The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[nbthree3]

 

[Guest]

 

I'll enjoy this while it lasts. 

[nbthree3]

36 minutes ago, nbthree3 said:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/government-seeks-to-finalise-sovereign-investment-deal-with-saudi-arabia-12566809

 

The government is closing in on a multibillion pound investment deal with Saudi Arabia that would provide a backdrop to crucial talks on the Gulf state's oil production.

Sky News understands that ministers have been working for weeks to finalise a new sovereign investment partnership (SIP) with Riyadh that would replicate a £10bn alliance unveiled with an Abu Dhabi state investment fund last year.

 

If the alliance follows the model used in Abu Dhabi, it would utilise Saudi's main sovereign wealth vehicle, the Public Investment Fund, which is now best-known in Britain as the owner of Newcastle United Football Club.

The SIP with Mubadala, which is jointly run by the government's Office for Investment, earmarked billions of pounds for investment in sectors including technology, energy transition and life sciences.

[TRon]

18 hours ago, leffe186 said:

…So yeah, a combination of things but parity (or the loss of it) was at the root. Abramovich. The Champions League. Mansour. West Ham and the Olympic Stadium vs Leyton Orient. The utter balls-up they’re making of VAR. Man City, Man U and Liverpool shirts all over London playgrounds. Drip. Drip. Drip. I stuck with it for a while because my team seemed to be doing it the “right” way, but I’d had enough a long time ago.
 

Found out this week that one of my Dad’s passwords is KaneSon61, which simultaneously make me feel happy and sad. He’d become disillusioned with modern football way before me but was never not going to be a Spurs fan and just fucking loves the game. I still want Spurs to win every game 5-0. It just truly does not feel like the same game any more, and the number of ways that was true reached critical mass.

 

I’m just an old fogey, basically

 

Yeah we know what it feels like to go from being one of the top clubs in England to basically fighting to be mid-table. I also felt some resentment to clubs like Chelsea and Man City basically blowing everyone else out of the water with their wealth, but tbh, you still had it pretty good compared to us. Spurs have consistently been around the CL positions, you have had great managers, and great football to watch.

 

I think I'd be more on the same page as your dad tbh, as long as we were still competitive, the club would be a big part of my life. The problem for us of course, was we were bought by someone who thought we were a cash cow.

 

I agree that there's something wrong with the game where the biggest pockets decide who will be the biggest club, personally I think NUFC (and Spurs as well) would be more than capable of punching their weight if owner's wealth wasn't a factor. But we had to live with this system for the last 20 years, I'm certainly not going to sniff at it now it's our turn to pitch in with the big boys. I agree with @ManDoon, sport is not a moral compass once you get to the professional level. When the stakes are so high, money is going to affect it. Football is probably not much worse than other sports other than because it is so popular, it attracts more money. Honestly, if it was me in your position I think I would just live with it. Spurs are hardly bit part players, they have one of the best managers in the world, some great players, and they are still fighting for CL places. Cheer up mate! 

[leffe186]

6 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Yeah we know what it feels like to go from being one of the top clubs in England to basically fighting to be mid-table. I also felt some resentment to clubs like Chelsea and Man City basically blowing everyone else out of the water with their wealth, but tbh, you still had it pretty good compared to us. Spurs have consistently been around the CL positions, you have had great managers, and great football to watch.

 

I think I'd be more on the same page as your dad tbh, as long as we were still competitive, the club would be a big part of my life. The problem for us of course, was we were bought by someone who thought we were a cash cow.

 

I agree that there's something wrong with the game where the biggest pockets decide who will be the biggest club, personally I think NUFC (and Spurs as well) would be more than capable of punching their weight if owner's wealth wasn't a factor. But we had to live with this system for the last 20 years, I'm certainly not going to sniff at it now it's our turn to pitch in with the big boys. I agree with @ManDoon, sport is not a moral compass once you get to the professional level. When the stakes are so high, money is going to affect it. Football is probably not much worse than other sports other than because it is so popular, it attracts more money. Honestly, if it was me in your position I think I would just live with it. Spurs are hardly bit part players, they have one of the best managers in the world, some great players, and they are still fighting for CL places. Cheer up mate! 

