of it. If the truth becomes fashionable should it be ignored?

[Wullie]

I’m going to back away as this feels more like a conversation over a pint than in a forum.  I’m arguing one side as I’m frustrated with the Newcastle bias. This is making people jump to quite large conclusion on where my moral compass lies. I don’t have energy to write long posts justifying everything.

 

I think you either accept it or you don't,  as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives.

Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light.

 

Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in.

 

You still talking about journalists here?

 

I'm talking about people who are wagging their disapproving fingers at NUFC fans over this takeover, be they journalists, own fans or other clubs' fans.

 

Suddenly internet people have moral issues with the Saudi government? Is the concern for the victims genuine or is it just a fashionable topic to pontificate on? If the concern is genuine what have these people done to put pressure on their own governments to stop actively aiding this regime?

 

Why does it come as a surprise to you that people are more concerned with something they hold dear to their heart than something they don't?

 

It's important to me that NUFC is something to be proud of. I think it's the most important factor for me. It hasn't been for some years, but it is in serious danger of being even less so under the prospective new owners given their past and present. I don't think I need to have a long history of campaigning against Saudi Arabia to feel that way.

 

If my mother suddenly decides to marry a serial killer and I'm not happy about it, an argument of "well I didn't hear you complain when he married his last wife!" doesn't hold a great deal of water.

[D. Yimentov]

We seem to have synthicized the criticism into this red herring of “Newcastle fans, by not being critical of the new owners, bear tacit responsibility for the transgressions of the Saudi regime.” Not a single person has suggested that.

 

“Enjoy the club’s success, but don’t be a disingenuous dickhead when it comes to highlighting the source of that success,” is a more accurate distillation of the point we’ve been making.

 

An interesting question to ask though, is how many people would be willing to actively protest against them when Haaland, Mbappe and Matty Longstaff are lashing the goals in?