Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 All systems go now, hopefully all done and dusted before the friendly derby on Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I get that but what I mean is it’s not a crime as such so should in no way be enough for them to block the takeover. Nothing can block the takeover. That's not what the PL are potentially doing. They're saying that if the takeover happens, Newcastle can't play in the PL because MBS (presumably) is on their "not allowed" list. Newcastle then have to choose between the takeover, which legally cannot be stopped, and playing in the PL, which is nothing but a glorified members club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest godzilla Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Stupid question probably, but what right do the league or anyone for that matter have, to tell or expect the Saudi government to have done more to stop piracy? Simply down to lost revenue so money I get that but what I mean is it’s not a crime as such so should in no way be enough for them to block the takeover. Totally agree, I was expecting the report to at least complicity implicate the Saudi Government and possibly even PIF in the direct operation of BeOutQ, it didn't though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Stupid question probably, but what right do the league or anyone for that matter have, to tell or expect the Saudi government to have done more to stop piracy? Simply down to lost revenue so money I get that but what I mean is it’s not a crime as such so should in no way be enough for them to block the takeover. Totally agree, I was expecting the report to at least complicity implicate the Saudi Government and possibly even PIF in the direct operation of BeOutQ, it didn't though Yeah that’s what I took from it too, if so I don’t see how they can block it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I’ve just read through a bunch of the report, and to me it DOES say that Saudi state are complicit, so I’m not sure why people are moaning at the BBC? Link? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I wonder how long we'll have to wait now.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Stupid question probably, but what right do the league or anyone for that matter have, to tell or expect the Saudi government to have done more to stop piracy? WTO have that right. PL just have their test, part of which is not having been involved with piracy, which imo this report is miles from proving as far as PIF is concerned. The problem is, from what I gather, the Premier league don't need watertight "proof" to reject it; if they think that the Saudis are responsible (either proactively or by turning a blind eye) or that they're not doing enough, they can reject the takeover on the grounds of reasonable belief. I've read plenty to contradict the above as well mind, and the money that's already been put down may well cause a legal shitstorm, so who knows. (Nobody, it seems) It's clearly up in the air, but at the stage we're now at I don't really understand those who are jumping on people with a more negative perspective, at the moment the takeover is clearly in the balance and could go either way. It's certainly not a cast iron certainty that it will go through and this place will be a mess if it doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I wonder how long we'll have to wait now.. I honestly think they won't make a decision once the season restarts. So tomorrow or end of season for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Stupid question probably, but what right do the league or anyone for that matter have, to tell or expect the Saudi government to have done more to stop piracy? WTO have that right. PL just have their test, part of which is not having been involved with piracy, which imo this report is miles from proving as far as PIF is concerned. The problem is, from what I gather, the Premier league don't need watertight "proof" to reject it; if they think that the Saudis are responsible (either proactively or by turning a blind eye) or that they're not doing enough, they can reject the takeover on the grounds of reasonable belief. I've read plenty to contradict the above as well mind, and the money that's already been put down may well cause a legal shitstorm, so who knows. (Nobody, it seems) It's clearly up in the air, but at the stage we're now at I don't really understand those who are jumping on people with a more negative perspective, at the moment the takeover is clearly in the balance and could go either way. It's certainly not a cast iron certainty that it will go through and this place will be a mess if it doesn't. ultimately the premier league is a members club not a court of law so they can reject it on reasonable belief with their wording in their rule-book being so vague, the issue is if it is rejected it could end up in court which could create a whole load of problems for them down the line beyond this takeover Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Heard it through the grapevine... 