Cheers . That’s partly my point though, it’s not so much about whether my team is good or not, more that I just don’t like what football is any more. I was biding my time for a few years and when the CL run came along my plan was to sign off after one of our greatest achievements. One soft as fuck handball later…

[Jackie Broon]

11 hours ago, The Prophet said:

It keeps coming back to the same issues.

 

Public Investment Funds, Royal Family members and the like should not be allowed to purchase and run football clubs.

 

It becomes even more of an issue when those entities and individuals have problematic backgrounds or continuously commit barbaric acts. War, slavery, assisnstions, etc.

 

An effective governing body would have scrutinised these issues under a fit and proper owners test. The Premier League failed to do so because they prioritised expanding their global brand and raking in the cash.

 

Sky and other broadcasters have passively accepted this, cheering on the grotesque spending of cash from these club owners.

 

An invasion of a European Country occurs and an individual linked to the invading party owns one of these football clubs. The governing body and the broadcasters knew what he was when they let him purchase it, but they need to be seen at the very least to be outraged.

 

So what so they do? Hound football managers, call out sets of fans and generally put it on the folk who carry the least blame on the matter.

 

Meanwhile there is zero scrutiny of the Premier League and the money continues to roll in, happy days.

 

 

 

 

How is a governing body meant to make assessments like that? How are they meant to gather enough evidence to prove that Abramovich came by his money in such a way that would make him fail their test? Ultimately it is not the place of a governing body to scrutinise those issues, it's the place of government.

 

As far as I'm aware, other than football, there is no other circumstance in the UK where prospective owners of a business have to go through an owners and directors test. The only other is for directors of NHS trusts and that is enshrined in law, unlike the football owners and directors test.

 

Why should owning a football club be different to owning any other business or sporting club? If it decided that football is so important to us culturally that who can own clubs should be specially restricted, the test should be enshrined in law and independently assessed by a government body.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jackie Broon

[TRon]

1 hour ago, leffe186 said:

Cheers . That’s partly my point though, it’s not so much about whether my team is good or not, more that I just don’t like what football is any more. I was biding my time for a few years and when the CL run came along my plan was to sign off after one of our greatest achievements. One soft as fuck handball later…

 

But that's professional sport, I guess the argument would be, once money comes into it, why should it be any different to any other profession?

 

 

[madras]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

But that's professional sport, I guess the argument would be, once money comes into it, why should it be any different to any other profession?

 

 

Money has always been in it. The supposed oldest club in the world, Sheffield fc, was set up to make money from the cricket pitch in the winter, then we get to Alf Common's transfer and the dodgy deals to induce players to move before that.

 

Money has always been a deciding factor....just know the figures are ridiculous.

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, madras said:

Money has always been in it. The supposed oldest club in the world, Sheffield fc, was set up to make money from the cricket pitch in the winter, then we get to Alf Common's transfer and the dodgy deals to induce players to move before that.

 

Money has always been a deciding factor....just know the figures are ridiculous.

 

That's how it works. The figures made 50 shades of Grey author a millionaire, is that any less ridiculous?

 

 

[Awaymag]

8 hours ago, nbthree3 said:

https://news.sky.com/story/government-seeks-to-finalise-sovereign-investment-deal-with-saudi-arabia-12566809

 

The government is closing in on a multibillion pound investment deal with Saudi Arabia that would provide a backdrop to crucial talks on the Gulf state's oil production.

Sky News understands that ministers have been working for weeks to finalise a new sovereign investment partnership (SIP) with Riyadh that would replicate a £10bn alliance unveiled with an Abu Dhabi state investment fund last year.

 

If the alliance follows the model used in Abu Dhabi, it would utilise Saudi's main sovereign wealth vehicle, the Public Investment Fund, which is now best-known in Britain as the owner of Newcastle United Football Club.

The SIP with Mubadala, which is jointly run by the government's Office for Investment, earmarked billions of pounds for investment in sectors including technology, energy transition and life sciences.

So if the above is true then the UK government is working in partnership with PIF.  So will that then shut down this whole fucking agitator from the usual media shits?

[Jordan]

13 hours ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Klopp name dropped us the other day when talking about Chelsea and saying ownership needs looking at. 

