Group D (Croatia, Czech Republic, England, Scotland)

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

2 hours ago, Candi_Hills said:

It's spot on in my opinion.

1. Why bring politics into football? Why force a political position on people? A cursory glance round the internet tells you 50% of people don't support BLM, including some black people.

2. What is the BLM issue? Police violence? The general plight of blacks in the US? In either case, it's an overseas issue. Why is a knee for black Americans any more warranted than a knee for the Uighurs or a knee for Palestinian kids? How about an issue closer to home? A knee 20,000 white girls raped by Pakistani gangs?

3. The BLM claim is that blacks are killed at a disproportionate rate to whites by police in the US. On the face of it, the claim is true. More whites are killed by police in the US in terms of raw numbers but blacks are overrepresented because they only make up 14% of the population or whatever it is. This doesn't take into account how much crime blacks are responsible for and how much more likely they are to have an engagement with an officer in the first place. When crime rates are accounted for, the picture starts to balance itself out. And that's just police violence. If we look at interracial violence more generally, a black person is 25 times more likely to kill a white than the other way round. 25 times! And this is not black v white thing either. You can listen to black people on youtube saying the same things I've just said.

I asked some rhetorical questions above. In fact, I know the answers to all of the those questions but I'll leave it there. I wish politics and football were separate.

 

This "why bring politics in to x" sentiment is disingenuous at best, ignorant a little further up, and plain fucking stupid in the extreme. Its the refrain of people who would rather stay ignorant to life happening around them and not have their deluded little fantasies interrupted. And this notion of forcing stuff on people because someone is choosing to do something. How is something being forced on you all of a sudden because someone choses to do or say something? Are they not free to do what they want? I'd also suggest you take more than a 'cursory glance' at issues such as this if you dont want to sound like a moron. 

BLM is a slogan as well you know it is. Yes it might have come out of one country and be driven by events that are not really an experience in this country, but why anyone should think it should be in response only to a specific lived experience in one country when there are numerous lived experiences across countries which can all be summed up by the suggestion that black people should be treated equally. Which we're all conscious enough to realise they absolutely are not. And it's centuries old beliefs, tropes and behaviours that still dictate certain undertones today. Like yours. 

You believe the plight of black people in our history is an overseas issue? And your suggestions about taking a knee for issues "closer to home". Is racism towards black people in this country not close enough to you? Have you been able to ignore it and decide it's not really an issue enough so youre happy dismissing it in yourself and then trying to have other people believe the same as you? And who says a knee for Black People (not just black Americans you utter disgusting human being) is more important than all of those other examples you can so handily access to be able to dismiss all this even more? I'll tell you who, only you. In your weird little head that is void of enough knowledge and understanding you hold the views on this you do. So I'm also guessing because you think these issues are more important you're following through and doing your bit to raise awareness on these awful issues that are clearly more important that trying to end targeted racist abuse against individuals. 

I like how you chose to include Pakistani gangs in the rape of girls but exclude any and every other cohort of person that has also raped girls. Old white men likely being the most prominent. 

And point 3...? Fuuuck me. Which Facebook group have you been sat in? It's okay though because a black person has said it on youtube so that must mean all else is immediately voided eh? And trust me, you absolutely do not know the answers. You've very clearly demonstrated you have no fucking clue what so ever. 

The point here is only that you dont agree that black people should expect to be treated the same and not be at a disadvantage in their general life because of their skin colour. Which they undeniably are. But for some reason you dont like hearing that? I mean, I know why that is. 

Politics is separate from nothing. If you want to watch generic entertainment without any form of individual human consciousness, stick to the masked dancer and keith lemon. They sound more your level. 

[joeyt]

top post

[joeyt]

 

[Jaqen]

Saw a few vids over the weekend of fans filming themselves at home booing the kneeling with the match in shot  

To be honest to me it feels very much like a PR exercise and a token gesture at this point though. The original kneeling in the US seemed to be against protesting the national anthem before games to highlight how inequality,racism and police brutality was so prevalent. It was an act of defiance. 

Over here it feels a bit disingenuous and hollow. The FA and clubs doing it so it looks like they're trying to make a difference without having to actually do anything. There's not much power behind the message when it's forced and comes from the top. I can totally understand why there's been a few black players come out against it and it makes them feel uncomfortable. 

It's a difficult one. Actually feels like we are going backwards with views and attitudes on racism in football though. Unbelievable the abuse that players have to put up with now. So there's a definite need for some sort of message and raising of awareness to be done. 