6:01 p.m. tomorrow. This stopped being funny after the 1st time, no idea why people do this. FYP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Is the PL funded by the taxpayer at all? Just wondered what kind of leverage the U.K. government might have over this as I’m sure they’d tacitly want it to go through for economic/ geopolitical reasons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I get that but what I mean is it’s not a crime as such so should in no way be enough for them to block the takeover. Nothing can block the takeover. That's not what the PL are potentially doing. They're saying that if the takeover happens, Newcastle can't play in the PL because MBS (presumably) is on their "not allowed" list. Newcastle then have to choose between the takeover, which legally cannot be stopped, and playing in the PL, which is nothing but a glorified members club. What? Legally and sportingly the PL cannot object to anything or rather NUFC operating as a member club and business of theirs. Today’s ‘report’ is their get out of jail card, where they can say well that’s everything been exhausted on all sides, it’s a thumbs up. Case dismissed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I get that but what I mean is it’s not a crime as such so should in no way be enough for them to block the takeover. Nothing can block the takeover. That's not what the PL are potentially doing. They're saying that if the takeover happens, Newcastle can't play in the PL because MBS (presumably) is on their "not allowed" list. Newcastle then have to choose between the takeover, which legally cannot be stopped, and playing in the PL, which is nothing but a glorified members club. Don’t be daft, PIF’s lawyers will be all over this report forensically, and MBS won’t be sitting in the boardroom, he isn’t a named director of the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 BeIn's blackmail statements just don't make sense to me. Do they believe that A) The PL needs BeIn more than BeIn needs the PL, and B) That they're the only potential broadcaster for that region and will get another contract regardless? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Is the PL funded by the taxpayer at all? Just wondered what kind of leverage the U.K. government might have over this as I’m sure they’d tacitly want it to go through for economic/ geopolitical reasons The UK government won’t want the Saudis pissed of given the billions they spend here every year. The government can’t/won’t get involved but they can lean on the PL, not that we’ll get to know about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy Chop Chop Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I wonder how long we'll have to wait now.. I honestly think they won't make a decision once the season restarts. So tomorrow or end of season for me. [/quote Thats insane] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Stupid question probably, but what right do the league or anyone for that matter have, to tell or expect the Saudi government to have done more to stop piracy? WTO have that right. PL just have their test, part of which is not having been involved with piracy, which imo this report is miles from proving as far as PIF is concerned. The problem is, from what I gather, the Premier league don't need watertight "proof" to reject it; if they think that the Saudis are responsible (either proactively or by turning a blind eye) or that they're not doing enough, they can reject the takeover on the grounds of reasonable belief. I've read plenty to contradict the above as well mind, and the money that's already been put down may well cause a legal shitstorm, so who knows. (Nobody, it seems) It's clearly up in the air, but at the stage we're now at I don't really understand those who are jumping on people with a more negative perspective, at the moment the takeover is clearly in the balance and could go either way. It's certainly not a cast iron certainty that it will go through and this place will be a mess if it doesn't. That’s my understanding too. The O&D test gives the PL plenty of wiggle room to decide however they wish (legal challenge possible, but not very likely imo to revert their decision), so it basically comes down to: what do the PL want? Which let’s be honest is the one thing they exist to accomplish, which is to maximise their and the PL clubs’ revenue streams. The PL will use this as leverage to pit the Qataris and Saudis against each other commercially to strike the best possible TV deal they can when the current one expires. I believe BEIN’s reaction to the WTO report acknowledges and pre-empts that in a desperate last ditch attempt to create doubt in the PL’s mind that approving the takeover may see them walk from the negotiation table for the next round of talks. Will the PL buckle to their pressure or call their bluff? If they believe in their product they will do the latter imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Is the PL funded by the taxpayer at all? Just wondered what kind of leverage the U.K. government might have over this as I’m sure they’d tacitly want it to go through for economic/ geopolitical reasons The UK government won’t want the Saudis pissed of given the billions they spend here every year. The government can’t/won’t get involved but they can lean on the PL, not that we’ll get to know about it. Yes but what leverage can they use to lean on the PL. If there is no real leverage the PL don’t have to listen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Not sure how I feel about this at the moment. There's both negative and positive spin to take away from this report, and neither perspective is more accurate than the other. If it's a key factor in the premier league's decision I'd say this takeover is very much on a knife-edge at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if they told them to go away and come back in a year when they've done more to crack down on piracy. BeoutQ has been closed down, last August, what more can they do? Allow Qatar to prosecute the individuals concerned? That's basically what the entire WTO thing is about, Saudi Arabia's refusal to allow this to happen. There’s servers in the UK offering illegal streams, how many prosecutions do you hear of. It’s not easy to catch the perpetrators as you think and I guess it’s the same in any country. That's irrelevant. They've literally been denied the right to prosecute on the grounds of diplomacy, what, 9 times they've tried? So as to "what more could they do?" the answer is clear - Allow those prosecutions to take place. That's not saying they must convict, but they should at least have the right to be tested in a