Deuce Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 For what it’s worth, the media scrunity will die down sooner rather than later. Staveley and Co. will go on charm campaign and the success of the club on the pitch will quiet the human rights talk. Because the enduring truth of our modern society is that nobody gives a shit two weeks later. Opposing supporters will have their chants and snide remarks, but if it wasn’t Saudi-based they’d simply find something else to bitch about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Flip said: Mike begs to differ. I really tee’d that one up. Sorry, Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I'm uncomfortable with their ownership, but more because as a football purist I think these sorts of transactions are ruining the competitivity of the game. It's poor governance and greed. I'm a believer in the whole 50+1 giving fans the largest say type model. What owners do politically or morally away from the club is largely down to governments and activist groups, although, if it brings a particular club into disrepute then fair dues if fans want to speak out. And it's for that reason you could argue we should be speaking out now, and I feel uncomfortable because there's a degree of hypocrisy from people like me who protested vs Ashley for his working ethics. However, I did so as a tool to get him out my club when he started asset stripping rather than to drive him out of Sports Direct. I find myself making excuses to detract from a poor human rights record and that's wrong. The whole thing is "if you can't beat 'em, join' em". Does that make us as fans the bad guys though? I don't think so... (apologies for the lack of structure in what I'm trying to say...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, ManDoon said: Yeah 100 percent, it’s the way things are unfortunately. I don’t take anything other PL supporters are saying on board at all, that is literally just because we are good. I would be interested though to hear if people on here who hate PSG, which there was a fair few, are arsed that we will become that? I don’t remember much love for City or PSG. Morality aside it’s whether you lose the soul of the clubs. In fairness I'm not sure PSG had much soul to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Piece from the North of Tyne mayor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorCoarse Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, BlueStar said: Piece from the North of Tyne mayor Met Jamie in a Labour Party meeting , nice bloke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-more Mag Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said: I mean if people actually take action (I assume a small amount will) and walk away from the club (or campaign against the owners or something) then fair play to them, they aren't posturing. The vast majority of it is though, I just cannot wrap my brain around how anyone could be 'conflicted' about something as legitimately serious as human rights, and human rights abusers purchasing their club, and still come to the conclusion that it's okay to support said club. Like personally I'm perfectly fine in admitting that I couldn't give a shit who owns us as long as I can enjoy watching football again. Adolf Hitler could have rose from the grave to buy out Ashley and I'd have shook the blokes hand. Supporting the club doesn't equal supporting the KSA. It's perfectly coherent to love the club and continue to support it while thoroughly condemning the harms perpetrated by the KSA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 minute ago, ManDoon said: Overall a good piece but that “people in glass house/ There is a racist/colonial view of human rights in the west” is such unmitigated cope and nonsense. It’s not racist to call out human rights abuses. He shouldn’t have included that nonsense. I agree. However, what I would argue is that at a point in history, we also would have had human rights abuses on a list as long as our arms. We just live in a different world now, with increased surveillence and spotlights on such crime. Perhaps, this is a movement by the Saudis into the modern world. Perhaps I'm being naive, but I suppose everyone needs the chance of redwmption, as a nation (not so much as individuals). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorCoarse Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Just now, Heron said: I agree. However, what I would argue is that at a point in history, we also would have had human rights abuses on a list as long as our arms. We just live in a different world now, with increased surveillence and spotlights on such crime. Perhaps, this is a movement by the Saudis into the modern world. Perhaps I'm being naive, but I suppose everyone needs the chance of redwmption, as a nation (not so much as individuals). A point in history ? Bombing Iraq was a game of dominos ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, ManDoon said: Overall a good piece but that “people in glass house/ There is a racist/colonial view of human rights in the west” is such unmitigated cope and nonsense. It’s not racist to call out human rights abuses. He shouldn’t have included that nonsense It's really not and I say that as someone who fully realises who MBS is. You might have the blinkers on where the west is concerned. Our own societies may have more freedom but our and the U.S actions abroad, or in fact our sponsorship and trading with the very regimes you say are night and day to our own is there for all to see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Just