Coming from the bloke who’s clubs owners tried to destabilise european football. 

[madras]

21 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

So if the above is true then the UK government is working in partnership with PIF.  So will that then shut down this whole fucking agitator from the usual media shits?

At this rate we might get a penalty.

[triggs]

43 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

So if the above is true then the UK government is working in partnership with PIF.  So will that then shut down this whole fucking agitator from the usual media shits?

I don't think the journos point has ever been that they expect sanctions to be imposed on Saudi Arabia so I don't see why it would

[veriaqa]

6 hours ago, madras said:

At this rate we might get a penalty.

 

That would be excellent tho. If NUFC can get penalty match in match out that would help NUFC alot.

[RS]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60754163
Boris, the bone sawing bastard. FTM

[Awaymag]

8 hours ago, triggs said:

I don't think the journos point has ever been that they expect sanctions to be imposed on Saudi Arabia so I don't see why it would

Wow

[The Prophet]

 

We need journos like Delaney to keep banging the drum when it comes sportswashing and the like, but fuck me he's a hypocrite.

[Shadow Puppets]

As much as I can't stand the guy, it's hard to disagree with anything Jordan says here: 

 

[Rafalove]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

 

We need journos like Delaney to keep banging the drum when it comes sportswashing and the like, but fuck me he's a hypocrite.

 

How is he a hypocrite? Genuine question.

[The Prophet]

29 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

 

How is he a hypocrite? Genuine question.

 

For a kick off, He's employed by the independent who is 70% owned by Evgeny Levedev (Russian) and Muhammed Abuljadaye (Saudi). 

 

On top of that he's more or less Roman a free pass, up until the Ukraine invasion and was perfectly happy to attend Russia during the 2018 World Cup coverage.

 

I think it's really important journalist's like him continue to talk about the likes of Saudi and Qatar in football, but his constant attacks on fans and generally sneering tone toward them is really misguided and quite irritating.

 

All in all I think the work he does is really important and I have no issues with him questioning our ownership, I just don't like the bloke.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by The Prophet

[triggs]

Tbf prior to the last few months I'm not sure Abramovich or Russia were worthy of as much criticism as UAE/Saudi Arabia. Obviously how he got his money was always known to be dodgy and his links to Putin were known but Putin's reputation basically went to Hitler levels overnight but it wasn't always *that* bad

[Yassassin]

2 minutes ago, triggs said:

Tbf prior to the last few months I'm not sure Abramovich or Russia were worthy of as much criticism as UAE/Saudi Arabia. Obviously how he got his money was always known to be dodgy and his links to Putin were known but Putin's reputation basically went to Hitler levels overnight but it wasn't always *that* bad

He went not long after the Salisbury poisonings and the shooting down of MH17 during the continuing suppression of human rights and in particular political opposition by the Putin regime; he is a top notch hypocrite but England actually played the tournament and many of his arguments are correct

[Wullie]

This is one of the main reasons I was so uncomfortable about the takeover, the reputation of the club being tied to anything that happens with Saudi.

  

On 19/04/2020 at 22:40, Wullie said:

It's hard to say where the line is without knowing what the Saudis do politically in future. Like, what is going to happen with their war in Yemen? Our club's good name is always going to be tied to whatever they're up to.

 

There's a remarkable amount of wanting to have your cake and eat it going on at the minute. We decided that taking the blood money was worth it to get rid of Ashley but we also want nobody to mention it? It's downright weird. If you didn't want to read that "the owners of Newcastle United executed 81 people over the weekend" in the paper, then the thing to do was oppose the takeover, not moan about journalists commenting on it. If you were enthusiastically waving your Saudi flag and buzzing about the whole thing, it's no good whinging about it, this is the inevitable price you agreed to pay for that.

[Wullie]

I'm not sure attending an event as a journalist counts as tacit support, not unless Clive Myrie is a big supporter of the war in Ukraine.

[Yassassin]

Just now, Wullie said:

I'm not sure attending an event as a journalist counts as tacit support, not unless Clive Myrie is a big supporter of the war in Ukraine.

You see the war as an ‘event’? Interesting take