[Klaus]

The only slight issue is, when do players stop taking the knee? When all racism is dispelled from society? In other words, never.

[Kimbo]

2 hours ago, Klaus said:

The only slight issue is, when do players stop taking the knee? When all racism is dispelled from society? In other words, never.

At some point I expect Zaha's stance to be the dominant one. I wouldn't be surprised if it was widespread already but players don't want the attention that comes with stopping it.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Kimbo

[Wullie]

The more people boo, the less likely they are to bring it to an end, and rightly so. Fuck giving those Neanderthals any satisfaction.

[Guest HTT II]

5 hours ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

This "why bring politics in to x" sentiment is disingenuous at best, ignorant a little further up, and plain fucking stupid in the extreme. Its the refrain of people who would rather stay ignorant to life happening around them and not have their deluded little fantasies interrupted. And this notion of forcing stuff on people because someone is choosing to do something. How is something being forced on you all of a sudden because someone choses to do or say something? Are they not free to do what they want? I'd also suggest you take more than a 'cursory glance' at issues such as this if you dont want to sound like a moron. 

BLM is a slogan as well you know it is. Yes it might have come out of one country and be driven by events that are not really an experience in this country, but why anyone should think it should be in response only to a specific lived experience in one country when there are numerous lived experiences across countries which can all be summed up by the suggestion that black people should be treated equally. Which we're all conscious enough to realise they absolutely are not. And it's centuries old beliefs, tropes and behaviours that still dictate certain undertones today. Like yours. 

You believe the plight of black people in our history is an overseas issue? And your suggestions about taking a knee for issues "closer to home". Is racism towards black people in this country not close enough to you? Have you been able to ignore it and decide it's not really an issue enough so youre happy dismissing it in yourself and then trying to have other people believe the same as you? And who says a knee for Black People (not just black Americans you utter disgusting human being) is more important than all of those other examples you can so handily access to be able to dismiss all this even more? I'll tell you who, only you. In your weird little head that is void of enough knowledge and understanding you hold the views on this you do. So I'm also guessing because you think these issues are more important you're following through and doing your bit to raise awareness on these awful issues that are clearly more important that trying to end targeted racist abuse against individuals. 

I like how you chose to include Pakistani gangs in the rape of girls but exclude any and every other cohort of person that has also raped girls. Old white men likely being the most prominent. 

And point 3...? Fuuuck me. Which Facebook group have you been sat in? It's okay though because a black person has said it on youtube so that must mean all else is immediately voided eh? And trust me, you absolutely do not know the answers. You've very clearly demonstrated you have no fucking clue what so ever. 

The point here is only that you dont agree that black people should expect to be treated the same and not be at a disadvantage in their general life because of their skin colour. Which they undeniably are. But for some reason you dont like hearing that? I mean, I know why that is. 

Politics is separate from nothing. If you want to watch generic entertainment without any form of individual human consciousness, stick to the masked dancer and keith lemon. They sound more your level. 

Superb post 

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

1 hour ago, Wullie said:

The more people boo, the less likely they are to bring it to an end, and rightly so. Fuck giving those Neanderthals any satisfaction.

The idea that the players will make a political gesture in front of 20,000+ people representing a large sampling of society and receive no backlash is silly, though. What makes their gesture separate from the countless other ones made daily in your society and met with varying levels of genuine support, reluctant acquiescence, apathy, and outright opposition? I find the kneeling a waste of everyone's time, frankly, but the players should continue with it if that is their wish, I suppose. It does vex me to continually see these articles of people who are supposedly outraged that there has been booing, though. There was a significant level of unhappiness with this one year ago when public sentiment was more in favour and people were desperate to see football in any capacity. We are now a year on from this, with less favourable conditions for it, what else could be expected?

3 hours ago, Jaqen said:

It's a difficult one. Actually feels like we are going backwards with views and attitudes on racism in football though. Unbelievable the abuse that players have to put up with now. So there's a definite need for some sort of message and raising of awareness to be done. 

