Group C: 1. England, 2. Denmark, 3. Slovenia (Q), 4. Serbia

[Cronky]

I'm inclined to think that if Foden is poor, the problem will be with the set up rather than his ability.

 

I'd move Bellingham back to partner Rice, and have Foden as the number 10. 

 

To be honest, I wasn't completely happy with Bellingham's performance tonight. He's a great player, but he sometimes slowed the game down with his tendency to look around for something spectacular to do. 

[BlazeT44]

58 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Why does ‘Jordy’ Pickford have little boy legs? 

 

To match his little boy arms

[OoOGazOoO]

Probably been said but that second half was CRYING out for Gordon. Foden was bang average and we needed someone to get behind their defence and stretch them and cause problems and win us free kicks higher up the pitch = perfect for Gordon!

[Holloway]

18 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

I mean it’s your opinion so I can hardly dispute that

 

 

 

Ok then, how highly do you rate him on the world stage ?

[Doctor Zaius]

Just to add to the Foden debate, he's played his entire senior career for one club, under one manager, playing a certain way. He's had 0 experience at club level playing in a different system, under a different manager. 

 

You can point to his 30 or so caps, but sometimes players just aren't adaptable, or take a while to adapt. It's the reason why transfers don't always go right essentially. Probably also part of the reason Scholes wasn't particularly good at international level. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

3 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Reckon Mainoo is a better option than TAA next to Rice. Should be Bellingham though, with Foden at number ten and Gordon or Eze on the left 

I honestly reckon Wharton would be even better, but I’m getting sick of this shoehorning players in for England. It should be about the balance of the team, not having the "best 11 individuals" on the pitch.

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Rice 6, Bellingham 8, Foden 10. It's so obvious it's painful. 

 

And Kane must not drop deep and take Fodens space and leave CF empty. All it takes is a disciplined, ambitious manager.

 

Why he's so adamant to shoehorn TAA in is beyond me. If he's not good enough to start RB he doesn't start, simple. 

 

It's so obvious and yet Bellingham was the match-winner and arguably MOTM in the 10 position.

 

I dunno what the solution is but I do think we're having a different debate if Foden isn't getting the absolute fucking basics wrong. 

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 minute ago, BlazeT44 said:

 

To match his little boy arms

😂 sounds like a good punchline. Was genuinely curious about the boyish (yet to develop) shape of his legs. Plus think he’s been waxing. 

[Collage]

Why should Kane drop deep? It’s always been like that under Southgate. I don’t get it.

[McCormick]

It doesn’t necessarily have to be Gordon, Eze would have been a decent option as he actually takes on players.

 

Based on this performance, I’m hoping we can Man Utd our way to a way to a Euro win.

[BlazeT44]

My ratings:

Pickford 7

Walker 6

Stones 6

Guehi 7

Trippier 6

Alexander-Arnold 5

Rice 7

Bellingham 9

Saka 8

Foden 4

Kane 5.5

Gallagher 6.5

Bowen 6

Mainoo N/A

 

Thought Foden and TAA were shoehorned into positions they shouldn't be playing in.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

It's so obvious and yet Bellingham was the match-winner and arguably MOTM in the 10 position.

 

I dunno what the solution is but I do think we're having a different debate if Foden isn't getting the absolute fucking basics wrong. 

 

Bellingham as an 8 doesn't stop him making that run in to the box, though. And even if Bellingham isn't there it doesn't mean that goal int scored that way. The goal was made by Walker and Saka, and the run, obviously. But that run is tactical, not individual.

 

Bellingham is an unreal box to box midfielder. Yes he's good in those positions, but starting.him.deeper doesn't stop him being there at all.

 

Imo.

[Kid Icarus]

34 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

 

Beckham was at least a midfielder. I think there's just a massive difference between moving defenders higher up the pitch in terms of positioning and how they receive the ball from when you are used to playing to a defensive line and seeing the whole game Infront of you and generally receiving the ball facing the opponents. 

 

The reason I make that comparison is because beyond them both having wands for right feet, I definitely remember pundits always going on about how Beckham would move from RM to CM when he got older, but that he didn't have the know how to do it yet. Then he never had the know how and everyone just kind of quietly accepted that he's an RM.

