Various: N-O has lost the plot over potential end of Mike Ashley's tenure

[LV]

Was it prawn sandwich fans who shouted at boycotters? I'd have thought it was just as much the normal lads.

 

Kind of meant that anyone who did shout may as well have been eating prawn sandwiches

[LV]

 

As for throwing tantrums, why should that bother you, if the high and mighty PL don't take any notice anyway?

 

 

I most certainly did NOT say the PL would not take notice of us throwing tantrums. I was saying it would have no positive effect for us.

 

Like the child screaming for sweets, you're just increasing your chances of going home with nothing. Fucking change petitions. Fucking hell. We're turning into the mackems.

 

The mackems have sat from the sidelines while their club slides towards administration. Their inaction helped cause this. Happy to boo from the stands and leave after 20mins, but they do fuck all else but moan about it on rtg and in the pub.

 

Ashley has done a very good job on a number of fans who have ended up like them. Liverpool on the other hands helped take their owners to high court and battled for years, theyve finally got their reward.

 

This.

 

I’m still utterly ashamed at those fans who shouted at the stadium boycotters while eating their prawn sandwiches

 

Oh, I'm a million percent behind a stadium boycott. But not a change petition to the PL to let the takeover go through, or whatever it says. It just a tantrum. Fucking stop. They're making a decision, this is just embarrassing and not likely to do anything other than alienate us to them.

 

I agree with you. Can’t see the point of a petition.

[Guest chopey]

[thomas]

they're going to invoke a forgotten bylaw that says terminal fan cringe is enough to refuse a deal.

[Judge Holden]

 

Love it.

[Robster]

they're going to invoke a forgotten bylaw that says terminal fan cringe is enough to refuse a deal.

How long before there's one of Bobby Robson looking down on Richard Masters saying "You'll do for me Bonny Lad"

[The Prophet]

Now we're safe I'm stoked for the announcement. I look forward to how we'll line up next season and who will be in the dug out.

 

Soon.

[1892er]

There's absolutely no point in a petition. The mackems could create one trying to derail the takeover. I wonder if the people singing that petition would be happy for the PL to consider that one?

[The Bonk]

they're going to invoke a forgotten bylaw that says terminal fan cringe is enough to refuse a deal.

How long before there's one of Bobby Robson looking down on Richard Masters saying "You'll do for me Bonny Lad"

 

with the Angel of North as the backdrop.

[Guest godzilla]

There's absolutely no point in a petition. The mackems could create one trying to derail the takeover. I wonder if the people singing that petition would be happy for the PL to consider that one?

 

They probably will, but no petition either positive or negative is going to have the slightest effect on the takeover decision whatsoever

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

One positive I suppose is PIF must really want NUFC. With all the shit thrown their way they could have thought it was too much hassle but they still seem to be pushing. I'd be surprised if they went through all this just to do a half arsed ownership of NUFC. I guess they'll be trying to make NUFC a force again if the takeover goes through.

[The Prophet]

It takes as long as it takes man. Just sit back, relax and wait for the good times.

[Wilson]

What if the PL have 1144 Questions and they are sending them to be answered one at a time via Royal Mail?

 

It's worse, via Mike and Lee.

[Pons Alias]

Richard Masters smells of poo. IDST:

 

I won’t rescind that until we get an answer.

[Scotty66]

It takes as long as it takes man. Just sit back, relax and wait for the good times.

 

Acceptable for supporters but what about the club and the people involved who work there though? We're stuck in limbo and this is the main reason why the PL needs to come to a decision.

[Chris_R]

It takes as long as it takes man. Just sit back, relax and wait for the good times.

 

Acceptable for supporters but what about the club and the people involved who work there though? We're stuck in limbo and this is the main reason why the PL needs to come to a decision.

 

Doesn't matter, quite frankly.

 

They will come to a decision. Demanding they hurry it is ridiculous and if anything counter-productive. Assuming they're taking their time to give it every chance to go through, which seems like the case here, can't people see the problem with asking them NOT to take their time?

[Jackie Broon]

 

But the prospective directors need to have demonstrably done something equivalent to an offence in this country to fail the test. The government not doing enough to prevent piracy is not likely to equate to an offence.

 

I think it's probably quite the opposite, that PIF are happy to go along with what the PL are asking for now, but both they and the PL know that there is no way that a disqualification of the directors would be likely to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

 

MBS is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and the chairman of PIF. In his role as Crown Prince, he's believed complicit in piracy. In his role as chairman of PIF, he's a person likely to be able to influence the direction of the club and therefore counts as a director, named or not, under the terms of the O&Ds' test. I went through this about 2 months ago and was shouted down, yet here we are.

 

It seems the PL are giving the Saudis a window of opportunity to get their house in order to pass the test. That seems more than fair to me, hence the delays, because there wasn't a hope in hell of this passing in its original form. I said that at the time and with the events of the last few weeks I most certainly stand by it now.

