The Semi-Finals: Argentina and France through

[gbandit]

Ronaldo going out and having a shit tournament has been a highlight for sure, I think this tournament has been weaker than ever before on new names / stars coming through which is a shame but maybe that’s just more indicative of scouting networks being so comprehensive these days. I would have liked maybe a few more howlers or dramas on the pitch and the refs have been awful in the knockouts but I’m delighted Messi is still in with a chance of the World Cup and really

pleased for Morocco. Fairly happy with where the semis are at but if it’s France - Croatia again I’m going to struggle to get up for the final 

[Flip]

With time I hope people will realize what a player Cristiano was and admire that a lot his faults is what made him become one of the greatest to ever play this game. I’ve never been his biggest fan, but he made a nation believe in something that for so long was impossible to believe in. He brought the second biggest trophy in international football home. Seeing people happy at the demise of him as an individual and calling it a major highlight is sad and shows that a lot of football fans nowadays focus on the wrong thing.

[Lush Vlad]

I can admire him for his workrate and ability. Whilst also thinking he is an absolute bellend and not liking all the off field stuff with him. 

[Kimbo]

His ego is part of what made him the player he was, but as his ability declined his ego didn’t. He was incapable of humbling himself and him thinking he was bigger than Man Utd, and using Piers Morgan to try and attack them, made him look rather silly. If he was more humble and willing to take a role suited to his current abilities he would still be wanted by some pretty big clubs in Europe.
 

I think he is rated appropriately though, as the second best of his generation and a great goalscorer. I’m not sure what more he could ask for.

[Bizza]

Anyone but France please. 

[gbandit]

Aye, I’ve got enormous respect for him as a player. When he was reaching his peak in his last year at Man U and his years at Real, he was an outstanding force, who had the ability to win games through both his ability and his will. He’s probably the best header of a ball that I can think of and his ego has dragged titles to his teams at times that just wouldn’t have happened with a less aggressive player. However, I’ve always disliked him as an individual and it’ll always annoy me how commentators wax lyrical about his free kicks and, not so much nowadays, but his dribbling. He was never an elite dribbler but people made out like he was out of this world. What makes him amazing is his ego, his aerial ability and his striking off both feet. None of that compensates for the fact that he’s clearly an extremely unlikeable narcissist

[rgk_lfc]

2 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Aye, I’ve got enormous respect for him as a player. When he was reaching his peak in his last year at Man U and his years at Real, he was an outstanding force, who had the ability to win games through both his ability and his will. He’s probably the best header of a ball that I can think of and his ego has dragged titles to his teams at times that just wouldn’t have happened with a less aggressive player. However, I’ve always disliked him as an individual and it’ll always annoy me how commentators wax lyrical about his free kicks and, not so much nowadays, but his dribbling. He was never an elite dribbler but people made out like he was out of this world. What makes him amazing is his ego, his aerial ability and his striking off both feet. None of that compensates for the fact that he’s clearly an extremely unlikeable narcissist

 

He was an explosive dribbler when he broke out at Man United. When he transitioned to a fantastic goal scorer during the later stages of his Man United career he cut down on his dribbling. Made him less exciting but far more effective. 

[gbandit]

He had great pace for sure and could beat a man with pace but I wouldn’t ever say he was a great dribbler. His stepovers etc was mostly ornate and the vast majority of the time didn’t buy him much, it was all down to his pace and strength. His actual technical dribbling ability is nowhere near the level of many contemporaries 

[dorty]

He couldn't get off that pitch quick enough last night. I don't think he bothered with any of his own players, straight down the tunnel.

[St1pe]

12 minutes ago, dorty said:

He couldn't get off that pitch quick enough last night. I don't think he bothered with any of his own players, straight down the tunnel.

I think it’s pretty clear why. The press are dying to get their shot of him crying and that camera guy followed him down the tunnel to catch it. 
 

Mentioned this earlier in the thread but the pile on him has been weird. He’s one of the two best players to ever play the game and it’s seemingly all forgotten as his form has dropped since he hit 38. 
 

I’ve always found his ego too much and that wide stance free kick people used to cream over that hit the target one in a thousand times was built up to be this set piece specialist annoyed me. Yet people talk about him like he’s always been shit. Baffles me. 