court. Have they arrested anyone? You presume that they know who the perpetrators are so enlighten me. There is an IP-focused report by the US Trade association from 2019 that confirms that arrests have been made and offices raided in Riyadh, concerning beoutQ. By who the Saudi Government? Yeah, I'll try to find it. https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2020_Special_301_Report.pdf Page 31: "BeoutQ, the notorious online and satellite piracy service reportedly operating out of Saudi Arabia, was taken offline in August 2019, and the Saudi Authority for Intellectual Property has since raided stores selling illicit streaming devices and conducted IP awareness campaigns to combat online piracy." The section on Saudi Arabia is on page 54. The report is actually from April 2020. It doesn't actually mention arrests but some sort of crackdown has apparently happened and the US are pretty much the only country that's allowed some forms of independent monitoring in KSA, so if anybody knows it's them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Not sure how I feel about this at the moment. There's both negative and positive spin to take away from this report, and neither perspective is more accurate than the other. If it's a key factor in the premier league's decision I'd say this takeover is very much on a knife-edge at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if they told them to go away and come back in a year when they've done more to crack down on piracy. BeoutQ has been closed down, last August, what more can they do? Allow Qatar to prosecute the individuals concerned? That's basically what the entire WTO thing is about, Saudi Arabia's refusal to allow this to happen. There’s servers in the UK offering illegal streams, how many prosecutions do you hear of. It’s not easy to catch the perpetrators as you think and I guess it’s the same in any country. That's irrelevant. They've literally been denied the right to prosecute on the grounds of diplomacy, what, 9 times they've tried? So as to "what more could they do?" the answer is clear - Allow those prosecutions to take place. That's not saying they must convict, but they should at least have the right to be tested in a court. Have they arrested anyone? You presume that they know who the perpetrators are so enlighten me. There is an IP-focused report by the US Trade association from 2019 that confirms that arrests have been made and offices raided in Riyadh, concerning beoutQ. By who the Saudi Government? Yeah, I'll try to find it. https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2020_Special_301_Report.pdf Page 31: "BeoutQ, the notorious online and satellite piracy service reportedly operating out of Saudi Arabia, was taken offline in August 2019, and the Saudi Authority for Intellectual Property has since raided stores selling illicit streaming devices and conducted IP awareness campaigns to combat online piracy." The section on Saudi Arabia is on page 54. The report is actually from April 2020. It doesn't actually mention arrests but some sort of crackdown has apparently happened and the US are pretty much the only country that's allowed some forms of independent monitoring in KSA, so if anybody knows it's them. Raiding stores selling set top boxes is a far cry from arresting the people behind it mind. I’m still far from convinced that even if BEIN had the option to use the KSA legal system they would have actually been able to go after anyone. I presume they would have to present a reasonable case to even get the KSA prosecutors to consider it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I get that but what I mean is it’s not a crime as such so should in no way be enough for them to block the takeover. Nothing can block the takeover. That's not what the PL are potentially doing. They're saying that if the takeover happens, Newcastle can't play in the PL because MBS (presumably) is on their "not allowed" list. Newcastle then have to choose between the takeover, which legally cannot be stopped, and playing in the PL, which is nothing but a glorified members club. Don’t be daft, PIF’s lawyers will be all over this report forensically, and MBS won’t be sitting in the boardroom, he isn’t a named director of the club. For about the millionth time, he doesn't have to be a named director. He just has to be someone the PL think will have influence over the club, which as PIF's chairman he clearly does. I mean, I've literally linked to this part of the O&Ds' test a load of times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 yo, honestly, didn't forsee that in 2020 I'd be randomly researching piracy in KSA and a channel called beoutq that was broadcasted on something called arabsat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie john Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Forgive me, but is anyone else as bored with all this speculation, accusation, insinuation etc as I am? I'm just going to try live a normal life and wait for an announcement. Positive or negative. Nothing I can do about it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest awaymag Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Forgive me, but is anyone else as bored with all this speculation, accusation, insinuation etc as I am? I'm just going to try live a normal life and wait for an announcement. Positive or negative. Nothing I can do about it..... Boo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BennyBlanco Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Me personally, I think the prem are going to shit themselves and bow to pressure from other clubs in the league not to allow it. It's a nice closed shop up at the top and the other traditional big boys don't want someone else eating at the top table at their expense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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