magorific

Everything going for him except pace

In the absence of hard evidence the best any of us can do is make our minds up based on any available facts, plus previous experience of the parties involved, and being human in nature, also clouded no doubt by personal prejudice. Simple fact is I have previous experience of KK going back over 3 decades - I admire him and trust him. I have very little knowledge of Mike Ashley prior to his actions at NUFC, which largely haven't impressed me (partly due to recent events, but also due to less net transfer market spend in 3 windows than the mackems paid for a dodgy keeper) I have knowledge of Dennis Wise going back over several years which leads me to strongly suspect he is a c*** - who's side do you think I'm likely to be sympathetic to? No, actually, in the lack of hard evidence, the best any of us can do is keep some kind of open mind about how to aportion blame. Unfortunately this involves recognizing that Keegan may have acted in his own self-interest, perhaps to the detriment of the club. True. He should have just suffered in silence and waited for Xisco to start scoring the goals to make up for the sale of Michael Owen in January. Saying nowt and maintaining the status quo as was would have been so much better for the club....

Nail on the head. Who do the idiots found us our best signings of the summer? FFS man, Keegans way too loved in these parts. Coloccini was hardly a "find". I'm not saying he's shite, just that he was already well known and often linked with a move to England. Jonas could be a decent legacy of Jimenez, but one decent find doesn't make the guy a transfer guru.

To play devil's advocate, he contributed more at the back end of last season than Duff has in two and a bit years.

Totally agree. I said at the time Beattie would've been the better buy and stand by it. Well, they're a similar build....

According to JK in tonight's Chron, Viduka looks like he needs an op which will rule him out for 6 months....

Agreed. On the pitch, I've seen us in far worse states. The 1988/89 season was grim beyond belief, the play-off final was a nightmare, the season after that was pretty bad (I got nicked away at Hull) and I've never felt more worried than watching us lose 3-0 at Barnsley (it could have been 15-0) under Ossie. But there was still a magic about matchdays back then that made it all so worthwhile.

Forced out my arse. For over a year he received nothing but gushing praise for everything he or any of his appointments did (or in the vast majority of cases simply for the things they didn't do, or were only perceived to have done) by the vast majority of supporters. This was based initially on nothing more than his own claims of club salvation by paying off a debt which became due once he bought the club (which was coincidentally in his own best interests to do), and some pie in the sky notion of becoming the next Arsenal by trying out a managerial structure Arsenal don't employ, spending zero money on transfers, and basically hoping Dennis Wise will be the next Arsene Wenger. Then from January people bought more heavily into the sham because he brought onboard someone the fans trusted, someone who we knew would put the best interests of the club (not the business) first and foremost. Some people bought into it for 3 years up front. How do you expect people to react when that person then walks out after half a year at a potential financial loss to himself and knowing very well he'll be called a quitter? Just shrug and say oh well, it's obviously the fault of this person who we trust, not someone who we put blind faith in but has yet to deliver anything tangible at all, the system is what's important, bring on Gus? Of course people are going to get on SSN with banners, of course people are going protest, or course angry words are going to be spoken and written. But has there been any violence? Has there been any vandalism? Has there been any real trouble at all? No. Yet what does Ashley do at the very first spot of a complaint at his ownership? Does he even try to explain himself and win the supporters back? Does he f***. Completely out of character he gives up straight away. He cries about how big a footy fan he is even though noone knows who he supports, how he's just an ordinary bloke who wanted a bit of fun, and think of the children!!! He was going to plough loads of money into the team year after year honest he was... if only he'd be given the chance... but now sadly he's been forced into giving up his dream and will now have to sell up - well only if he can make a couple of hundred million pounds profit in just over a year like, that's only fair isn't, after all he's dramatically turned round the fortunes of the club by paying off some of a bank loan hasn't he. Wake up and smell the roses. Just like the people who believe they're actually buying something at 70% off, just like the people who rush to the never ending closing down sale, just like the people who bought Sports Direct shares when it floated. You've been had. Harsh but absolutely fair.

