The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Smal]

3 hours ago, ManDoon said:

Essentially everything enjoyable is stained by grimness. It’s shit but it’s where we are. I can’t think of one popular entertainment that isn’t. 

It's not necessarily stained by grimness to the extent of NUFC unfortunately. 

 

As much as I despise capitalism we're beyond the deep end of the cesspool here. Our owners executed 81 people yesterday. 81 people's lives. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Smal

[Yorkie]

24 minutes ago, ljackson said:

Hi, I am conducting research for my undergraduate degree in Sociology at the University of Sheffield. I am looking for football fans and non-football fans to fill out a short questionnaire about perspectives on owners and ownership of football clubs in relation to the human rights records of the owners. I would appreciate it if anyone could fill it out. Thanks. (all responses will be anonymous)

 

Link to the survey:

https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/TKY3DA/ 

 

[wyn davies]

55 minutes ago, Smal said:

It's not necessarily stained by grimness to the extent of NUFC unfortunately. 

 

As much as I despise capitalism we're beyond the deep end of the cesspool here. Our owners executed 81 people yesterday. 81 people's lives. 

 

 

 

How many do the good old USA execute every year ? rather be a part of the capatilist fraternity than Putin's communism 

[Miercoles]

10 minutes ago, wyn davies said:

How many do the good old USA execute every year ? rather be a part of the capatilist fraternity than Putin's communism 

 

Just looked that up, we did 25 in 2018, 22 in 2019, and then 17 in 2020 but you know COVID-19 probably made it challenging to perform as many executions as we would like.

 

There is also a worrying situation in the US where pharmaceutical companies are refusing to provide the chemicals used in lethal injections, so many states are saying "fuck it" and using homebrewed concoctions with absolutely horrific results.

 

So it's really just a question of scale. 81 people in a day seems like a lot, but the U.S. does routinely executive its citizens as a matter of course, and those executions are occasionally proved to have been the result of false convictions. I'm sure the number of actual false convictions is higher than the number that have been proved, as well.

 

I'm against it of course because, while I do think some offenders are probably best rehabilitated via murder, I do not have any faith in the ability of our legal system to determine who those people are either accurately or fairly.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Miercoles

[leffe186]

5 hours ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

 

Oh so blatent White Supremacy doesn't pique your personal moral compass then? What that sport has shown post Kaepernick and BLM is equally as morally questionable as the ownership quandries of the Premier League if you ask me.

That works. So if it’s equally morally questionable (and if you factor in the NCAA then that’s another layer, but I digress) then the parity afforded by the salary cap and draft tips the balance towards the NFL

[Smal]

16 minutes ago, wyn davies said:

How many do the good old USA execute every year ?

What has that got to do with NUFC?

 

Unless you’re saying you’re fine with our owners executing people because USA also does it?? 

[Khalidao]

2 hours ago, triggs said:

What do you think happened considering the Saudis themselves first lied saying that he left the embassy an hour after arriving before admitting a few weeks later he died in a "fight" at the embassy

 

All I know is that the responsible individuals (with their real names and occupations fully revealed) have been convicted and are in jail right now.

 

Khashoggi's real family has applauded the verdict, traveled to the US and back shortly after that. Why didn't they apply for US asylum? If I had to guess they would've been granted a permenant stay quicker than anyone else.

 

BBC isn't Saudi, is it? here you go:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45988533

[Jackie Broon]

27 minutes ago, Miercoles said:

 

Just looked that up, we did 25 in 2018, 22 in 2019, and then 17 in 2020 but you know COVID-19 probably made it challenging to perform as many executions as we would like.

 

There is also a worrying situation in the US where pharmaceutical companies are refusing to provide the chemicals used in lethal injections, so many states are saying "fuck it" and using homebrewed concoctions with absolutely horrific results.

 

So it's really just a question of scale. 81 people in a day seems like a lot, but the U.S. does routinely executive its citizens as a matter of course, and those executions are occasionally proved to have been the result of false convictions. I'm sure the number of actual false convictions is higher than the number that have been proved, as well.

 

I'm against it of course because, while I do think some offenders are probably best rehabilitated via murder, I do not have any faith in the ability of our legal system to determine who those people are either accurately or fairly.

 

 

 

 

The US also executes hundreds of 'terrorists' each year, without trial, by drone strike.

[leffe186]

6 hours ago, TRon said:

 

So what was it that made you walk away from football? I know you have probably explained previously, but maybe I missed it.

