Tottenham Hotspur 4-1 Newcastle United (10/12/23)

[Kid Icarus]

Yeah the bit about Trippier is incredibly wrong like 

[Smal]

16 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

he's far more than just a dead ball specialist

 

https://markstats.club/epl-players-23-24/

 

(xThreat is an open play measurement of how a player moves the ball to a more dangerous area of the field by either pass or carry)

 

Even when Trippier is having a tricky patch it's really clear to see why he plays every minute he's available btw. He is by far the most effective build-up player in the league. Basically the player Liverpool fans wish Trent was. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Smal

[Minhosa]

16 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

What changes is the fact that the players who faced you yesterday aren't absolutely dead on their feet. It's not so much about hypothetical changes to the personnel, goalkeeper aside.

 

I don't agree that with a fully fit squad we definitely beat you, mind. You're an entirely different outfit to the one we truly annihilated last season. Even a half-fit Son is an incredible opponent when he's full of confidence. 

 

You are wrong about Tripps, incidentally. He's been mostly exceptional defensively; he's far more than just a dead ball specialist. 

He also coped with Mbappe twice in recent months to the point where Mbappe had the hump because he got nowt off him.

 

Can only assume from that @leffe186post that Trippier is a better player now than he was when he left Spurs because he's much more to us than that imho.

 

I think Spurs will be real contenders next year and I really like the Aussie but I'm not sure you can win the PL playing that way. There's too many good teams that can catch you out and sit in imho.

 

Great to watch though and thoroughly deserved their win yesterday.

[Bondedcrown]

1 hour ago, leffe186 said:

Has the smoke cleared? Hope the below isn’t too cunty, apologies if it is.

 

It’s what most people were saying. You got into the CL arguably a year too early and are paying the price. Don’t think it’s fair to blame Eddie Howe, beyond maybe recognizing that your style of play is going to take its toll anyway. Maybe getting the subs wrong but even then who knows how fit the guys coming back actually are, or if you are now down to guys on the bench he really doesn’t trust to do a job? I feel like he knows that better than anyone.

 

I think now you’re seeing what we saw with Trippier. He was always terrific on dead balls and general delivery going forward, but at the top level would get found wanting defensively against the best. Now he’s a few years on and playing more games than he should, and it’s the same thing. I feel like Howe relies on Trippier a lot in general play and that’s why he was played more than he should have been even when you had cover. Now you don’t have cover, and an unfit Son is able to take the piss.

 

There was some of this in the thread - although some people did push back. We’re good. We really are. Sure, we leave ourselves open at times but that’s the way we play. Genuine question here - if you have a full squad what changes? Pope obviously, Botman at the back, any other defensive changes? Burn for Schar? Bruno starts, Gordon too, then what? Tonali for Miley and Barnes or Willock for Almirón? Maybe four or five changes? Genuine question. Then we get a full squad as well. Our two best players from the unbeaten team (Van Der Ven and Maddison) and then Bentancur replaces Sarr. Both of us have good benches. I don’t think you roll us over. It would be closer of course. Which brings me to…

 

There was a lot of this in the thread, and some push back as well. Even Stifler put his hands up. You had a couple of really good chances you didn’t score, absolutely. You get those. Then we get all ours too. Seems fair. So, 9-3?
 

4-1 seems entirely fair. xG agrees, for what that’s worth.

 

 

Vicario made a funny face at Wilson. He said afterwards he deserved respect. I think the root of this may have been Wilson taking the piss out of Richarlison on his podcast or whatever he does. I stand to be corrected but on the face of it that doesn’t reflect well on Wilson. Don’t really know much about it though so happy for someone to tell me different.

I can bet he didn't just make a face? If you play football you know he said something as did Pickford on Wednesday!

[The College Dropout]

@leffe186 nobody made fun of Richarlison on the podcast. Michail Antonio said Richarlison took off his top 3 times in a row when he scored and each time, the goal was ruled offside by VAR. If Antonio was Richarlison he wouldn't have taken off the top after the first time and definitely not for a 3rd time. He wasn't really making fun of Richarlison but it was funny. But it was Antonio not Wilson. 