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second. You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith. You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run. The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt. I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead. Your final paragraph is just gibberish. Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events. And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them? Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could have had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even have had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster? To me, no. If Ashley allowed his director of football to overrule Deschamps, Terim or Zico on transfers, it would be a disaster, yes. So no decent retort then? Nice one. WTF? I am challenging the validity of Ashley's long-term plan. That's my retort. Where's yours? How is that a retort? All you've done is made an assumption and stated it as though its a feature of the structure and is part of the plan, which is quite fankly rubbish. Question for you - can you tell me the exact circumstances of Keegans departure steering clear of hear'say and what you read in the papers? Where did Wise undermine him? Why? How has he undermined him? etc... Do you have first hand view of the events?? Clearly (and I'm not referring to your tenuous grasp of grammar and spelling here) you don't know the meaning of the word retort. That aside, yes, I am making assumptions. An assumption based on the evidence as I see it - EXACTLY as you are doing re Ashley's supposed "masterplan". An interpretation of the evidence which is, quite fankly, rubbish. Haha, you pendantic sad b****** - thats the second/third person today who's pointed out poor english - whoopy-f***ing-doo, poor english on an internet message board - how wrong are my priorities, i best ring my mum and dad up and tell them they did a bad job. You still dont get it do you - you have a go at me for poor english (yes it did hit a sore point) and yet you fail to see the massive gap in your logic - ie the level of protests were justified based purely on assumptions from inconsistent evidence written in the newspapers, do you actually know the full circumstance in which Keegan didnt get the players he was promised or are you assuming that Wise wasnt interested from the start and had no intention of purchasing them? Thats the stick you're beating them with and you dont even know if its 100% true. My "assumptions" on Ashleys masterplan was that he was looking to invest in younger players from all around the globe for smaller wages with the aim of making them stars for the club, reducing the clubs inflated wage bills whilst not compromising the qulaity. I fail to see why that is an assumption? i dont need evididence - it WAS the way the club wanted to go - how you can deny that is beyond me. Firstly, re your English, boo fuckin' hoo. If you challenge someone on semantics (eg the meaning of "retort"), you're asking for trouble. Secondly, what were fans left to do other than make assumptions? Not a word came from Ashley and co to counter the obvious interpretation: that Keegan walked having been sold short by the board (Wise, Jimenez, whoever). The main difference between us is that I acknowledge I am making assumptions, whereas you somehow don't see that YOU are making an assumption in believing that Ashley's masterplan did NOT include the fundamental, fatal flaw of authorising his part-time director of football to overrule his manager on transfers.

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second. You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith. You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run. The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt. I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead. Your final paragraph is just gibberish. Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events. And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them? Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could have had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even have had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster? To me, no. If Ashley allowed his director of football to overrule Deschamps, Terim or Zico on transfers, it would be a disaster, yes. So no decent retort then? Nice one. WTF? I am challenging the validity of Ashley's long-term plan. That's my retort. Where's yours? How is that a retort? All you've done is made an assumption and stated it as though its a feature of the structure and is part of the plan, which is quite fankly rubbish. Question for you - can you tell me the exact circumstances of Keegans departure steering clear of hear'say and what you read in the papers? Where did Wise undermine him? Why? How has he undermined him? etc... Do you have first hand view of the events?? Clearly (and I'm not referring to your tenuous grasp of grammar and spelling here) you don't know the meaning of the word retort. That aside, yes, I am making assumptions. An assumption based on the evidence as I see it - EXACTLY as you are doing re Ashley's supposed "masterplan". An interpretation of the evidence which is, quite fankly, rubbish.

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second. You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith. You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run. The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt. I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead. Your final paragraph is just gibberish. Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events. And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them? Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could have had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even have had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster? To me, no. If Ashley allowed his director of football to overrule Deschamps, Terim or Zico on transfers, it would be a disaster, yes. So no decent retort then? Nice one. WTF? I am challenging the validity of Ashley's long-term plan. That's my retort. Where's yours?

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second. You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith. You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run. The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt. I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead. Your final paragraph is just gibberish. Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events. And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them? Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could have had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even have had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster? To me, no. If Ashley allowed his director of football to overrule Deschamps, Terim or Zico on transfers, it would be a disaster, yes.

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second. You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith. You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run. The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt. I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead. Your final paragraph is just gibberish.