 

Everyone screaming how "unfair" it is that it's taking so long, or they're not being kept informed about the workings of confidential deals need to give their heads a shake. We have no right to be kept informed, indeed it would be grossly unprofessional if we WERE kept informed, and the only alternative to a long, drawn-out process would be the deal collapsing. Which of course it still might.

 

I agree that fairness doesn't come into it, my response was to your assertion that the current position would be rejection.

 

There does not appear to be anything in the WTO report that is likely to equate to an actual offence by the Saudi State or MbS.

 

As far as I can see the cards appear to be stacked very much in PIF's favour because the PL do not seem to have an actual offence to hang disqualification of a director on and, by their rules, should have issued their decision within five working days.

 

My view is that at moment the PL are probably bluffing, knowing that they have a weak hand, trying to get whatever concessions they can, and for now PIF are happy enough to play along.

 

Well I hope you're right, of course. But I don't see that.

 

The French court case recently ruled that Arabsat, whose main shareholder is Saudi Arabia, were distributing BeOUTQ.

 

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019/06/14/arabsat-is-distributing-beoutq-french-court-rules/

 

The WTO report said that the Saudis didn't do enough to prevent piracy. Apparently the PL tried what, 7, 9 times to contact the Saudis? And were just rebuffed every time. Legal recourse has clearly and deliberately been denied to rights holders by the Saudis.

 

Personally, I don't know where the line is for "reasonable belief" in an offence because I'm not that up on all the relevant international legislation. But for anyone to say with certainty that there's not enough evidence that we couldn't possibly be over that line seems incredibly optimistic, as the only people who could potentially say for certain are employed in such incredibly niche positions that I doubt they're posting on here, and even if they were, they'd have to do months worth of reading and have access to information likely not in the public domain to make an accurate judgement.

 

We have to trust that the PL are looking at this correctly, and that the relevant lawyers interpret it correctly. And that we get the result we want. But I go back to my initial point - People screaming that it's taking too long or they deserve to be informed or that they PL are being unprofessional just come across as whiny children who haven't got their sweets yet. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but I'm fully aware that the grown-ups are still doing their shopping and the sweets only come at the end.

 

Hopefully we get sweets, but screaming for them and having a tantrum in the middle of aisle 8 seldom works.

 

Is a government putting in place an environment that denied legal recourse tantamount to a specific offence by the government? I think probably not.

 

Arabsat is owned by 21 states, including the UAE (and Qatar), if MbS fails the test on the basis that the Saudi state owns part of Arabsat so would Sheik Mansour because of the UAE's ownership interest.

 

 

[Guest godzilla]

It takes as long as it takes man. Just sit back, relax and wait for the good times.

 

Acceptable for supporters but what about the club and the people involved who work there though? We're stuck in limbo and this is the main reason why the PL needs to come to a decision.

 

Doesn't matter, quite frankly.

 

They will come to a decision. Demanding they hurry it is ridiculous and if anything counter-productive. Assuming they're taking their time to give it every chance to go through, which seems like the case here, can't people see the problem with asking them NOT to take their time?

 

How is it counter productive?, the only decision is based on the D&O text anything else has got nothing to do with any decision

[SAK]

they're going to invoke a forgotten bylaw that says terminal fan cringe is enough to refuse a deal.

 

Can't harm it and at least by retweeting at the PL it feels like you're doing something active rather than sitting around waiting.Who knows get it trending and shine a light on how long the PL have taken and maybe pressure will mount on them.

[TRC]

So we are now at the arguing about petitions part of this take over.

 

I think I preferred the guess the page it will be resolved part of it.

[Chris_R]

It takes as long as it takes man. Just sit back, relax and wait for the good times.

 

Acceptable for supporters but what about the club and the people involved who work there though? We're stuck in limbo and this is the main reason why the PL needs to come to a decision.

 

Doesn't matter, quite frankly.

 

They will come to a decision. Demanding they hurry it is ridiculous and if anything counter-productive. Assuming they're taking their time to give it every chance to go through, which seems like the case here, can't people see the problem with asking them NOT to take their time?

 

How is it counter productive?, the only decision is based on the D&O text anything else has got nothing to do with any decision

 

Because you're getting the backs up of people who are human beings with real emotions and feelings. If this is on a knife edge, which it looks like, then however much we might want to *think* they'll just look at the facts, do you really think it's worth the risk? We should ditch the petition, it's childish and petulant.

[Stifler]

People letting off steam via that petition has to be a lot better than them abusing the Premier League over Twitter.

[Guest godzilla]

It takes as long as it takes man. Just sit back, relax and wait for the good times.

 

Acceptable for supporters but what about the club and the people involved who work there though? We're stuck in limbo and this is the main reason why the PL needs to come to a decision.

 

Doesn't matter, quite frankly.

 

They will come to a decision. Demanding they hurry it is ridiculous and if anything counter-productive. Assuming they're taking their time to give it every chance to go through, which seems like the case here, can't people see the problem with asking them NOT to take their time?