 

So Vicario was just being a bit of a prick.

 

Overall, we were thoroughly outplayed and deservedly beaten. Could've been 6-3 on another day. A 3 or 4 goal defeat was deserved.

 

If both sides are fully fit - we could still easily lose but of course it would be a closer game.

 

I've never written off Spurs. I thought you would have a good season before a ball was kicked and always thought you would challenge for the top 4-5. No European football is massive. You've made some good signings and the coach looks good.

[gbandit]

17 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

I'm really relaxed about this whole thing, why?

 

- Howe has shown already a brilliant ability to turn around poor runs of form. He will again.

- We're another weekend closer to January.

- We're another weekend closer to getting some key figures like Botman, Willock etc back.

- We've just been howked off two much fresher teams - no Europe and nowhere near as many miles on their legs this season.

- We've got through another game without losing any other key players.

- We've got lots of the season to go and lots of time to right these wrongs.

 

I guess a huge part of this is about personal context imho. I'm still massively grateful of the takeover, still believe we are years ahead of where we could reasonably expect the squad to be and have to back the owners to get most of the calls right, which they have done to date.

 

With that wider context, I can overlook a Trippier mistake, Lascelles poor show or a tired Schar having a rare off game much more easily.

 

I'm still one of those rarities looking to get to 40 points tbph, anything else at this stage is a bonus.

 

I'm happy to sit back and enjoy the ride. This was never meant to be easy and I'm happy for that too. Nothing worth achieving ever is.

 

It's weeks like this that will make any success, if or when it comes, taste much sweeter.

 

On to Milan.

 

Imagine saying that a few short years ago?

This

[Kanji]

A half fit or fully fit Son is one of the best attackers in the PL. This season’s Tottenham at full pelt is really deadly going forward and has some very good pieces in midfield. Ange seems a top bloke and humble at that, making this season’s team all then more likeable imho. I’m seeing a lot of the same with Spurs and Villa this season as I saw with us with Howe after we finally won at Leeds 2 seasons ago.  He’s turning disinterested, written off players and building a real team mentality, and where I’d say both Spurs and Villa benefit are the baseline are much higher than where we started. If you can fine tune Douglas Luiz, Bentacour, Pedro Poro, Lucas Digne and Son you’re going to be OK. 
 

A fully fit Newcastle v fully fit Tottenham both in equal form would be a slug fest. Could go either way. 

[ohmelads]

1 hour ago, leffe186 said:

There was some of this in the thread - although some people did push back. We’re good. We really are. Sure, we leave ourselves open at times but that’s the way we play. Genuine question here - if you have a full squad what changes? Pope obviously, Botman at the back, any other defensive changes? Burn for Schar? Bruno starts, Gordon too, then what? Tonali for Miley and Barnes or Willock for Almirón? Maybe four or five changes? Genuine question. Then we get a full squad as well. Our two best players from the unbeaten team (Van Der Ven and Maddison) and then Bentancur replaces Sarr. Both of us have good benches. I don’t think you roll us over. It would be closer of course. Which brings me to…

 

On your question above, I guess you'd have to look at our performances full strength, although we are 16th in the away league table. Goes without saying we'd have a much fresher, more rested and rotated group rather than the exhausted XI here that also shipped three at Everton days earlier. Spurs have had injuries but not on the same scale for the same length of time, nor have they had a group of death in Europe in tandem with it. I get that Spurs fans are excited by a good win at home, and that's fair enough, but I'd suggest looking at our Everton game for context before you get too carried away. 

 

With both at full strength, I think sensible fans of either club would agree it'd be a tight contest; after all that's why both sets viewed it as a six pointer. Newcastle certainly arrived at this game in a more weary state than Spurs who have had a bench, have been able to rotate far more and have played far less football. Many of us feared a repeat of the Everton game as is evident all over the forum from sensible posters. You'll always find idiotic posts on either forum. 