 

Whereas with Trent, that position is gone and he's not a great RB or CM in a 433. He actually reminds me of a RM playing at RB or CM. He'd have been incredible in the 90s at RM in a 442 

 

 

Edited June 16 by Kid Icarus

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

1 minute ago, McCormick said:

It doesn’t necessarily have to be Gordon, Eze would have been a decent option as he actually takes on players.

 

Based on this performance, I’m hoping we can Man Utd our way to a way to a Euro win.

Or Palmer, it was just screaming out for someone to make their full backs worry and stretch the game. Instead it stayed the same everything going down the right and both of Serbia's wingers and fullback being parked on our 18 yard line for most of the second half.

[Dr Jinx]

I think Gordon will get a chance soon and make Southgates mind up for him. The game was crying out for him from about 60 mins in the second half.

 

It will be the making of Kane as well as Gordon will go to the line and cut back repeatedly.

[leffe186]

7 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Fair enough regarding the CM position, but if Gallagher or Mainoo are in there then it only emphasises the lunacy (imo) that is calling us the favourites. Not only due to how dysfunctional (Trent)/unimpressive (others) the CM is - but we don't have a left-back either.  

 

Southgate can't leave Foden out, absolutely no way, he'd by lynched. After that insipid individual performance I'd be trebucheting the lad back to Manchester personally, but there's absolutely no way the England manager would be allowed to leave the Prem's player of the season out. Nor should he; he has to to do everything he can to find a way to make that work. 

Yup, we shouldn’t be considered favourites, but that’s because of the defence and lack of a LB. There’s an argument for Bellingham Rice and Foden in the middle, of course. Just…not TAA. And I think a water-carrier that runs and runs can do a job, as Gallagher just showed.

 

I don’t give the slightest shit who Southgate leaves out if it makes the team better. I suspect the Venn diagram of people who think England are favourites and who think Southgate should be lynched if he leaves Foden out has a really big intersection in the middle. Leaving Greaves out was a big deal, and if it didn’t work Ramsey’s head would have been on a pike.

I don’t fully follow you - you say you’d personally trebuchet him back, but you also say there’s no way Southgate should leave him out. That’s not fair. Southgate needs to make the best team he can. If that means Foden on the bench then so be it.

[vicente_14]

Take the win but always seems to be such a difficult watch when it doesnt need to be. 

 

No left footed left back creates an obvious issue. 
 

Thought Trent was quite sloppy and casual and would prefer to see Wharton sat in there playing quick one and two touch passes, being disciplined and setting the tempo.

 

Thought the second half was in need of Gordon on the left to inject some pace and energy and Palmer could have added some confidence/composure on the ball if he had replaced Saka instead of Bowen.

 

Think Kane should have been replaced too, Watkins pace would perhaps have pushed the defence back a little further.

 

Still, no doubt more of the same in a few days, Gareth shoehorning his favourites in and England stumbling on unconvincingly.

[Pata]

7 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

It's so obvious and yet Bellingham was the match-winner and arguably MOTM in the 10 position.

 

I dunno what the solution is but I do think we're having a different debate if Foden isn't getting the absolute fucking basics wrong. 

 

Bellingham would excel deeper too and would be 100% better option than TAA there, would be making most of the same runs too. Would also allow Foden to play in his natural position and a proper LW in his natural position.

[Pata]

Real Madrid paid 100m for a box-to-box Bellingham and IMO played him further up out of necessity due to Benzema leaving and them not really having that many quality attacking players. He would be just as good playing next to Rice.

[Yorkie]

13 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

Bellingham as an 8 doesn't stop him making that run in to the box, though. And even if Bellingham isn't there it doesn't mean that goal int scored that way. The goal was made by Walker and Saka, and the run, obviously. But that run is tactical, not individual.

 

Bellingham is an unreal box to box midfielder. Yes he's good in those positions, but starting.him.deeper doesn't stop him being there at all.

 

Imo.

 

6 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Bellingham would excel deeper too and would be 100% better option than TAA there, would be making most of the same runs too. Would also allow Foden to play in his natural position and a proper LW in his natural position.