now, InspectorCoarse said: A point in history ? Bombing Iraq was a game of dominos ? Well yeah, so I guess that further strengthens my point in relation to that article. My overall point, is that we're all just hypocrites calling out one anothers hypocrisy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) I’m also absolutely not looking forward to the dregs of our fan base thinking they see common ground with our new owners and feeling emboldend to peddle their right-wing homophobic, misogynistic, and racist bullshit. Edited October 10, 2021 by Tomato Deuce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I don’t really see how western politics comes into this debate at all. They can say it’s not all they want but it’s the state of Saudi Arabia funding us. No western state is funding a football team afaik so I don’t get why they’re being brought into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorCoarse Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Where do people think the Saudis got the bombs to bomb Yemen with ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) “you can’t criticize the Saudis because the West is bad, too” isn’t the slam dunk some of y’all think it is. Edited October 10, 2021 by Tomato Deuce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 minute ago, InspectorCoarse said: Where do people think the Saudis got the bombs to bomb Yemen with ? Well the West obviously but I don’t think anybody here is saying they’re in favour of that so I don’t see what it has to do with this debate. If it’s your attempt at saying people uncomfortable with the takeover are being hypocritical because they’re citizens of the west it’s a terrible effort at a gotcha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I read somewhere that dismembering a critical journalist with a bonesaw is an Arabian folk tradition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Wullie said: I read somewhere that dismembering a critical journalist with a bonesaw is an Arabian folk tradition. Oh no mate, you can’t say that because the UK government that you obviously must love sells them guns!!! Edited October 10, 2021 by Smal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, ManDoon said: Actually it really is. You’re completely obfuscating the point. What is the deal with the left suddenly denigrating actual positives about our society. It’s not racist or colonialist to point out human rights abuses. It’s absurd thinking. I don’t have blinkers on thanks. The Chinese internment of Muslims is awful man” ”yeah but that’s a bit imperialist and racist to point that out because we’ve got a bad record of foreign policy” Sure. I'm not obfuscating anything man, you're making up points I haven't and wouldn't make. It's really simple, our own societies are clearly freer and don't have the human rights issues internally that the Saudis have. Our and the U.S's foreign actions abroad are easily comparable and historically over a long and short period far beyond the atrocities of the Saudis. Why you're only looking domestically, I'm not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Pilgrim Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 We are dancing with the devil. Make peace with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ManDoon said: In our own society? I disagreed with the war in Iraq, I disagree with all western intervention abroad. In terms of our actual functioning society though it’s literally different planets. I hate the fact the term racist is even attached to criticism of another country. It’s insane. The left just eats itself constantly, it’s really sad. The middle east is well behind the times (from our western perspective) in a multitide of ways and hence why I (perhaps naively) think sportswashing may help drag a region or nation forward by bridging gaps in culture and belief. I agree, I don't think it's racist to say that (about the middle east). I'm just trying say though, that as a nation we cannot ignore our past, when trying to analyse anothers present/future. Edited October 10, 2021 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) And it's not a case at all of saying that you can't criticise the Saudis because the west is bad, it's purely in response to you saying that they're incomparable and not as bad. Of course you can and should criticise the Saudis. Edited October 10, 2021 by kisearch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Not calling anyone out and I know it comes with the territory in a thread like this, but let's do what we can to keep it as relevant to the context of NUFC as possible. It's a complicated but important thread/discussion so it's vital that we try and keep it on track and not get bombarded in the nitty gritty and political differences. Hope this doesn't come across as officious, just being wary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Not calling anyone out and I know it comes with the territory in a thread like this, but let's do what we can to keep it as relevant to the context of NUFC as possible. It's a complicated but important thread/discussion so it's vital that we try and keep it on track and not get bombarded in the nitty gritty and political differences. Hope this doesn't come across as officious, just being wary. Aye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Total rabbitholes going on now. Isn’t it okay to just say as the title suggests - I’m conflicted? There is no resolution to this argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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