Football governance

[TRon]

2 hours ago, Happinesstan said:

It's the virtual world, innit. Why bother trying to satisfy a number of fans that is restricted to the size of your multi million pound stadium, when there is a whole world of fans that can be accessed virtually.

That's all probably true, but while that may work for the 6 clubs who fancy themselves as elite, that still leaves the rest of English football on the outside, and that's a huge majority. The Big 6 are counting on not getting hoyed out of British football competition, if they do, then eventually they will become something else altogether, and not sure they will have much connection to British football any more. Virtual fans are all well and good, but a big part of the appeal of the Premier league is the (mostly) local fans. It can only work if they still get to play in domestic competition as well, if they get chucked out I think long term they would fear losing their brand value. 

[Superior Acuña]

23 minutes ago, reefatoon said:

Exactly. He's in a massive huff with them due to the takeover. Expected him to be a petulant child and go with the opposite to what the Premier league said just through spite.

Yeah but the main teams in the PL that pissed him off over the takeover are probably the 6 breakways.

[hakka]

Just now, Stifler said:

The thing is though, they are binning us. Like it or not but unless they are in a title race, then these clubs will just play their reserves in Premier League. It is only a matter of time before the TV deals and other sponsorship deals start getting devalued. It’s not just limited to the League’s own sponsors either, but also clubs own sponsors.

They aren't though? - they are binning the CL/EL. I'm not at all an advocate of what they are doing or for keeping them in the PL, but surely prudence around the next steps taking in the wider impact of any action is a must before you do it?

[toontownman]

11 minutes ago, hakka said:

We have consider what the damage is from binning the top 6 from the PL. The PL and it's payments to clubs is based on current and future years payments of it's broadcaster deals. I don't know the pull of the top 6 has in relative terms to all the deals the PL has with all broadcasters, but if those broadcasters lose a chunk of subscribers, say 20%, that amount will be hundreds of millions of pounds that which the broadcasters can't pay to the PL. If the PL doesn't get the money, then the clubs don't get paid their money. We already know most clubs overspend or are fully dependant on it, wiping out a large chunk of it could start a chain reaction that collapses the whole thing. Appreciate it's a crude description, but I think that's the sort of reasons why it must be done pragmatically and with deep thought. No point chucking out the top 6 if it's enough to destroy the whole thing.

Obviously this isn't a case of "oh thank fuck now we have a reason to kick them out". Losing those 6 is a big hit that has to be avoided if it can. Just not at the expense of them getting off free and even rewarded while the rest of the clubs sit wiping spit off their faces.

The PL statement needed to be more firm with the consequences without closing the door on the clubs return. It is easy to be too harsh and just drive the wedge and push the defiant teenagers away further. Equally I think what we got was too passive and just gives the impression, it's not you its them, it's the league not the clubs. 

Also it's their rules don't they employ people that know their rules and loop holes enough they can be certain they are broken after nearly 3 days?

[Guest]

TV Revenue shared equally amongst all clubs? That's communism! 

[Happinesstan]

3 minutes ago, TRon said:

That's all probably true, but while that may work for the 6 clubs who fancy themselves as elite, that still leaves the rest of English football on the outside, and that's a huge majority. The Big 6 are counting on not getting hoyed out of British football competition, if they do, then eventually they will become something else altogether, and not sure they will have much connection to British football any more. Virtual fans are all well and good, but a big part of the appeal of the Premier league is the (mostly) local fans. It can only work if they still get to play in domestic competition as well, if they get chucked out I think long term they would fear losing their brand value. 

I think, long term, they're planning on ditching the PL. They want to be at both ends of the income stream during the transition.

[hakka]

1 minute ago, toontownman said:

Obviously this isn't a case of "oh thank fuck now we have a reason to kick them out". Losing those 6 is a big hit that has to be avoided if it can. Just not at the expense of them getting off free and even rewarded while the rest of the clubs sit wiping spit off their faces.