 

Tbf my team would have Bellingham in CM role as well. I'm just recoiling at the inferences of Southgate being [insert vitriol] because he should obviously be doing X; when it's not actually that obvious. Incidentally, @Shearergol, this is an example of my general position on Southgate: not that he's brilliant; rather that the criticism is OTT/unjustified. 

 

Bellingham hardly played like a typical number 10 tonight anyway, imo. He patrolled the middle column and drifted wide too. It looks to me like Southgate has identified him as the key for England and so he's putting him in the position which makes him the most impactful. That's 10 rather than 8. I think there's sound logic in that; the only problem is that Foden - also a 10 - has to make way. LW isn't natural to him but he needs to be better than absolutely fucking shit before we're levelling the dysfunction squarely at the manager.

[Sifu]

Another thing to add in defence of Southgate is he is not solely responsible for the style of play. From what I read a while back, Steve Holland seems to have a bit of a big say in what we do in an attacking sense so it's as much on him as it is on Southgate; seems to me that Southgate puts a lot of trust in Holland that he doesn't really question much.

 

Might be revisionism on my part, bias or whatever but England looked more of a cohesive unit in an attacking sense when Jones was part of the setup.

 

 

[The Prophet]

34 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

It's so obvious and yet Bellingham was the match-winner and arguably MOTM in the 10 position.

 

I dunno what the solution is but I do think we're having a different debate if Foden isn't getting the absolute fucking basics wrong. 

 

The same happened in one of the warm up friendlies too.

[huss9]

Southgate just doesnt learn or develop as a manager.

 

protect a 1-0 , rather than try and go get a second. its not as though we were playing a pacy counter attacking team.

 

play foden in his best position or dont play him at all. its like scholes/lampard/gerrard all over gain but at least this time we have decent alternatives.

 

saka was gassed by half time. desperate for a pair of fresh legs on both wings.

 

and in gordon eze and palmer you've got 3 kids in form and full of self belief.

 

we were crying out for gordon to replace foden on the left.

 

just like against  italy in the last final - we had so much talent on the bench they would have shit themselves had we brought them on.

 

but we scraped a 1-0 so hopefully southgate lets the handbrake off now.

 

glad lineker  mentioned some of southgate's negative traits havent changed.

 

 

 

Edited June 16 by huss9

[Cf]

9 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

 

Tbf my team would have Bellingham in CM role as well. I'm just recoiling at the inferences of Southgate being [insert vitriol] because he should obviously be doing X; when it's not actually that obvious. Incidentally, @Shearergol, this is an example of my general position on Southgate: not that he's brilliant; rather that the criticism is OTT/unjustified. 

 

Bellingham hardly played like a typical number 10 tonight anyway, imo. He patrolled the middle column and drifted wide too. It looks to me like Southgate has identified him as the key for England and so he's putting him in the position which makes him the most impactful. That's 10 rather than 8. I think there's sound logic in that; the only problem is that Foden - also a 10 - has to make way. LW isn't natural to him but he needs to be better than absolutely fucking shit before we're levelling the dysfunction squarely at the manager.

 

If you've got two players who are arguably your best players but they share a position then I think one needs to make way for the other. Especially when the alternative clearly isn't working. Southgate seems unable to make that call. And the problems with the team were obvious before kick off and it borne out pretty much exactly as we expected. 

 

I thought that was a very poor display. We barely threatened then apart from 2 chances with some of the most exciting attacking talent we've had available in a long time. I mean yes we won so how poor could it be really? But he's not been able to get the best out of these players for a while now and it doesn't bode well for the rest of the tournament. 

[Mattoon]

3 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

If you've got two players who are arguably your best players but they share a position then I think one needs to make way for the other. Especially when the alternative clearly isn't working. Southgate seems unable to make that call. And the problems with the team were obvious before kick off and it borne out pretty much exactly as we expected. 

 

I thought that was a very poor display. We barely threatened then apart from 2 chances with some of the most exciting attacking talent we've had available in a long time. I mean yes we won so how poor could it be really? But he's not been able to get the best out of these players for a while now and it doesn't bode well for the rest of the tournament. 

 

Absolutely this, we turn the screw at 1-0 and we easily win 2 or 3-0 but it's back to safety first and not conceding. Such anti-football.