The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[GWN]

2 hours ago, Armchair Pundit said:

I know in the past we've questioned whether this forum and opinions on it are a true representation of the general nufc support on certain topics within the club, but I do think it can turn into having a certain level of being a bit of an echo chamber and trying to out-do each other in some threads. I honestly don't believe the majority of fans care about what KSA might or might not have done in their past or whether this whole thing is sports-washing for their future. If someone wants to dress as an Arab Sheik or wave a Saudi flag that's up to them, I get that some people aren't going to be comfortable with that but on the whole, I think it's only going to bother a small amount of people by comparison, who tend to react more strongly to controversial subjects. That's just my take on it though and I don't live in the North East so I could easily be misreading it.

 

 

dressing as an Arab to me looks stupid but harmless banter, the flag thing I’ve a problem with but wouldn’t go out of my way to make a scene about it.

 

Im very aware of what KSA are about but why should I protest ? Many have taken their money , my wife is battling a life threatening illness I have more to worry about , yes it’s about the money and the “Man City”:feeling we have , ive had enough shit to deal with , i want some joy in my life around NUFC and no fucker will make me feel bad about it , the KSA has nothing to do with me , human rights etc I can’t influence, i don’t like it but what really can I do .Call me what you want, I don’t care, im here for the football.

 

If it wasn’t us it would be another big club, simple as.

[Kanji]

Life’s too short, IMO. Just try and live in the moment and enjoy as much as you can. @GWNevery bit of my heart and mind is hoping your wife can beat the life threatening illness and then you and yours can just enjoy life (+football, NUFC too) mate. 

[OpenC]

3 hours ago, Armchair Pundit said:

I know in the past we've questioned whether this forum and opinions on it are a true representation of the general nufc support on certain topics within the club, but I do think it can turn into having a certain level of being a bit of an echo chamber and trying to out-do each other in some threads. I honestly don't believe the majority of fans care about what KSA might or might not have done in their past or whether this whole thing is sports-washing for their future. If someone wants to dress as an Arab Sheik or wave a Saudi flag that's up to them, I get that some people aren't going to be comfortable with that but on the whole, I think it's only going to bother a small amount of people by comparison, who tend to react more strongly to controversial subjects. That's just my take on it though and I don't live in the North East so I could easily be misreading it.

 

I'm lucky enough to work with and have the opportunity to speak to literally almost every part of society (and often about football, with the most unlikely people).  This is 100% the case in my experience - the prevailing and strongly held views on this forum are not, by and large, held more widely. Other than on the merits of Steve Bruce, that one is pretty universal with people who are interested in NUFC

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by OpenC

[GWN]

27 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Life’s too short, IMO. Just try and live in the moment and enjoy as much as you can. @GWNevery bit of my heart and mind is hoping your wife can beat the life threatening illness and then you and yours can just enjoy life (+football, NUFC too) mate. 

Thanks @Kanji very kind she’s every reason I need a release into the dreamland of NUFC. I care for her every day of the week and no cunt will make me feel bad about enjoying the biggest thing to ever happen to Newcastle United , no one. Thanks again .

[Guest HTT II]

2 hours ago, GWN said:

Thanks @Kanji very kind she’s every reason I need a release into the dreamland of NUFC. I care for her every day of the week and no cunt will make me feel bad about enjoying the biggest thing to ever happen to Newcastle United , no one. Thanks again .

Sorry to hear about your wife’s illness, as you’ve said, these are time to just enjoy. I hope your wife gets better mate 

[Darth Crooks]

I don’t think any nufc fan who by and large are abreast of the situation re: Ashley and the situation upon now wants to make people feel bad about supporting their club. Leave that to the clickbait cycle journalists and disingenuous who deliberately only see half the story. There’s good ones out there of course too.

 

There’s no good reason though to fly Saudi flags, dress as Arabs or MBS imo however and myriad other ways you can express that celebration. I know this veers toward freedoms and being told what to do and honestly as condescending as it likely sounds if you’re going to dress as MBS you’re probably a bit ill informed or thick.

 

Freedoms come with liberty of scrutiny as well as opinion. Practically speaking I won’t be buying strips from now on with Saudi aramco etc and I tend to wear retro ones anyway. It’s probably seen as over sensitive or whatever but it has nothing to do with my team or heritage and I don’t begrudge anyone who enjoys the period we’re going through now within reason.

[Darth Crooks]

Just to present the other side of it. Listening to the Guardian football podcast (yeah I know) the other day and, Glendenning aside, it was mind numbingly frustrating how the picture was being portrayed of riches coming in over what came before. 'How bad could Mike Ashley be to want THIS lol' Well, do some fucking research then - talk to fans. Don't rely on someone with a heavy Sunderland bias. James O' Brien did a phone in on why Newcastle fans were so happy and it was quite balanced and one guy came on and said it's because they never won anything under Ashley. Noone knew any different to challenge it. We all know of course and its why the discourse on here is different.