Is there a genuine increase in abuse or just a magnification of the anti-social, deviant, and demented behaviour permeating in the wretched realm of social media? Any one of the billion or so people following Premier League football can post a monkey emoji at a player while wiping their ass. It is a fair bit different than policing what happens at football grounds; the sport has not control over this, nor does government in free nations. The clubs and players "boycotting" these platforms for a week was the only truly correct step taken in that regard because the proper response to this trend in society is to remove yourself from it entirely, if there is an effect on well-being or mental health.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Segun Oluwaniyi

[Guest HTT II]

4 minutes ago, Segun Oluwaniyi said:

The idea that the players will make a political gesture in front of 20,000+ people representing a large sampling of society and receive no backlash is silly, though. What makes their gesture separate from the countless other ones made daily in your society and met with varying levels of genuine support, reluctant acquiescence, apathy, and outright opposition? I find the kneeling a waste of everyone's time, frankly, but the players should continue with it if that is their wish, I suppose. It does vex me to continually see these articles of people who are supposedly outraged that there has been booing, though. There was a significant level of unhappiness with this one year ago when public sentiment was more in favour and people were desperate to see football in any capacity. We are now a year on from this, with less favourable conditions for it, what else could be expected?

Is there a genuine increase in abuse or just a magnification of the anti-social, deviant, and demented behaviour permeating in the wretched realm of social media? Any one of the billion or so people following Premier League football can post a monkey emoji at a player while wiping their ass. It is a fair bit different than policing what happens at football grounds; the sport has not control over this, nor does government in free nations. The clubs and players "boycotting" these platforms for a week was the only truly correct step taken in that regard because the proper response to this trend in society is to remove yourself from it entirely, if there is an effect on well-being or mental health.

Good post and the bit in bold, the other response is to keep protesting, to keep taking a stand or again a knee which is a stand. I’m far more for that then say defunding the police or some of the shit over pulling down statues or renaming a pub here in Newcastle. We as society, as all people, as all races have to keep saying no to racism, prejudice, intolerance and discrimination and in sport, taking the knee is a perfect response because it inevitably - as it has done with the whiney arsed soft fucking coward  twats who have booed it - unmask the real bigots, the racists and the problem people of our society. How to deal with them is of course another matter entirely… 

[Anderson]

Just seen the Daily Mail are comparing taking the knee to the 1938 side giving a Nazi salute in Germany, fucking hell man.

[Guest HTT II]

10 minutes ago, Anderson said:

Just seen the Daily Mail are comparing taking the knee to the 1938 side giving a Nazi salute in Germany, fucking hell man.

That doesn’t surprise me with those cunts, can we not boycott that trash like the scousers did with the scum?!

[Sima]

12 minutes ago, Anderson said:

Just seen the Daily Mail are comparing taking the knee to the 1938 side giving a Nazi salute in Germany, fucking hell man.

They'd know all about supporting the Nazis tbf.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Sima

[Interpolic]

4 hours ago, Jaqen said:

Saw a few vids over the weekend of fans filming themselves at home booing the kneeling with the match in shot  

I did see this and thought it was hilarious tbh

 

[Dancing Brave]

He was that serious he took his glasses off...that'll show them !

[Sima]

46 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

I did see this and thought it was hilarious tbh

 

Apparently his glasses are directly linked to the pitch of his voice.

[Anderson]

 

[Foluwashola]

He's a good bloke is Gareth like. Hopefully won't be baying for his blood after the group stages. 

[Sima]

He's very articulate.  Shame he's a bang-average tactician.

[Minhosa]

That's a great article from him. I think he's a class act as a bloke. Don't particularly rate him as a manager (wouldn't have given him the job, wouldn't want him anywhere near NUFC etc) but nobody can argue that he doesn't carry himself with real grace and dignity.

[Interpolic]

15 hours ago, Sima said:

Apparently his glasses are directly linked to the pitch of his voice.

 

Tweet's been taken down now

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, Anderson said:

 

Love that and I actually rate the man, well said Gareth Southgate 

[ToonArmy1892]

Each to their own but it just seems like a bit of a pointless exercise now, does the taking of the knee now continue for ever? If not why not? 

 

If it stops and racism continues (inevitable), does that mean the racists have won?

 

I know it's a totally seperate issue but it reminds me of the clapping for the two toon fans who died in the plane shooting, it just went on for too long and just became a "thing" that people did, as if not clapping anymore meant you were being disrespectful or something.

 

 

 

[JeffJ]

3 hours ago, HTT II said:

Love that and I actually rate the man, well said Gareth Southgate 

Absolutely. It’s just grim that he has had to address such a situation but he’s done it with dignity and class. 
 

Imagine how Sam Allardyce would have handled this situation?!
 

‘I’m not going to tell the fans how to feel, like. If they want to boo they can boo, black or white, doesn’t matter to me. I signed Jay Jay Okocha and love a big African in January sales, like. Play snooker with a few of them. Right on’ 

 

 

[relámpago blanco]

I'm actually excited for the euros now.  I didn't think I would be.  Looking forward to sitting in a pub garden watching us get knocked out by ze germans in the semi finals.