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title? Thanks. I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is. Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did. We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did. At a time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic. Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. EDIT: another who's proved my point - thinking with their hearts not there heads- by that token of sentimentality Shepherad et al are untouchable in your eyes as there achievments HAVE to be paralleled with Keegans. Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title? Thanks. I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is. Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did. We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did. At a time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic. Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. EDIT: another who's proved my point - thinking with their hearts not there heads- by that token of sentimentality Shepherad et al are untouchable in your eyes as there achievments HAVE to be paralleled with Keegans. Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title? Thanks. I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is. Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did. We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did. At a time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic. Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. And my major point about your major point was that Ashley's was NOT a "good, much needed long-term plan" - because his plan was to let Dennis Wise overrule our manager on transfers.

How about someone who didn't nearly relegate a team five times stronger than ours in his last job, six years ago. Someone who's biggest achievement in the last fifteen years is more impressive than winning seven games out of twenty six with Boro. We've got a better manager running our academy for f*** sake. To be fair, he had to sell Ferdinand, Keane and Bowyer before the start of the season, and Woodgate, Bowyer and Fowler in the January

Do the names Hamilton, Brady, Serrant, Georgiadis, Perez, Andersson and Guivarc'h - or the words "attack, attack, attack" - mean anything to you?

What, we will have "lost out dramatically" by getting rid of a bloke who thinks a part-time director of football with f*** all qualifications for the job should sign players against our manager's wishes??? Yes, we're in a mess, but it's of Ashley's making.

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title? Thanks. I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is. Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did. We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did. At a time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic. Spot on. Of course KK is a flawed personality, but as flawed as the decision to appoint Wise as a director of football with the power (which KK HADN'T been informed about) to take unilateral decisions on transfers? Nowhere f***ing near.

WUM?

When you say "so long" you actually mean 10 days (?), right? Were you one of non exisiting people who have alway hated the clubs secrecy and hated that the media knew 'nothing'? If so, then i suppose 10 days IS a long time, then again, for me i was happy to wait - especially as we dont know the nature of the meeting that Ahley had with keegan and especially as how Ashley was on 'business' at the time. Still doesnt equate to forcing him out, especially after having put in so much of his personal welath into the club, bringing back a hugely popular figure, regenerating the youth system and improving our scouting sytem beyond the realms of the major clubs in the major leagues. He hasnt even been given ONE chance to rectify his one major mistake - which was employing Keegan in the first place. As for your diluted protests - who's to say? Moot point really. Ok, so Mclaren was one of 4 manager i mentioned - although strictly speaking silverware will always been on your permanent record of achievments, not " got a team from second division to near the top of the premier league - with a fair bit of cash". Pedantic i know, but unfortunately true. The bottom line is that he IS part of a group of mediocre managers, any defence of him is defence based purely on personal feelings for the man, becasue someone with equal record at antoerh club wouldnt get a second hearing here, and that isnt subjectivity. As for your final question - it depends on what side you view the argument - if you genuinely believe that Wise hasbeen indermining Keegan from the start and Keegan actually had NO say on the signings then it would be Wise who should of left - and Keegan should of left when he was first undermined as his principles are so strong. But if you view the argument as Keegans targets not fitting into the policy of the club and possibly dragging his heels over the situation forcing Wise to sign players over his head without his authoriy then maybe Keegan was right to leave. As you can see, in both scenarios Keegan doesnt come of favourably so i'd say that for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left and replaced with a manager who could defintiely work within a team structure. There is also a case for Wise becoming an antagonist and him therefore leaving as well. He hasnt even been given ONE chance to rectify his one major mistake - which was employing Keegan in the first place . . ." WTF? You condemn Keegan unreservedly for NOT accepting Wise's input, then conclude by saying Wise could be an "antagonist" and should go as well. WTF? You say the point about diluted protests is "moot", yet the basis of your original argument was that the strength of those very same protests proved NUFC fans are not patient enough. WTF? "improving our scouting sytem beyond the realms of the major clubs in the major leagues . . ." WTF??? We are playing David f***ing Edgar at right-back ffs......................