 

How is it counter productive?, the only decision is based on the D&O text anything else has got nothing to do with any decision

 

Because you're getting the backs up of people who are human beings with real emotions and feelings. If this is on a knife edge, which it looks like, then however much we might want to *think* they'll just look at the facts, do you really think it's worth the risk? We should ditch the petition, it's childish and petulant.

 

Don't talk rubbish man the petition will have no effect either way

[Chris_R]

 

But the prospective directors need to have demonstrably done something equivalent to an offence in this country to fail the test. The government not doing enough to prevent piracy is not likely to equate to an offence.

 

I think it's probably quite the opposite, that PIF are happy to go along with what the PL are asking for now, but both they and the PL know that there is no way that a disqualification of the directors would be likely to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

 

MBS is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and the chairman of PIF. In his role as Crown Prince, he's believed complicit in piracy. In his role as chairman of PIF, he's a person likely to be able to influence the direction of the club and therefore counts as a director, named or not, under the terms of the O&Ds' test. I went through this about 2 months ago and was shouted down, yet here we are.

 

It seems the PL are giving the Saudis a window of opportunity to get their house in order to pass the test. That seems more than fair to me, hence the delays, because there wasn't a hope in hell of this passing in its original form. I said that at the time and with the events of the last few weeks I most certainly stand by it now.

 

Everyone screaming how "unfair" it is that it's taking so long, or they're not being kept informed about the workings of confidential deals need to give their heads a shake. We have no right to be kept informed, indeed it would be grossly unprofessional if we WERE kept informed, and the only alternative to a long, drawn-out process would be the deal collapsing. Which of course it still might.

 

I agree that fairness doesn't come into it, my response was to your assertion that the current position would be rejection.

 

There does not appear to be anything in the WTO report that is likely to equate to an actual offence by the Saudi State or MbS.

 

As far as I can see the cards appear to be stacked very much in PIF's favour because the PL do not seem to have an actual offence to hang disqualification of a director on and, by their rules, should have issued their decision within five working days.

 

My view is that at moment the PL are probably bluffing, knowing that they have a weak hand, trying to get whatever concessions they can, and for now PIF are happy enough to play along.

 

Well I hope you're right, of course. But I don't see that.

 

The French court case recently ruled that Arabsat, whose main shareholder is Saudi Arabia, were distributing BeOUTQ.

 

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019/06/14/arabsat-is-distributing-beoutq-french-court-rules/

 

The WTO report said that the Saudis didn't do enough to prevent piracy. Apparently the PL tried what, 7, 9 times to contact the Saudis? And were just rebuffed every time. Legal recourse has clearly and deliberately been denied to rights holders by the Saudis.

 

Personally, I don't know where the line is for "reasonable belief" in an offence because I'm not that up on all the relevant international legislation. But for anyone to say with certainty that there's not enough evidence that we couldn't possibly be over that line seems incredibly optimistic, as the only people who could potentially say for certain are employed in such incredibly niche positions that I doubt they're posting on here, and even if they were, they'd have to do months worth of reading and have access to information likely not in the public domain to make an accurate judgement.

 

We have to trust that the PL are looking at this correctly, and that the relevant lawyers interpret it correctly. And that we get the result we want. But I go back to my initial point - People screaming that it's taking too long or they deserve to be informed or that they PL are being unprofessional just come across as whiny children who haven't got their sweets yet. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but I'm fully aware that the grown-ups are still doing their shopping and the sweets only come at the end.

 

Hopefully we get sweets, but screaming for them and having a tantrum in the middle of aisle 8 seldom works.

 

Is a government putting in place an environment that denied legal recourse tantamount to a specific offence by the government? I think probably not.

 

Arabsat is owned by 21 states, including the UAE (and Qatar), if MbS fails the test on the basis that the Saudi state owns part of Arabsat so would Sheik Mansour because of the UAE's ownership interest.

 

 

 

The Saudis plus Kuwait, their closest regional allies, have a controlling stake of 51%. Yes, the Qataris own 9.8% and the UAE 4.7% but that's very different to having a controlling stake in the company and what it does. And of course other countries have stakes too but 12 of them have less than 2% each. I own more than that in shares of an Australian mining company but I'm fucked if I'll be held accountable for their actions if they start doing dodgy shit. I've never even been to Australia or spoken to anyone at the company, I'm just in it for the ride and hopefully some £s at the end.

 

Ultimately though, my point isn't that they HAVE committed an act that is in the "reasonable opinion" of the PL likely to disqualify them. My point is that nobody (at least none of us) can be sure that they have not.

 

The very fact that the actual lawyers in this with the evidence in front of them still haven't signed it off is surely proof of that? I had to let people have their "Oh, it'll be fine" moment what, 6 weeks ago, but now it looks rather like I had a point then because look where we are now - NOT signed off as we rampage into week 13 of a 4-week process. For people to still be talking in such absolutes despite this, that the Saudis have DEFINITELY NOT done anything that could render them liable for disqualification and the PL cannot stop this going through, is frankly bonkers because it seems the PL's lawyers who are actually working on the case aren't as sure as all you google experts.

[Guest chopey]

I've never heard of Google before but I'm still 100% convinced this is going through.