 

As for Spurs, we'll see by the end of the season how good they are I suppose. Would not ending in the top 4 be considered a failure? Considering our injuries, cup draws at Man City and Man U and the group we've had in Europe, I'm genuinely surprised we're only 4 pts off Spurs as it stands. 

[Kanji]

29 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

I'm really relaxed about this whole thing, why?

 

- Howe has shown already a brilliant ability to turn around poor runs of form. He will again.

- We're another weekend closer to January.

- We're another weekend closer to getting some key figures like Botman, Willock etc back.

- We've just been howked off two much fresher teams - no Europe and nowhere near as many miles on their legs this season.

- We've got through another game without losing any other key players.

- We've got lots of the season to go and lots of time to right these wrongs.

 

I guess a huge part of this is about personal context imho. I'm still massively grateful of the takeover, still believe we are years ahead of where we could reasonably expect the squad to be and have to back the owners to get most of the calls right, which they have done to date.

 

With that wider context, I can overlook a Trippier mistake, Lascelles poor show or a tired Schar having a rare off game much more easily.

 

I'm still one of those rarities looking to get to 40 points tbph, anything else at this stage is a bonus.

 

I'm happy to sit back and enjoy the ride. This was never meant to be easy and I'm happy for that too. Nothing worth achieving ever is.

 

It's weeks like this that will make any success, if or when it comes, taste much sweeter.

 

On to Milan.

 

Imagine saying that a few short years ago?

100% with you here. 
 

After initial gut annoyances I tend to default to this. I would feel differently if we had an entire fit squad with minimal injuries but we all knew we’d have a ton more fixtures and on paper the team that opened the season missing only willock and Longstaff (and had they been fit) showed that we could be capable of something special if we had the depth for it. Our current injury situation is unprecedented. 

[Wullie]

Because of the injury situation and because he's looked the part, it's just glossed over that Miley is now starting every game, twice a week, in arguably the most important position, against the best teams in the world at 17 when he's not even had a loan before. Like, that's mental. 

 

We look a bit naive in midfield recently? Never!

[Jaqen]

The fact that Son was 'half fit' and looked wayyyy fresher than any of our lot tells you all you need to know about the fatigue of our squad. 

[TaylorJ_01]

8 minutes ago, Wullie said:

Because of the injury situation and because he's looked the part, it's just glossed over that Miley is now starting every game, twice a week, in arguably the most important position, against the best teams in the world at 17 when he's not even had a loan before. Like, that's mental. 

 

We look a bit naive in midfield recently? Never!

 

Agreed. I do think that's the key position to fix, and it's by no means his fault.

 

The absence that's screwed us the most is Tonali, and it was entirely avoidable which makes it all the more annoying. We're absolutely desperate for a creative and/or goal-scoring player in the middle of the park. Obviously Longstaff would help but is also out.

 

Even though he wasn't exactly flying, if Tonali wasn't out the last couple months would look quite different in my opinion.

 

All credit to Miley, it's not his fault we're relying on him and he's done absolutely a better job than we could have imagined. 

[Wullie]

Exactly, I hope nobody takes that as a dig at him, he's been excellent and God knows what we would have done without him stepping up. But when a team like Spurs starts to tear through your midfield on their own patch, you really want some experience in there at some point, not just a kid who's still got homework to do when he gets home. He hasn't got a clue what to do in that situation because he's never been in it before.

[The College Dropout]

Aye not having Tonali has been huge.

[TaylorJ_01]

And that's exactly what Howe identified and invested heavily in fixing. But shit happens.

[Hanshithispantz]

2 hours ago, leffe186 said:

There was some of this in the thread - although some people did push back. We’re good. We really are. Sure, we leave ourselves open at times but that’s the way we play. Genuine question here - if you have a full squad what changes?