Oh aye, dont get me wrong i was happy with what keegan was doing - in fact supremeley happy with that way the club was going upto the end of the transfer window- thats not to say that had the window shut under normal circumstance i wouldnt of been lambasting the board for the lack of depth in the squad, becasue i would of. My point is that there seems to be a huge majority of fans who have been thinking with their hearts and not with there heads - they've prioritised the wrong thing in my opinion. As you say, it's no good having the sytems if you dont have someone who can manage the players - well it turns out that Keegan couldnt manage the players becasue he couldnt fit into the system so he leaves. Thats the simple equation. We should of voiced our concerns, voiced our unhappiness at a good start being wasted and politics undermining the fans and the club but thats as far as it shouldof gone, forcing the owner out seems like such a disproportionate reaction. Losing keegan wouldnt of been the end of the world for this club. the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him. The point is that his major managerial achievment was over 15 years ago and the fans have put that sentimentality above the sytem that Ashley and co have tried to input, and for the life of me i cant see why, hence my belief that the fans are thinking with there hearts not their heads. football is a passionate game- but when it comes to deciding the future of your entire club - what your heart says should be a million miles away from what you should actually be doing. Why is wanting to get rid of an owner who said NOTHING, and authorised his club to say NOTHING for so long after KK disappeared so wrong? Had Ashley explained himself, I've no doubt the protests would have been seriously diluted. That isn't my heart talking, it's my head. The FACTS are also that he and his chosen people failed to address several basic necessities in the summer transfer market. As for your stats argument, it falls down - in my view- when you start suggesting his record is no better than that of a manager like McClaren (how does winning the League Cup compare with turning Newcastle from certainties for the old Div 3 into marginally the second best team in the country?). To finish, a question for you: who should have stayed at Newcastle after the end of the transfer window: Keegan or Wise?

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club. On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did. This could and should ultimately result in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them. How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings? Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted. As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont. You really couldnt make it up. Rubbish, frankly. Was there any sign or sound of fans' revolt in the air in the last few weeks of last season? The majority were happy we seemed to be making slow but steady progress under Keegan, with the promise of the squad being significantly - but NOT spectacularly - in the summer. It wasn't. KK felt betrayed. So do the fans. Why would we look to revolt at the end of last season? If you're trying to say that nufc fans would be happy with an owner who has a long term plan for the club with slow steady progress, then what was wrong with Ashley's plan? Putting aside the still unknown circumstances of Keegans departures, what problems did you see with a club who looked to invest in younger players from around the whole of europe and not just the big clubs of the major leagues, looking to develop them and making them stars for the club? I am more than happy to admit i was very dissapointed with the lack of acitvity surrounding this club - however with a club that was rowing in seperate directions i can see, but not understand why we had so little activity. EDIT: The sad fact of this case is that the fans are using the lack of numbers as another stick to beat Ashley with (which they are well within there rights) but are conviniently forgetting that the clubs squad has dramatically improved. Which was more important out the 2? Put it simply, would you rather have a good sized squad with similar quality to last year or would you rather have a similar sizeds squad which was better than last year? I know which is more important - you have to ask yourself if you do and if you do you'll understand where you arguments fall down. Only just logged back on now, so apologies for late reply. Of course there is nothing wrong with a plan to curb over-spending on trophy signings and search for talented youngsters worldwide. But Ashley pursued that plan with men totally ill equipped to follow Arsenal's lead. Dennis f*****g Wise and an ex Chelsea steward ffs. Had he put a Frank Arneson type in to do the job of finding talent, we'd have found some worth having, Keegan would still be here and the fans would be saying nowt. As it is, Ashley's stuck by men who have unearthed precious little in the way of decent young talent (Kadar aside, perhaps) and made one undeniably good senior signing (Gutierrez), while ignoring blatant shortcomings (lack of full-backs, creative midfielders) in a squad that you, bizarrely, claim has been "dramatically" strengthened. That's not to mention that Ashley himself was promising corporate fans a "wow" signing before the close of the transfer window.....

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club. On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did. This could and should ultimately result in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them. How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings? Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted. As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont. You really couldnt make it up. Rubbish, frankly. Was there any sign or sound of fans' revolt in the air in the last few weeks of last season? The majority were happy we seemed to be making slow but steady progress under Keegan, with the promise of the squad being significantly - but NOT spectacularly - in the summer. It wasn't. KK felt betrayed. So do the fans.

David Craig: "It's all over .... er, no it isn't, er yes it is ........."

I heard the same.