The PL statement needed to be more firm with the consequences without closing the door on the clubs return. It is easy to be too harsh and just drive the wedge and push the defiant teenagers away further. Equally I think what we got was too passive and just gives the impression, it's not you its them, it's the league not the clubs. 

Also it's their rules don't they employ people that know their rules and loop holes enough they can be certain they are broken after nearly 3 days?

Well nobody is advocating letting them off for this that I've read. But some are actively suggesting they should be booted out already, that's all I was addressing. The PL can't rush this, and I'm just giving some reasons why I think they should be cautious and considerate of the next move. A firm response now before it's had time to evaluate the whole thing is a bit moot.

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Happinesstan said:

I think, long term, they're planning on ditching the PL. They want to be at both ends of the income stream during the transition.

If that's their plan then good luck to them. It means that the PL can be restructured without them. There would be a hit to the value of the league for sure, but in the end it would provide exactly what the ESL doesn't. Genuine competition, local buy-in, and the game as we know it. Exactly what made the Big 6 the Big 6 in the first place. 

We would get other clubs taking their place eventually, but it all hinges on them being thrown out. 

[Happinesstan]

Just now, TRon said:

If that's their plan then good luck to them. It means that the PL can be restructured without them. There would be a hit to the value of the league for sure, but in the end it would provide exactly what the ESL doesn't. Genuine competition, local buy-in, and the game as we know it. Exactly what made the Big 6 the Big 6 in the first place. 

We would get other clubs taking their place eventually, but it all hinges on them being thrown out. 

I think eventually you'll have two different sports altogether. Different rules, different formats. A bit like T20 cricket.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

15 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

 

Not buying that, personally. 

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Not buying that, personally. 

Quick quick say something to distance us away from this (don't say to much tho)

[Sima]

That statement from The Premier League

It's a wonder they actually have referees in games with them being so allergic to making decisions.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Sima

[Stifler]

11 minutes ago, hakka said:

They aren't though? - they are binning the CL/EL. I'm not at all an advocate of what they are doing or for keeping them in the PL, but surely prudence around the next steps taking in the wider impact of any action is a must before you do it?

They are binning the Premier League, maybe not directly, but they will be treating it as a lesser completion when the games in the ESL start. The Premier League will be like the League Cup to them, play the kids, save our stars for the big match in midweek. If we do have an important game in the Premier League then yeah, play a stronger squad, but maybe take them off after 60 minutes.

[hakka]

Just now, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Not buying that, personally. 

I was surprised at it. Maybe they see this as a toxic impact on their brand? but also maybe compromises the existing deal they have with the PL.

[BlueStar]

12 minutes ago, OCK said:

TV Revenue shared equally amongst all clubs? That's communism! 

Give a few few years and Real Madrid and Liverpool will wonder why they're evenly sharing the pie with chumps like Spurs and Arsenal who don't ave the same draw and break off to form a Super Duper League.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

1 minute ago, BlueStar said:

Give a few few years and Real Madrid and Liverpool will wonder why they're evenly sharing the pie with chumps like Spurs and Arsenal who don't ave the same draw and break off to form a Super Duper League.

I wouldnt allow the naming rights anyway

[Big Geordie]

What's the betting that if the SL is pulled, that the Big 6 will face NO sanctions at all from the FA or PL? I'd still boot them all out - down to the Championship or perhaps all the way to the National League.

Punishment should be harsh to this kind of pish doesn't happen again. Same should happen in Italy and Spain.

[hakka]

Just now, Stifler said:

They are binning the Premier League, maybe not directly, but they will be treating it as a lesser completion when the games in the ESL start. The Premier League will be like the League Cup to them, play the kids, save our stars for the big match in midweek. If we do have an important game in the Premier League then yeah, play a stronger squad, but maybe take them off after 60 minutes.

And that's an observation I share and posted about yesterday too. It's not really related to what I was talking about, which is showing caution to the idea of booting out the 6 clubs from the PL now, before thinking it through and assessing the impact and how you will transverse that.