I find myself thinking about it a lot and re-examining it constantly because football was so much to me for so long and it was a very hard decision.

 

My first Spurs game was in the Second Division - Spurs v Mansfield. Grew up in North London, trained with Enfield borough’s team in the old ball court under the West Stand, used to walk to home games with my Dad. I’ve been through ups and downs, season ticket holder for years, member for years, all the things. 
 

I think it dates back to Abramovich tbh. Of course we’d already had Jack Walker, and Chelsea were already doing better thanks to Ken Bates spending money he didn’t have, but a guy coming in and spending the ludicrous money Chelsea were spending changed the game - for me at least. I’d grown up with some ebb and flow in the top flight - sure, Liverpool were super-dominant and the local glory-hunters affected scouse accents but you felt like a team like Villa, or Ipswich, or eventually Newcastle could get a good manager, some breaks, and come through.

 

I don’t think I fully realized the change at the time because a couple of years later Spurs got Jol in, ditched some old-timers, got in a lot of young players and built from the bottom. It was fun, and felt “right”. Of course, Chelsea saw that and immediately threw money at Frank Arnesen, which was hard to take. Still, there have always been haves and have-nots in football and we kept building up, so although the difference in wage bills between the CL clubs and the rest seemed to be widening I could suck it up.

 

The 2000s were completely dominated by the top four. Any idea of parity was out of the window. Like Keegan said, the Premier League was in danger of being one of the most boring leagues in the world, and unless you gave a shit about the top four, Barca or Real the CL was going the same way. Then along came Sheikh Mansour.

 

(sorry going to eat dinner)

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, wyn davies said:

How many do the good old USA execute every year ? rather be a part of the capatilist fraternity than Putin's communism 

Are you out of your mind? ?

 

Putin's not communist. Jesus Christ

[Thumbheed]

33 minutes ago, Khalidao said:

 

All I know is that the responsible individuals (with their real names and occupations fully revealed) have been convicted and are in jail right now.

 

Khashoggi's real family has applauded the verdict, traveled to the US and back shortly after that. Why didn't they apply for US asylum? If I had to guess they would've been granted a permenant stay quicker than anyone else.

 

BBC isn't Saudi, is it? here you go:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45988533

 

Do you think they have the freedom to speak out against the regime and MBS?

 

 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

 

 

 

 

 

[Whitley mag]

Hats off to Neil Farrington for calling out some of the utter cunts, the hypocrisy is astounding from Delaney and co. 

[Solitude20]

1 hour ago, Miercoles said:

 

Just looked that up, we did 25 in 2018, 22 in 2019, and then 17 in 2020 but you know COVID-19 probably made it challenging to perform as many executions as we would like.

 

There is also a worrying situation in the US where pharmaceutical companies are refusing to provide the chemicals used in lethal injections, so many states are saying "fuck it" and using homebrewed concoctions with absolutely horrific results.

 

So it's really just a question of scale. 81 people in a day seems like a lot, but the U.S. does routinely executive its citizens as a matter of course, and those executions are occasionally proved to have been the result of false convictions. I'm sure the number of actual false convictions is higher than the number that have been proved, as well.

 

I'm against it of course because, while I do think some offenders are probably best rehabilitated via murder, I do not have any faith in the ability of our legal system to determine who those people are either accurately or fairly.

 

 

 

As I understood, those 81 executions belong to sentences of crimes that have been accumulated since 2016, but the the execution was just approved now. It’s not like they execute 81 lives every day or even every year. Even by scale, that is not far from the US. 

[Miggys First Goal]

We should just stop doing pre and post match interviews.

[jack j]

Just caught the back of neville on skysporrs there. Is he suggesting they redo the ownerships rules and therefore take our ownership away?

[Joey Linton]

8 minutes ago, jack j said:

Just caught the back of neville on skysporrs there. Is he suggesting they redo the ownerships rules and therefore take our ownership away?

Our ownership who they cleared as not being intrinsically linked to the Saudi state? 

[Gaztoon]

Just now, Joey Linton said:

Our ownership who they cleared as not being intrinsically linked to the Saudi state? 

 

Won't matter.

 

The push as started and its not going to stop until they sell up

[leffe186]

7 hours ago, TRon said:

 

So what was it that made you walk away from football? I know you have probably explained previously, but maybe I missed it.

…So yeah, a combination of things but parity (or the loss of it) was at the root. Abramovich. The Champions League. Mansour. West Ham and the Olympic Stadium vs Leyton Orient. The utter balls-up they’re making of VAR. Man City, Man U and Liverpool shirts all over London playgrounds. Drip. Drip. Drip. I stuck with it for a while because my team seemed to be doing it the “right” way, but I’d had enough a long time ago.
 