[gbandit]

Are people really making out like he’s shit though? I thought everyone is pretty much in agreement that he’s one of the top five footballers to ever play the game even if they dislike him 

[rgk_lfc]

5 minutes ago, St1pe said:

I think it’s pretty clear why. The press are dying to get their shot of him crying and that camera guy followed him down the tunnel to catch it. 
 

Mentioned this earlier in the thread but the pile on him has been weird. He’s one of the two best players to ever play the game and it’s seemingly all forgotten as his form has dropped since he hit 38. 
 

I’ve always found his ego too much and that wide stance free kick people used to cream over that hit the target one in a thousand times was built up to be this set piece specialist annoyed me. Yet people talk about him like he’s always been shit. Baffles me. 

 

I don't think anyone is denying what a great player he was. But when you are dislikable, people do tend to laugh at you when you are down. Michael Owen, Suarez being other examples. 

 

I find the "his ego is what propelled him to greatness and caused him to walk away at the end of the game" excuse also weird. Plenty of great players had a not so perfect end to their career - Tendulkar, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan at the Wizards. In the end, they did step of the court gracefully. 

 

Morocco reaching the semi finals was an epic achievement. He could have stayed back congratulated all of them and then thanked the fans and left. Instead he tried to make the moment about him. I wouldn't be surprised if the camera guy following him down the tunnel was orchestrated by his PR team as a weird way to generate sympathy. 

 

 

[Flip]

19 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

I don't think anyone is denying what a great player he was. But when you are dislikable, people do tend to laugh at you when you are down. Michael Owen, Suarez being other examples. 

 

I find the "his ego is what propelled him to greatness and caused him to walk away at the end of the game" excuse also weird. Plenty of great players had a not so perfect end to their career - Tendulkar, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan at the Wizards. In the end, they did step of the court gracefully. 

 

Morocco reaching the semi finals was an epic achievement. He could have stayed back congratulated all of them and then thanked the fans and left. Instead he tried to make the moment about him. I wouldn't be surprised if the camera guy following him down the tunnel was orchestrated by his PR team as a weird way to generate sympathy. 

 

 

 

Sorry, you clearly don’t know what you are talking about when you mention Kobe and MJ in that way. Both were enormous ego’s and even bullies to certain extent. They managed all they managed in the sport due to that ruthlessness. Let’s not re-write history. 
 

Also, people do everything to find the faults in stars. That is a weird obsession. Imagine being criticized for being distraught at a dream being broken. 
 

Never thought I’d defend Cristiano, but some of you lot are weird.

[Kimbo]

Sport is theatre, it’s never just been about who’s a good player and who’s a bad one, personality has always mattered. We like someone to root for and someone to root against. Unless Ronaldo is banging in the goals for your team there’s not much reason to like him IMO, and remaining neutral on such a big name seems boring.

[rgk_lfc]

13 minutes ago, Flip said:

 

Sorry, you clearly don’t know what you are talking about when you mention Kobe and MJ in that way. Both were enormous ego’s and even bullies to certain extent. They managed all they managed in the sport due to that ruthlessness. Let’s not re-write history. 
 

Also, people do everything to find the faults in stars. That is a weird obsession. Imagine being criticized for being distraught at a dream being broken. 
 

Never thought I’d defend Cristiano, but some of you lot are weird.

 

That is precisely the point. They were huge egos, bullies even, but when they stepped away, did it more graciously. 

 

I understand the pain of dream being broken. But whatever be the case, however big your ego is,  you can show a basic level of grace. 

 

One can admire his absolute desire to win and at the same time criticize him for being a twat for the way he behaves when he loses. You talk as if they are mutually exclusive emotions. 

 

[Flip]

25 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

That is precisely the point. They were huge egos, bullies even, but when they stepped away, did it more graciously. 

 

I understand the pain of dream being broken. But whatever be the case, however big your ego is,  you can show a basic level of grace. 

 

One can admire his absolute desire to win and at the same time criticize him for being a twat for the way he behaves when he loses. You talk as if they are mutually exclusive emotions. 

 

Kobe had a whole season where his team had to basically take farewell. Whole season all about him. Barely graceful that...

[rgk_lfc]

27 minutes ago, Flip said:

Kobe had a whole season where his team had to basically take farewell. Whole season all about him. Barely graceful that...

 

Ok fine, you win. Kobe was a bad example.  I am sure through the annals of sports there will be plenty of examples of players who showed overwhelming desire to win but a modicum of grace when they were disappointed or stepping away. 