[Stifler]

In my opinion the FA are hanging the Premier League out to dry here. Where is the statements from them? The Premier League are scrambling to make statement to show they mean business without any sort of backing of what they can do. Meanwhile the FA are sat back thinking their job is being handled. The FA should be backing the Premier League, they should have been involved in the meeting today. This doesn’t just effect the Premier League, but the whole domestic game. The FA should be saying the League Cup final is postponed. They should be backing the Premier League up by saying we’ll allow you to postpone the top 6 clubs fixtures and run a table without them until we have further clarity on what and if they are going to involved.

Both the FA and Premier League need to be acting as if they are gone. It’s not just the Premier League who have to work around this. Is the EFL going to have to bring in 6 new clubs? Is there going to be massive changes in the league structures?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Stifler

[Jackie Broon]

6 minutes ago, Sima said:

That statement from The Premier League

It's a wonder they actucally have referees in games with them being so allergic to making decisions.

Masters and Hoffman are probably fully in support of it really. They're probably insisting to the government that they have it all covered knowing full well that their rules won't stand up in court to prevent it, and by the time that plays out it'll be too late.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Jackie Broon

[toontownman]

7 minutes ago, Stifler said:

In my opinion the FA are hanging the Premier League out to dry here. Where is the statements from them? The Premier League are scrambling to make statement to show they mean business without any sort of backing of what they can do. Meanwhile the FA are sat back thinking their job is being handled. The FA should be backing the Premier League, they should have been involved in the meeting today. This doesn’t just effect the Premier League, but the whole domestic game. The FA should be saying the League Cup final is postponed. They should be backing the Premier League up by saying we’ll allow you to postpone the top 6 clubs fixtures and run a table without them until we have further clarity on what and if they are going to involved.

Both the FA and Premier League need to be acting as if they are gone. It’s not just the Premier League who have to work around this. Is the EFL going to have to bring in 6 new clubs? Is there going to be massive changes in the league structures?

The FA were involved in the meeting today. Agree they should be making a statement though. 

[Stifler]

26 minutes ago, OCK said:

TV Revenue shared equally amongst all clubs? That's communism! 

This is another point.

SSN are saying the Premier League clubs are willing to have the top 6 back, however certain owners and directors have to go (fit & proper owners test ?).

However if they comeback then it has to be on level terms. No more top 6 clubs getting a bigger share of the sponsorship and broadcast deals. Everyone in the league gets the same, with a smaller league placing bonus to encourage you to want to finish as high up as possible. No more automatic right to more money or power. Every 3 years when the TV deals are due to be renewed we hear rumblings of an ESL which they say in order to bluff their way to a bigger slice of the pie. It has to be no more and has to be a condition of them coming back. The top 6 clubs saying they are willing to negotiate is them saying they want to hold a gun to our head again, it has to be stamped out.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Stifler

[Anderson]

Not to piss on anyone's chips, but there's absolutely no chance they're being kicked out the league/suspended etc. At least not before the thing's actually gone beyond this initial statement. Nor do I particularly think they should. You can't on the one hand argue that football clubs are more than the current legal entities and those that own them, and on the other petition to erase them from the history books. Focus needs to be on nipping this in the bud and then regulating ownership and taking back control if at all possible. Admittedly that's easier said than done, especially when the best example of it in practice, 50+1 in Germany, was actually handing over increased commercial ownership of football clubs that had previously been NFPs.

Would support UEFA taking a hard-line approach mind and banning them for a period, with it being a more direct attack on CL.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Anderson

[Miggys First Goal]

If they truly don’t can’t about the “legacy” fans (fuck off) any longer and are squarely aiming this at the younger market, what Neville said last night makes sense. They might not even go for Amazon or Disney or whatever streaming it. They might handle all coverage themselves. Neville said, while holding his mobile phone, 150 million Manure fans worldwide (is that right?) paying £1 every week to watch the games on mobile phones or tablets. £150 million per week.

Not too shabby to be honest. 

[Dancing Brave]