Found out this week that one of my Dad’s passwords is KaneSon61, which simultaneously make me feel happy and sad. He’d become disillusioned with modern football way before me but was never not going to be a Spurs fan and just fucking loves the game. I still want Spurs to win every game 5-0. It just truly does not feel like the same game any more, and the number of ways that was true reached critical mass.

 

I’m just an old fogey, basically

[Joey Linton]

Just now, Gaztoon said:

 

Won't matter.

 

The push as started and its not going to stop until they sell up

Why would they sell up? And to whom? 

 

Given all the despicable stuff that has occurred under the control of the Saudi government I dare say they won't be too concerned that Ollie Holt has written some nasty words about them. 

[Gaztoon]

Just now, Joey Linton said:

Why would they sell up? And to whom? 

 

Given all the despicable stuff that has occurred under the control of the Saudi government I dare say they won't be too concerned that Ollie Holt has written some nasty words about them. 

 

We'll see I suppose, sure calls for the government to get involved will start soon enough.

 

The vast amounts the Saudis pump into the British economy may stop that from happening though.

[Wolfcastle]

leffe186 (post on previous page)that's remarkably similar to me. 

Blackburn didn't sit well as opposed our more natural similar growth (15k in the PL v 31k in D1) and Chelsea finished off any last lingering love of football. Just didn't matter how well a manager did elsewhere, how many fans a club got - you couldn't compete and feared it was the start of a slipperly slope - but was assured by the media it was good for football (post ITV digital) and that the money would trickle down.

We were the first victims of Abramovic, Chelsea instead of doing a Leeds, leap-frogged us into a champions league place - didn't matter how good Sir Bobby was or how much better our support was. Felt kinda futile. Then Ashley came along and inverted even the ability to enjoy ones own team in itself.

 

Thus was conditioned to being numb when Man City were bought by even more wealthy owners. 'At least its Man City' I thought. Birmingham and Man City owners doing time, Russia, Qatar World Cups and all the rest of it, football was gone as any kind of moral entity, thought that was a given it was so seldom touched on until it was rediscovered (between world cups that 99% will indulge in) when it came to us.  If we were the first I'd be against it but this is the game everyone else had just gone along with for the last 20years.

[Tsunami]

Yeah, Neville said he’s now changed his mind and him and Carra agree Howe is fair game. 
 

Meanwhile in Parliament a govt spokesperson was welcoming the investment.

 

Perhaps if the PL and Big 6 hadn’t tried as hard as they did to stop the takeover they mightn’t have tripped themselves and got themselves into a corner.

 

If the Saudis start assisting Putin there’s a different story to be had and the ownership of NUFC will rightly be questioned. There’s a whole can of elsewhere should that happen.

 

I don’t see anywhere any comment that KSA lawfully attacked rebels in Yemen or that the US and UK were onboard with this whilst also providing humanitarian aid. I know it’s not as simple as that but……

 

At what point do you say we’ve gone after enough clubs? 
 

Regardless of anything you can’t approve a takeover and then decide it was wrong because Putin invaded Ukraine. I’d expect the Govt to have a word if the EPL take any action. As undesirable as it may be we need to maintain strong links with KSA.

 

Anyway, Neville was stirring the pot and Howe can’t be expected to comment on KSA when in essence nothing has changed in the circumstances of the takeover.

[Thiago]

Neville is very good at saying a lot that highlights problems but rarely if ever providing actual solutions. 

 

Talk of regulators is fanciful as it's almost impossible to enforce. FFP stops you doing what Chelsea did and just buy up a boat load of talent - we know because we were told that when PIF took over. You can try to legitimise sponsorships if you want but again, good luck getting that to pass the courts because you can't dictate what a company deems fair value. The chance to stop all this was when Abramovich came in and we didn't. The only reason we even saw him stopped was because he had ties to someone attacking a fellow European country. We're not going to suddenly start removing owners tied to fighting wars in the middle east. I'd like us to have more of a conscious with this stuff, but the sad truth is our governments do too many deals with these types to make such a thing possible.

 

The place we're at now - as a society - means simply expelling them won't achieve anything. You're going to have drag them towards our way of thinking (if such a thing is even possible). 

[STM]

Can we have a "I'm uncomfortable with Saudi Ownership but seriously hate the British press," thread?