 

The original point still stands. One can admire Ronaldo for his footballing prowess, commitment to fitness, craft and laugh at him and make fun of him at his lack of grace when he loses. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by rgk_lfc

[Collage]

1 hour ago, gbandit said:

Are people really making out like he’s shit though? I thought everyone is pretty much in agreement that he’s one of the top five footballers to ever play the game even if they dislike him 

I don’t think he’s in the top 5. Possibly in the top 10

[Kid Icarus]

Ronaldo's greatest personal achievement was being part of the whole Messi v Ronaldo thing imo. Remarkable player who achieved a huge amount, but being compared with Messi has always been ridiculous, a massive compliment to Ronaldo, and a big overstatement of his talents. 

[Jaqen]

9 minutes ago, Collage said:

I don’t think he’s in the top 5. Possibly in the top 10

 

Definitely top 5 man howay. Best player in champions league history and his goal record is obscene. 

 

People rave about how good Haaland has been this upto now but he'd need 42 goals a season for the next 13 years to catch Ronaldo. Him and Messi sort of normalised ridiculous numbers each season that it was kinda taken for granted. 

[Collage]

6 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

 

Definitely top 5 man howay. Best player in champions league history and his goal record is obscene. 

 

People rave about how good Haaland has been this upto now but he'd need 42 goals a season for the next 13 years to catch Ronaldo. Him and Messi sort of normalised ridiculous numbers each season that it was kinda taken for granted. 

He’s obviously been a great goal scorer but there’s Maradona, Messi, Pele, Ronaldo 9, Zidane, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Ronaldinho…he’s amongst the latter mentioned, probably around 6th-7th for me.

[Ketsbaia]

Fucking Morocco man 

 

Hopefully it's a France-Argentina final, the only one worthy, but the way this tournament is going it's probably Croatia v Morocco.

 

Howay Messi

[TheBrownBottle]

Convinced it’s a repeat of 2018 coming, but would fucking love to see Morocco go through 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Ronaldo's greatest personal achievement was being part of the whole Messi v Ronaldo thing imo. Remarkable player who achieved a huge amount, but being compared with Messi has always been ridiculous, a massive compliment to Ronaldo, and a big overstatement of his talents. 

100%.  Cristiano Ronaldo is a gifted player who rose to massive heights through sheer will, dedication and athleticism.  Messi is a footballing genius on a level with Maradona - his talent is completely innate.

 

2 hours ago, Jaqen said:

 

Definitely top 5 man howay. Best player in champions league history and his goal record is obscene. 

 

People rave about how good Haaland has been this upto now but he'd need 42 goals a season for the next 13 years to catch Ronaldo. Him and Messi sort of normalised ridiculous numbers each season that it was kinda taken for granted. 

There’s an argument (which I’d agree with) that Cristian Ronaldo isn’t even the best Ronaldo of all time.

 

The tactical changes which came into the game over the last two decades - particularly the role of the lone centre forward - has meant that centre forwards have suddenly started getting goal records which look like those from when the offside law changed in the 1920s.  Every good centre forward now gets 50+ international goals, and plenty have goal averages miles ahead of those just a generation ago.  While I do think that the game improves technically generation by generation, it doesn’t improve to that sort of degree.  C Ronaldo was at the apex of those centre forwards for several years - he’s probably a top ten players of time candidate, but probably not top five.  You can see from the likes of Haaland what a superb centre forward can do in the modern game. 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Ronaldo's greatest personal achievement was being part of the whole Messi v Ronaldo thing imo. Remarkable player who achieved a huge amount, but being compared with Messi has always been ridiculous, a massive compliment to Ronaldo, and a big overstatement of his talents. 

 

Ronaldo hasnt been able to maintain his game endurance the way Messi has. Ronaldo to his credit has been able to be 2 or 3 different players in his career, Messi has pretty much been one. Neither is better than the other, there's arguments why both could be seen as better than the other. I still think peak Ronaldo matches peak Messi, in entirely different ways, and maybe Ronaldo has had more than one peak? Maybe thats horseshit. I think its unfair to say his greatest personal achievement is being part of Messi v Ronaldo, he didnt create that, "we" did. It is sad to see a bit of a clamour from him in recent years to justify his "greatness" in the whole Ronaldo v Messi universe. He neednt. 

 

We should all disavow the whole Messi v Ronaldo circus. I cant think over any time in history Ive read about where this kind of weird comparison has happened in football. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Super Duper Branko Strupar