 

Still, if folk insist on dressing up as a bloke who has his family under house arrest and is responsible for the deaths of journalists and children in the Yemen (with help from our lot lol) then don't be so precious as not to get some stick for it from however small a minority of fans with a modicum of conscience. I', also not going to give up something I've done all my life including 400 mile round trips with my dad and my brother whom I barely see these days and is part of my cultural NE heritage on the basis of half-baked pearl clutching rhetoric either. Let's see if they give up film or the theatre so quickly under identical circumstances. I can't choose my allegiances like that along with many others.

 

Not digging out anyone in particular here btw and it's my two penneth of course 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Darth Crooks

[Happinesstan]

I find it a bit weird that some people don't give a shit about our new owners' history, but are aghast at the thought of fans flying the flag of Saudi Arabia to welcome them.

[STM]

It's not that I don't sympathise with those living over there, it's that I don't see how me supporting a football team makes the slightest bit of difference.

 

More over, I don't see what people raising the human rights issues are achieving. What do you want me specifically to do? Protest? Not go to games?

 

Our government and previous governments and all governments around the world recognise them as a legitimate state and are dealing with them as such. I find it hard to believe that me sacrificing my support of a football team is the straw that breaks the camels back.

 

Should something be done? Absolutely, but not by me and I won't feel guilty because I didn't throw my shirt in the bin because of this deal.

 

[B-more Mag]

8 hours ago, Armchair Pundit said:

I know in the past we've questioned whether this forum and opinions on it are a true representation of the general nufc support on certain topics within the club, but I do think it can turn into having a certain level of being a bit of an echo chamber and trying to out-do each other in some threads. I honestly don't believe the majority of fans care about what KSA might or might not have done in their past or whether this whole thing is sports-washing for their future. If someone wants to dress as an Arab Sheik or wave a Saudi flag that's up to them, I get that some people aren't going to be comfortable with that but on the whole, I think it's only going to bother a small amount of people by comparison, who tend to react more strongly to controversial subjects. That's just my take on it though and I don't live in the North East so I could easily be misreading it.

 

The fact that many people are somewhere in the range of willfully ignorant to callous doesn't mean it's okay to be willfully ignorant to callous. 

[STM]

11 minutes ago, B-more Mag said:

 

The fact that many people are somewhere in the range of willfully ignorant to callous doesn't mean it's okay to be willfully ignorant to callous. 

What does that even mean though?

 

I sometimes think people fail to live in the real world. Like it or not, politics, human rights, sportswashing etc isn't even in the conscious of some lad in Byker wanting to go and watch his team.

 

It's not because they are "ignorant" or "callous", which is just virtue signalling btw. Its because they are human and humans are selfish by their very nature.

 

I find it far more ignorant that someone should feel the need to tell someone how they should feel, what they should prioritise and what they should think.

 

Just leave people be. If you want to protest against this stuff, great, more power to you but it doesn't make others bad or ignorant, they are just probably going about their lives trying to make ends meet.

 

(Not a rant aimed specifically at you.)

[B-more Mag]

10 minutes ago, STM said:

What does that even mean though?

 

I sometimes think people fail to live in the real world. Like it or not, politics, human rights, sportswashing etc isn't even in the conscious of some lad in Byker wanting to go and watch his team.

 

It's not because they are "ignorant" or "callous", which is just virtue signalling btw. Its because they are human and humans are selfish by their very nature.

 

I find it far more ignorant that someone should feel the need to tell someone how they should feel, what they should prioritise and what they should think.

 

Just leave people be. If you want to protest against this stuff, great, more power to you but it doesn't make others bad or ignorant, they are just probably going about their lives trying to make ends meet.

 

(Not a rant aimed specifically at you.)

 

That's all giving people a pass. If you follow the club at all, then at this point you know the issues around Saudi Arabia--at least at a very basic level--even if you didn't before. Going ahead a dressing like a sheik or waiving the Saudi flag is just poking people in the eye.

 

 "Virtue signaling" is one of the stupidest phrases currently in circulation. And fuck you very much for saying I was engaging in it. 

[TRon]

13 hours ago, aa5773 said:

Not an opinion, just a question:
How would you would react if in the future Newcastle play in Saudi Arabia for the benefit of the kingdom directly (like promoting the kingdom ideal). That would be a very much "sportwashing" event in the max. Would people that are on fence now still support Newcastle? Or would you quit supporting Newcastle?