It's not just the players on paper, we cannot keep our intesity up which is our whole thing. We've seen Tottenham, Everton*, and Bournemouth all completely overun us in all areas of the pitch within the past few weeks.

 

The swuad being down to it's bones has had a pretty obvious effect like 

 

*Everton let us have the ball more than they should tbh, when they pressed us we were sloppy.

 

Outside of the rare, high profile clanger (such as last 2 games), Trippier has been excellent defensively. He looked susceptible to being done by pace early on when he arrived but he seems to position himself a lot better now.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Hanshithispantz

[Lush Vlad]

@leffe186 I thought Wilson was daft to moan on like he did after the game. Should have just said handbags on the pitch and it stays there. Certainly think it’s to do with Richarlison copping a strop on social media about the Wilson and Antonio comments. 
 

Absolute revisionist nonsense from Spurs fans (not you) about the comments on the podcast, mind. They’ve been massively blown out of proportion. 
 

I remember listening to it and it seemed to revolve around a bit of a laugh and a joke around him taking his shirt off all the while and then VAR subsequently ruling the goal out, due to him being offside. I think they even followed up with saying about Brazil, world cup apps etc. Even saying it was a bit of banter. 

 

People really do find anything to get offended and upset about these days. Wilson included. Who got upset because someone was ‘winning the wrong way’.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Lush Vlad

[leffe186]

37 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

@leffe186 I thought Wilson was daft to moan on like he did after the game. Should have just said handbags on the pitch and it stays there. Certainly think it’s to do with Richarlison copping a strop on social media about the Wilson and Antonio comments. 
 

Absolute revisionist nonsense from Spurs fans (not you) about the comments on the podcast, mind. They’ve been massively blown out of proportion. 
 

I remember listening to it and it seemed to revolve around a bit of a laugh and a joke around him taking his shirt off all the while and then VAR subsequently ruling the goal out, due to him being offside. I think they even followed up with saying about Brazil, world cup apps etc. Even saying it was a bit of banter. 

 

People really do find anything to get offended and upset about these days. Wilson included. Who got upset because someone was ‘winning the wrong way’.

 

 

 

Yeah makes sense, didn’t see the podcast or what Wilson said after the game, just the clip and the funny face

[Lush Vlad]

Wilson came out talking about respect, the keeper messing about and pulling faces, winning the right way, or words to that effect.  

 

Seemed petty as fuck to even mention it, TBH.  We just got our arses handed to us and put in our worst performance of the season and he's moaning about a keeper taking the piss a bit   

[wormy]

No match cam?

[Skeletor]

59 minutes ago, wormy said:

No match cam?

 

Did they put out the extended lowlights?

[wormy]

4 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

 

Did they put out the extended lowlights?

 

Just the 2 minutes on YouTube. That'll do for me.

[Skeletor]

Just now, wormy said:

 

Just the 2 minutes on YouTube. That'll do for me.

 

2 minutes too many.

[LFEE]

4 hours ago, Lush Vlad said:

Wilson came out talking about respect, the keeper messing about and pulling faces, winning the right way, or words to that effect.  

 

Seemed petty as fuck to even mention it, TBH.  We just got our arses handed to us and put in our worst performance of the season and he's moaning about a keeper taking the piss a bit   

He didn’t bring it up or even moan about it. The interviewer dug for an answer and even thanked Wilson for answering the question honestly. Wilson made it clear ultimately it was nothing and they (both) move on from it.

 

Talk about Chinese Whispers with this debate 😆

[Lush Vlad]

8 minutes ago, LFEE said:

He didn’t bring it up or even moan about it. The interviewer dug for an answer and even thanked Wilson for answering the question honestly. Wilson made it clear ultimately it was nothing and they (both) move on from it.

 

Talk about Chinese Whispers with this debate 😆

I listened to the clip. He did moan about it and then say about we’re grown men, we move on at the end. But that doesn’t really take away from the fact he was just whinging about it and I thought he came across poorly in doing so. Just don’t answer the question.