 

 

What do you mean by directly for the benefit of the SA kingdom? I already said I would have no problem at all with the Newcastle team going over there to play a game of football. If there was a public flogging in the stadium at half time then I think we would have issues though.

[wormy]

3 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

What do you mean by directly for the benefit of the SA kingdom? I already said I would have no problem at all with the Newcastle team going over there to play a game of football. If there was a public flogging in the stadium at half time then I think we would have issues though.

 

 

Hold on, now.. Maybe we keep Bruce around for one more preseason?

[Chicken Dancer]

9 hours ago, GWN said:

 

 

dressing as an Arab to me looks stupid but harmless banter, the flag thing I’ve a problem with but wouldn’t go out of my way to make a scene about it.

 

Im very aware of what KSA are about but why should I protest ? Many have taken their money , my wife is battling a life threatening illness I have more to worry about , yes it’s about the money and the “Man City”:feeling we have , ive had enough shit to deal with , i want some joy in my life around NUFC and no fucker will make me feel bad about it , the KSA has nothing to do with me , human rights etc I can’t influence, i don’t like it but what really can I do .Call me what you want, I don’t care, im here for the football.

 

If it wasn’t us it would be another big club, simple as.

 

Good luck to you and your family mate. Hoping NUFC can provide the release you deserve.

[InspectorCoarse]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/12/dont-blame-the-toon-army-for-saudi-oppression/

[B-more Mag]

The correct positions are: (1) fans obviously aren't responsible for solving Saudia Arabia's problems, they shouldn't be chastised for celebrating the takeover and continuing to support the club, and they shouldn't be expected to mount a protest campaign against Saudi Arabia; and (2) fans also should not be dicks who do blatantly offensive things like dressing as sheiks or waiving Saudi flags. Issue resolved.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by B-more Mag

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, B-more Mag said:

The correct positions are: (1) fans obviously aren't responsible for solving Saudia Arabia's problems, they shouldn't be chastised for celebrating the takeover and continuing to support the club, and they shouldn't be expected to mount a protest campaign against Saudi Arabia; and (2) fans also should not be dicks who do blatantly offensive things like dressing as sheiks or waiving Saudi flags. Issue resolved.

 

 

 

 

But when you get 50k fans in a stadium, you should expect a few dicks among them, it is inevitable, Call them out by all means, just don't get too wound up about it. 

[B-more Mag]

19 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

But when you get 50k fans in a stadium, you should expect a few dicks among them, it is inevitable, Call them out by all means, just don't get too wound up about it. 

 

 Definitely.

 

[dinotheprehistoricgeordie]

On 13/10/2021 at 13:57, Rafalove said:

This is a pretty excellent video, with lots of information I actually didn’t know about.

 

 

 

Good video, I also didn't realise how truly horrific the Hull owners are. I guess Ashley's treatment of us wasn't the only instance of the media ignoring a club being mistreated.

[Awaymag]

19 hours ago, B-more Mag said:

The correct positions are: (1) fans obviously aren't responsible for solving Saudia Arabia's problems, they shouldn't be chastised for celebrating the takeover and continuing to support the club, and they shouldn't be expected to mount a protest campaign against Saudi Arabia; and (2) fans also should not be dicks who do blatantly offensive things like dressing as sheiks or waiving Saudi flags. Issue resolved.

 

 

 

All good except one issue.

 

Say a Saudi living in the UK or comes to visit from abroad.   Are you saying that they shouldnt bring their Saudi flag with them etc.   Like it  or not we can't police who comes to watch NUFC.

[David Edgar]

Long article on the Athletic outlining the struggles faced by the LGBT+ community in Saudi Arabia. 

 

Quote

Zarah, a lesbian woman seeking asylum outside of Saudi Arabia, says: “We are not asking for sympathy or pity but we do ask for a voice. We just want our story to be heard as it really is. The truth is that it is heartbreaking to see people in the West who celebrate the people behind this takeover, who celebrate our oppressors. We see videos of people brandishing the Saudi flag or wearing a headdress. It just triggers a feeling of powerlessness.”

 

I think everyone should read that paragraph in particular.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by David Edgar

[Ben]

It looks like funding has been found to have a protest against the Saudis on Sunday, it all seems very suspicious, I hope the top 6 don't have anything to do with it.

[NE27]

7 minutes ago, Ben said:

It looks like funding has been found to have a protest against the Saudis on Sunday, it all seems very suspicious, I hope the top 6 don't have anything to do with it.

 

What's this about?

[Ben]

2 minutes ago, NE27 said:

 

What's this about?

Initially a poster van driving around Newcastle insulting the new Chairman I think.